How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

[awepittance]

it's kind of a dick move to cut of a part of the penis of your infant child; they have no concept of the whole matter.it's the parents' choice, and the parents' choice alone.

 

if you circumcise because of religious reasons, then go fuck yourself; no doctrine should prescribe this and if the doctrine does, it's a shit, backwards doctrine.

if you circumcise because of health reasons (be it HIV, syphilis or whatever), damn dude, fuck you too

HIV, syphilis => wear condoms or just do not be promiscious

hygiene => wash your penis for gods sake

since this thread got totally derailed into circumcision (I have no idea why but I'll take a wild guess, somebody shat out for the Anne Coulter-y fear mongering about how boko haram does female circumcision)

i'll just say I agree with everything you said above 100%. it's weird to me that in the 'first world' involuntary male circumcision is still like 90% acceptable among the general populace, it makes no fucking sense at all.

 

[awepittance]

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

 

i'm ok with jokes and derailments from the thread if they didn't resemble teenage NOFX quality punk apathy bullshit like half your posts in my threads do, I recieve and give hug and kisses to people who are cool

[goDel]

A rational kind of love.

 

Nothing better to add than that I think SH is a dick on the subject of Islam. But that he has a right to be a dick. And I would fight for his ability to be a dick. Circumcised or uncircumcised. Although in his case I would prefer circumcised.

[YO303]

 

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

 

i'm ok with jokes and derailments from the thread if they didn't resemble teenage NOFX quality punk apathy bullshit like half your posts in my threads do, I recieve and give hug and kisses to people who are cool

This thread is full of white privileged males flexing the little alpha male muscles they have, no e of you(correct me if I'm wrong) have any experience living in the shoes of the people you are discussing, I'll rather get my info from people who go to places themselves and have first hand experience (like Shane Smith) so sorry I with the little dignity I have left can't take any of this discussion seriously, specially the last few pages about genital mutilation,lol.

[Guest]

There are a few cases where circumcision is needed; for instance, when the foreskin chokes off the glans and Paraphimosis (or 'Spanish Collar' as we call it in dutch), then circumcision is justified. i'm pretty sure this is only the case in 0.3% of the population.

 

too much sex and afraid of diseases? actions -> consequences. Promiscuity isn't something to be very proud of.

aesthetic reasons because of porn? lol, grow the fuck up.

religious doctrines?

 

When an adult decides to cut off his foreskin, yes ofcourse you can; it's your dick. just realize there's no way back. however, it riles me fuck up that we allow Jews and Muslims to cut off the foreskin of their babies, without so much as a glans glance of disapproval by the rest of the population.

 

I guess that, in part, we have the porn industry to thank for this; all you see is cut dicks (monstrous size too for that matter), and lol, don't even get me started on all those shaved genitals; it looks like a couple of toddlers' cunts and cocks.

[LimpyLoo]

Muslim dude in India was just killed by a 'Hindu mob' over rumors that he ate beef.

[goDel]

it's those hindus again....

[Guest]

Muslim dude in India was just killed by a 'Hindu mob' over rumors that he ate beef.

Horrible.. mobs are so fucking ignorant.

[LimpyLoo]

 

Muslim dude in India was just killed by a 'Hindu mob' over rumors that he ate beef.

 

Horrible.. mobs are so fucking ignorant.

Yes, especially when they're motivated by goofy supernatural beliefs

[caze]

Arguing that male circumcision is anything like mutilating the clirotus or the multitude of horrible things lumped under 'female circumcision' just shows how emotionally fueled and non-rational your debate points are.

 

I've never had a problem with my penis and like alco said above, I don't remember it. My cousin had to have his done at 18 due to lack of care or something and he has reported no ill effects after spending the majority of his yanking years with a hooded warrior.

 

Am I not supposed to cut and umbilical cord? - There --- > an argument I can throw in your way to make the argument seem ridiculous and further my point. Feels good, don't it.

 

There are a wide variety of cultures and methods involved in genital cutting, both for men and women. In some countries they just cut some of the labia off, in others they cut some of the clitoral hood (which is basically the same as male circumcision), in others they remove or damage the clitoris itself, or damage the vaginal opening to tighten it and make sex painful. With men too, there are differences, southern African practices of male cutting can be pretty horrific.

 

Regardless of the type though it is a basic invalidation of human bodily authority, for those people here who have been circumcised and have no problem with it, fine, good for you. But there are plenty of people who do have a problem with it, and there's not much they can do about it (there are surgical and non-surgical restoration methods available, but they're not ideal). If it's left up to an adult choice then there's no problem, but it's completely immoral to make that choice for a child.

 

Comparing it to an umbilical cord is completely retarded, and umbilical cord will naturally detach after birth if it's not cut off. The foreskin has a purpose, it evolved for a reason (ironically, mostly for health reasons).

[chenGOD]

 

 

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

 

i'm ok with jokes and derailments from the thread if they didn't resemble teenage NOFX quality punk apathy bullshit like half your posts in my threads do, I recieve and give hug and kisses to people who are cool

This thread is full of white privileged males flexing the little alpha male muscles they have, no e of you(correct me if I'm wrong) have any experience living in the shoes of the people you are discussing, I'll rather get my info from people who go to places themselves and have first hand experience (like Shane Smith) so sorry I with the little dignity I have left can't take any of this discussion seriously, specially the last few pages about genital mutilation,lol.

 

 

So can you take me seriously because I lived in Myanmar? The Muslim population there is being subjected to a campaign of hate by a Buddhist Nationalist group, disenfranchised, and having their ability to participate in the political process taken away.

 

Or can you take me seriously because I had my foreskin lopped off (when I was an adult)?

 

We can't comment on something unless we have lived or experienced it? Better just stop thinking altogether then.

[chenGOD]

 

 

Muslim dude in India was just killed by a 'Hindu mob' over rumors that he ate beef.

Horrible.. mobs are so fucking ignorant.

Yes, especially when they're motivated by goofy supernatural beliefs

 

 

Why does the supernatural belief matter? Mob violence is idiotic and ignorant regardless of the cause. Why does the supernatural belief make it worse than other forms of mob violence?

[LimpyLoo]

It doesn't make it worse, it just makes it more likely to happen.

[eugene]

 

Arguing that male circumcision is anything like mutilating the clirotus or the multitude of horrible things lumped under 'female circumcision' just shows how emotionally fueled and non-rational your debate points are.

 

I've never had a problem with my penis and like alco said above, I don't remember it. My cousin had to have his done at 18 due to lack of care or something and he has reported no ill effects after spending the majority of his yanking years with a hooded warrior.

 

Am I not supposed to cut and umbilical cord? - There --- > an argument I can throw in your way to make the argument seem ridiculous and further my point. Feels good, don't it.

There are a wide variety of cultures and methods involved in genital cutting, both for men and women. In some countries they just cut some of the labia off, in others they cut some of the clitoral hood (which is basically the same as male circumcision), in others they remove or damage the clitoris itself, or damage the vaginal opening to tighten it and make sex painful. With men too, there are differences, southern African practices of male cutting can be pretty horrific.

 

Regardless of the type though it is a basic invalidation of human bodily authority, for those people here who have been circumcised and have no problem with it, fine, good for you. But there are plenty of people who do have a problem with it, and there's not much they can do about it (there are surgical and non-surgical restoration methods available, but they're not ideal). If it's left up to an adult choice then there's no problem, but it's completely immoral to make that choice for a child.

 

Comparing it to an umbilical cord is completely retarded, and umbilical cord will naturally detach after birth if it's not cut off. The foreskin has a purpose, it evolved for a reason (ironically, mostly for health reasons).

 

it would be immoral if it would be somehow conclusively detrimental, but it simply isn't at the end of it all. there are some advantages/disadvantges to having a foreskin/not having one, but from what i skimmed about it nothing really tips the scale in one way or another.

there is a pretty long period during which a child's body is under his parents' total control (because a child can't make choices rationally, obviously) when it comes to its appearance and maintenance, and not only body related stuff but mental development as well. a lot of those choices a parent would make would also affect a child in an irreversible way to a large degree, not really different from circumcision.

 

also what is the evolutionary purpose of man nipples?

[Audioblysk]

Saying that cutting the clitoral hood is the same as removing foreskin at birth is absolutely ludicrous and might show how little you get laid or understand female anatomy. There are so so so many more nerves there that can effect the ability for women to reach climax in the most common way women do. The foreskin is literally just skin with a very small amount of nerves comparatively.

 

About the 'making a decision for the child' - you do that as a parent. Same as vaccination, which like the rhetoric you're on is basically of the same mindset of 'could give them autism and they don't really need it' - If it were as damaging as you say, I think it would be outlawed, more MD's would oppose it vehemently and there would be plenty of pissed off men who hated their parents for ruining their wang, myself included. The health argument falls by the wayside in some sense as most of the benefits foreskin served were for when we didn't bathe regularly as a species - as Chen posted, there are benefits in a more modern way, circumcision isn't just barbarism and certainly shouldn't be held to the level of cutting clitoral hoods, clitoriti or the myriad of African hacking of genitals when we talk about the common way in which it is performed by 1st world medical doctors.

 

If you posted more studies or facts, I'd be more apt to accept your point or at least consider it, but you're going from 0 to 100 on this one with nothing. I made the umbilical cord point as a joke, I thought I made that clear - of course it's really really dumb to say that, man. As usual, name calling comes out pretty quick with the 'retard' thing here and it is impossible to have reasonable debate without going all '8th grade' when there are supposing views.

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Arguing that male circumcision is anything like mutilating the clirotus or the multitude of horrible things lumped under 'female circumcision' just shows how emotionally fueled and non-rational your debate points are.

 

I've never had a problem with my penis and like alco said above, I don't remember it. My cousin had to have his done at 18 due to lack of care or something and he has reported no ill effects after spending the majority of his yanking years with a hooded warrior.

 

Am I not supposed to cut and umbilical cord? - There --- > an argument I can throw in your way to make the argument seem ridiculous and further my point. Feels good, don't it.

There are a wide variety of cultures and methods involved in genital cutting, both for men and women. In some countries they just cut some of the labia off, in others they cut some of the clitoral hood (which is basically the same as male circumcision), in others they remove or damage the clitoris itself, or damage the vaginal opening to tighten it and make sex painful. With men too, there are differences, southern African practices of male cutting can be pretty horrific.

 

Regardless of the type though it is a basic invalidation of human bodily authority, for those people here who have been circumcised and have no problem with it, fine, good for you. But there are plenty of people who do have a problem with it, and there's not much they can do about it (there are surgical and non-surgical restoration methods available, but they're not ideal). If it's left up to an adult choice then there's no problem, but it's completely immoral to make that choice for a child.

 

Comparing it to an umbilical cord is completely retarded, and umbilical cord will naturally detach after birth if it's not cut off. The foreskin has a purpose, it evolved for a reason (ironically, mostly for health reasons).

 

it would be immoral if it would be somehow conclusively detrimental, but it simply isn't at the end of it all. there are some advantages/disadvantges to having a foreskin/not having one, but from what i skimmed about it nothing really tips the scale in one way or another.

there is a pretty long period during which a child's body is under his parents' total control (because a child can't make choices rationally, obviously) when it comes to its appearance and maintenance, and not only body related stuff but mental development as well. a lot of those choices a parent would make would also affect a child in an irreversible way to a large degree, not really different from circumcision.

 

also what is the evolutionary purpose of man nipples?

 

 

these are both valid arguments, my wife and i just had a baby boy so i actually researched this a lot and spoke with various friends and family about it, including a coworker who is secular and personally opted to not circumcise his son

 

i never felt strongly enough to seriously oppose circumcision for my kid so i decided for it, and a huge part of it was the fact that i trusted our doctor - i personally was there for the procedure and it was pretty anticlimactic, the actual procedure was very minor and simple, my son was awake and he didn't even notice. the only thing ive come across as anti-circumcision was that it might affect sexual sensitivity but it's not exactly well-established. ironically enough it seems a lot of women prefer men with circumcision, at least in the states.

 

my main reason for researching and weighing the option stemmed from the fact that its so oddly de facto in the U.S. people don't talk about it, they just do it. i was embarrassingly ignorant that i was myself unitl about it until late high school/college (i never had to shower in school locker rooms) thinking it was only a religious thing for a few (lol srsly). the history behind the procedure in the US is quite absurd and i hope people become more aware of it in the future. apparently it's becoming more common for people not to. sadly i must admit i didnt want to make my own family confused about why i didn't circumcise my son. im already kind of bucking the trend by not being religious so i dunno, i felt it was a unneeded stressful conversation waiting to happen. a cop out i know. i can only say i will talk about with my son, and that i hope my kids, assuming they have children, don't feel any pressure to do the procedure on their children whatsoever.

[LimpyLoo]

 

 

 

Muslim dude in India was just killed by a 'Hindu mob' over rumors that he ate beef.

 

Horrible.. mobs are so fucking ignorant.

Yes, especially when they're motivated by goofy supernatural beliefs

Why does the supernatural belief matter? Mob violence is idiotic and ignorant regardless of the cause. Why does the supernatural belief make it worse than other forms of mob violence?

Also..

Silly supernatural beliefs are not confined to the privacy of people's heads

Ben Carson is within 1 point of trump today

He thinks evolution is literally a hoax perpetrated by the devil

He thinks God created everything a few thousand years ago

(Not to mention climate change, vaccines etc)

 

Think of the damage that could be done

How we could start back-sliding

How 'creationism in the classroom' is just a vote away

When I preach about rationalism and humanism

I get the impression that people take this stuff for granted

Like it's set in stone

And all that's at stake is some minor details this way or that

[caze]

it would be immoral if it would be somehow conclusively detrimental, but it simply isn't at the end of it all. there are some advantages/disadvantges to having a foreskin/not having one, but from what i skimmed about it nothing really tips the scale in one way or another.

 

It's irrelevant whether a scale is tipped when you look at everything in total (though even then I'm very sceptical about the medical claims). It's enough that there are people who don't want to have it done after it was done. You can't make that choice for them.

 

there is a pretty long period during which a child's body is under his parents' total control (because a child can't make choices rationally, obviously) when it comes to its appearance and maintenance, and not only body related stuff but mental development as well. a lot of those choices a parent would make would also affect a child in an irreversible way to a large degree, not really different from circumcision.

 

Yes it is different, parents have a responsibility to protect their children, that includes protecting them from irreversible medical procedures they may well regret when they grow up.

 

also what is the evolutionary purpose of man nipples?

 

Lactating, in females, men just get them for free. The clitoral hood and foreskin similarly share the same genetic morphological genesis, though in this case they both perform a similar function, namely protection of a sensitive body.

[caze]

As usual, name calling comes out pretty quick with the 'retard' thing here and it is impossible to have reasonable debate without going all '8th grade' when there are supposing views.

 

Apologies, reading that again it is actually obvious it was meant as a joke, the stupidity of the initial utterance must have blinded me to the rest of the sentence, should have given you more credit than that.

[autopilot]

Seems like people

Get pretty defensive

About their

Ugly ass

Cheese filled

Sandworm lookin

Dicks

 

[edit] Allahu Ackbar

[eugene]

 

it would be immoral if it would be somehow conclusively detrimental, but it simply isn't at the end of it all. there are some advantages/disadvantges to having a foreskin/not having one, but from what i skimmed about it nothing really tips the scale in one way or another.

 

It's irrelevant whether a scale is tipped when you look at everything in total (though even then I'm very sceptical about the medical claims). It's enough that there are people who don't want to have it done after it was done. You can't make that choice for them.

 

there is a pretty long period during which a child's body is under his parents' total control (because a child can't make choices rationally, obviously) when it comes to its appearance and maintenance, and not only body related stuff but mental development as well. a lot of those choices a parent would make would also affect a child in an irreversible way to a large degree, not really different from circumcision.

 

Yes it is different, parents have a responsibility to protect their children, that includes protecting them from irreversible medical procedures they may well regret when they grow up.

 

also what is the evolutionary purpose of man nipples?

 

Lactating, in females, men just get them for free. The clitoral hood and foreskin similarly share the same genetic morphological genesis, though in this case they both perform a similar function, namely protection of a sensitive body.

 

 

even deciding to make a child to begin with in some particular environment can be argued as immoral if you stretch it, or pushing him to study one thing over another, or cooking meals of particular cuisine in his childhood. the point is that those things also cause very deep to irreversible changes to body or mind just like circumcision. a child can regret his parents pushing him to study particular things or to be a carnivore (!), just like with circumcision.

 

my point regarding man nipples was to counter your notion that all parts of human body serve some important purpose, man nipples don't and foreskin doesn't look like it serves much purpose either, especially in modern times.

[Audioblysk]

Side note - LOL at the Compson posts in the beginning of this thread. Can we bring him back? He was one of the few people that was genuinely unhinged here and it was fun as hell to watch him freak out and make posts that were 2 pages long.

[YO303]

 

 

 

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

 

i'm ok with jokes and derailments from the thread if they didn't resemble teenage NOFX quality punk apathy bullshit like half your posts in my threads do, I recieve and give hug and kisses to people who are cool

This thread is full of white privileged males flexing the little alpha male muscles they have, no e of you(correct me if I'm wrong) have any experience living in the shoes of the people you are discussing, I'll rather get my info from people who go to places themselves and have first hand experience (like Shane Smith) so sorry I with the little dignity I have left can't take any of this discussion seriously, specially the last few pages about genital mutilation,lol.

 

 

So can you take me seriously because I lived in Myanmar? The Muslim population there is being subjected to a campaign of hate by a Buddhist Nationalist group, disenfranchised, and having their ability to participate in the political process taken away.

 

Or can you take me seriously because I had my foreskin lopped off (when I was an adult)?

 

We can't comment on something unless we have lived or experienced it? Better just stop thinking altogether then.

 

 

Is it not fair to ask for credentials? i mean we asked for credentials for about everything scientific why not stuff like this? Specially since this deals with human beings and how we perceive them/cultures, etc. I dont want our opinions to be shaped by some bored basement dweller who has a chip on his shoulder.

 

Its hard enough to get the truth, makes it harder when you have people swinging their cocks around, making every straw argument left in the tank cause god forbid their ego allows them to accept they are wrong.

 

This thread is full of angry people shouting at each other, i mean how can a person who knows nothing about the subject get an idea of WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING, this is not a civil debate at all, its just internet guys defending their agendas and ideas abut a certain culture, its not reality.

[poblequadrat]

asking for credentials so you can assess where someone is speaking from is fine, but denying that politics is accessible to anyone's judgement and should be reserved to a few oppressed people is a pretty obscurantist/religious stance. That said, some people do talk out of their arse.

[caze]

 

 

 

 

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

 

i'm ok with jokes and derailments from the thread if they didn't resemble teenage NOFX quality punk apathy bullshit like half your posts in my threads do, I recieve and give hug and kisses to people who are cool

This thread is full of white privileged males flexing the little alpha male muscles they have, no e of you(correct me if I'm wrong) have any experience living in the shoes of the people you are discussing, I'll rather get my info from people who go to places themselves and have first hand experience (like Shane Smith) so sorry I with the little dignity I have left can't take any of this discussion seriously, specially the last few pages about genital mutilation,lol.

 

 

So can you take me seriously because I lived in Myanmar? The Muslim population there is being subjected to a campaign of hate by a Buddhist Nationalist group, disenfranchised, and having their ability to participate in the political process taken away.

 

Or can you take me seriously because I had my foreskin lopped off (when I was an adult)?

 

We can't comment on something unless we have lived or experienced it? Better just stop thinking altogether then.

 

 

Is it not fair to ask for credentials? i mean we asked for credentials for about everything scientific why not stuff like this? Specially since this deals with human beings and how we perceive them/cultures, etc. I dont want our opinions to be shaped by some bored basement dweller who has a chip on his shoulder.

 

Its hard enough to get the truth, makes it harder when you have people swinging their cocks around, making every straw argument left in the tank cause god forbid their ego allows them to accept they are wrong.

 

This thread is full of angry people shouting at each other, i mean how can a person who knows nothing about the subject get an idea of WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING, this is not a civil debate at all, its just internet guys defending their agendas and ideas abut a certain culture, its not reality.

 

 

yes, and your vague non-specific waffling is helping so much.