IDF have told The Times they expect to invade Gaza this weekend.

[syd syside]

So when you describe my posts as taking away much needed empathy to the PALESTINIANS you are misrepresenting my posts. My concentration is on Hamas. The fact that you continue to try and paint my perspective as against the Palestinians is what I can only describe as your way of avoiding the many problems Hamas poses and how their actions add to the equation of innocent deaths (on both sides). I am simply posting information, putting stuff up there. Please feel free to directly quote where I don't show empathy towards innocent Palestinians. Because from my perspective I am fighting for a peaceful resolution. I am not encouraging violence from Israel but where you have not been clear is what you think Israel should do. If you think this situation will be resolved by simply reverting back the 1967 borders then you should take a look at history again as Eugene has called you out on this. The reason why the Arab population and religious freedoms is important is that these things will promote peace. Compared to the religious extremities where being Gay in P.A. is an impossibility. So I am coming at this situation purely from the human rights perspective. For individuals. Israel provides food and electricity to P.A. , they attempt to remove the violent activists in Palestine with minimal innocent lives lost by informing where/when they will strike (as shown in a few videos I have posted). They are not interested in genocide as in cleansing the Arab population (as per that map). It's purely a security issue. Their actions end with disgusting results and I don't think anyone is defending that. So in the end I find that most everyone in this thread is in general agreement. It's simply how one phrases and focuses on the events that can lead to confusion. And it does not help to play into that game by suggesting that I am not empathetic towards a race or group of people. The best thing for the Palestinians would be a cease fire. The best thing for Israel would be a cease fire. Each side should recognize each other and Israel should give land back. We as people far removed from the region should remain pro-active against human rights violations WHICH includes promoting religious freedoms and individual rights (something that most Arab nations have yet to fully get behind).

[syd syside]

Truce details:

 

Details of the Egyptian-sponsored truce deal between Israel and Gaza:

 

-Israel is to stop all aggression against the Gaza Strip from land, sea and air, including cross-border incursions and targeted killings.

 

-Palestinian factions are to stop all aggression from Gaza towards Israel, including rocket fire and attacks on the border.

 

-All border crossings are to be opened 24 hours after the ceasefire takes effect, easing restrictions on travel of people and goods in and out of the Gaza Strip.

 

-Other terms will be discussed as necessary at a later date.

 

-Egypt acts as guarantor and has received guarantees from all sides to adhere to the terms of the ceasefire

[syd syside]

These two perspectives seem to get at the heart of the issue:

 

You're right, there's no comparison. To put it plainly Israel was given what Palestine has been denied and this makes all the difference. They have no country and every year it's harder to see that they will get one. Their land has been cut up by restricted roads and settlements. The people have no self-determination and are perpetual refugees in their own territories.

 

The situation has worn on for decades. Palestinians have been denigrated for decades. The path of peace hasn't worked for multiple generations. Israel keeps expanding. The status quo works towards the long-term goal of a Greater Israel. That is why average, everday people would democratically vote for a terrorist organization like Hamas in the first place, they are just that bloody desperate. Not enough people have put this together and instead Palestinians are described as some form of sub-human.

 

Well then Palestinian militants shouldn't have waged numerous wars on the Israeli people throughout all of those decades, especially in 1948 - because during most of the times they had owned between 60-80% of livable land. While the Israelis settled and basically started building from the ground up in much of the region and then had to fight off completely unprovoked attacks. You tell me how how Israel is wrong on that one. It all started off there. Palestinian leaders did not want a Jewish presence in the land and opened fire first.

 

Again, Israel did not illegally occupy land. They fought off attackers and had to eventually corner them off to restrain them after a damn near dozen wars. What else do you expect a country to do when wars were spilling out into public streets? There were no battlegrounds lined out, like in the US Civil War - people were getting murdered left and right from the 40s to 70s. Heck, when Israel took over the West Bank, they took it from Jordan (who WAS killing Palestinians) and gave it to the Palestinians. It's a huge chunk of land too, larger than New York City.

 

And in regards to War Crimes and Human Rights violations on BOTH sides:

 

Israel perspective: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/19/hamas-leaves-israel-no-choice/print

 

Hamas's charter includes the aspiration that "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews)". While many concentrate on its death-cult worship, its bloodthirsty killing of adversaries, or its contempt for women, Christians and homosexuals, it is this aspiration for genocide that is at the root of Hamas activities. This is the primary reason why Hamas, the governing regime in Gaza, will never recognise or accept a peace accord with Israel in any form.

Since Israel left Gaza in 2005, thousands of rockets have rained down on Israeli cities and towns in deliberate contravention not just of international law, but all humanity and morality. While some might suggest the so-called blockade is the cause of the attacks, it is actually a consequence. The restrictions were only implemented two years after Israel left Gaza, when it was clear that instead of building a "Singapore of the Middle East", Hamas was interested in importing stockpiles of weapons from places like Iran. Instead of building a future for its people, Hamas built an open-air prison for the million and a half inhabitants who fell into its grasp.

However, Gaza was never enough for an organisation whose raison d'etre is the annihilation of Israel, and whose charter begins with the ominous warning that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it".

Every rocket from Gaza is a double war crime. First, the rockets are aimed at civilians; second, they are fired from built-up civilian areas, often close to schools, mosques and hospitals. And about 10% of Hamas rockets fired from Gaza don't reach Israel, exploding in Gaza. Mohammed Sadallah – a four-year-old killed on Saturday, his body displayed in a press conference with Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas's leader – was, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, most likely killed by an errant Hamas rocket.

 

Palestinian perspective: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/255187#.UK0pbIWBQy5

 

Member of Knesset Taleb El-Sana (Ra'am Ta'al United Arab List) accused the government of Israel, Sunday evening, of committing war crimes. He defined the killing of the Al-Dalu family in the An-Nasr neighborhood of Gaza as a despicable terrorist act, and the people who carried it out as murderers. He said, "Whoever initiated this military adventure is responsible for the blood shed here as well as there."

MK El-Sana called for the immediate stopping of "this stupid and unnecessary war".

 

+ http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/reporters-without-borders-condemns-israeli-strikes-on-building-housing-media-outlets-1.478896

 

PARIS - Reporters Without Borders has condemned Israeli missile attacks on two media centers in Gaza that wounded six Palestinian journalists Sunday and damaged the equipment of foreign media outlets.

The attacks on the two high-rise buildings damaged offices of the Hamas TV station, Al Aqsa, and a Lebanese-based broadcaster, Al Quds TV, seen as sympathetic to the Islamists. Germany's public broadcaster ARD; Russia Today, a state TV network that broadcasts in English; and Sky News Arabia said they lost equipment in the attacks.

Gaza press association said six Palestinian journalists were wounded, including one who lost a leg.

Christophe Deloire, the director of Reporters Without Borders' international headquarters in Paris, called the attacks unjustified and a threat to freedom of information. He demanded an investigation into the circumstances of the raid.

"Even though the outlets targeted are linked to Hamas, it does not legitimize the attacks," he said. "Attacks against civilian targets constitute war crimes."

[sweepstakes]

Where's that thing where you can see the number of posts from each user in a thread?

[syd syside]

Stop entering the thread if the topic doesn't interest you? I'm just posting relevant information regarding this. As I did in the Sandy thread. News, politics etc are of interest to me

[sweepstakes]

It does interest me, it just seems neurotic to keep dumping dozens of news articles in here instead of having a discussion. Like this is a manually populated RSS feed rather than a forum. But whatevz, I probably wouldn't find this info on my own so I guess it's valuable.

 

I seriously am curious about post counts, though.

[triachus]

I seriously am curious about post counts, though.

 

just click on the number of replies next to the thread titles

[Guest chunky]

iain c you are a very ignorant person and you should learn the history of france and the french revolution. bu your iq is so low there is no hope for you.

[Guest chunky]

best place to start would be the jewish histories that are written by jews

 

[awepittance]

breaking news: my sister got threatened by the Israeli government and was essentially told she would never be allowed in the country for her coverage on RT. For the 'most functioning democracy in the middle east' that must be a pretty fucking low bar, lol

[sweepstakes]

Good lord, was it just for that interview you posted?

 

[awepittance]

no she's probably been on their radar for a while i'd imagine

 

It's a developing story and i'll fill in the details as soon as i get them. Not reported by many outlets but Russia Today had a media office in Gaza that was 'accidentally' bombed, instead of contacting RT to apologize for launching a missle at their own journalists they instead excoriated RT for 'taking a side' and illustrating Abby's show as to why. It's on now BB-twat, you just fucked with the wrong girl.

[SR4]

some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on.

 

Find me one of these people who isn't a neo-nazi.

 

fuck that, show me academically sound evidence that challenges the holocaust narrative.

 

"having doubt" of something doesn't automatically validate the premise of said doubt.

 

iain c you are a very ignorant person and you should learn the history of france and the french revolution. bu your iq is so low there is no hope for you.

 

by all means, enlighten me. im all ears.

[baph]

some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on.

 

Find me one of these people who isn't a neo-nazi.

 

fuck that, show me academically sound evidence that challenges the holocaust narrative.

 

"having doubt" of something doesn't automatically validate the premise of said doubt.

 

iain c you are a very ignorant person and you should learn the history of france and the french revolution. bu your iq is so low there is no hope for you.

 

by all means, enlighten me. im all ears.

 

But there is no hope for you smetty.

You are educated stupid. No ancient insignificant dead 1 Jew godism can match or exceed the enormity of the Sun/Earth Binary. His heart is not big enough for sharing with the vastness of created opposites. You are taught Evil, you act Evil, you are the Evil on Earth. Only your comprehending the divinity of Cubic Creation will your soul be saved from your created hell on Earth - induced by your ignoring the existing 4 corner harmonic simultaneous 4 days rotating in a single cycle of the Earth sphere. Educators destroy your brain, but you don't know, so why care?

[joshuatxuk]

no she's probably been on their radar for a while i'd imagine

 

It's a developing story and i'll fill in the details as soon as i get them. Not reported by many outlets but Russia Today had a media office in Gaza that was 'accidentally' bombed, instead of contacting RT to apologize for launching a missle at their own journalists they instead excoriated RT for 'taking a side' and illustrating Abby's show as to why. It's on now BB-twat, you just fucked with the wrong girl.

 

That's quite pitiful on their part. I'm curious how often they threaten news outlets, I know it's not the first. "Democratic" governments do that all the time.

 

I did actually see coverage about the journalists in Gaza being killed in most US outlets but sure enough the Tel Aviv bus bombing eclipsed it. I dunno, I use google news to browse stories specifically to gauge who is covering what, especially when it's highly politicized conflicts like this one.

[SR4]

some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on.

 

Find me one of these people who isn't a neo-nazi.

 

fuck that, show me academically sound evidence that challenges the holocaust narrative.

 

"having doubt" of something doesn't automatically validate the premise of said doubt.

 

iain c you are a very ignorant person and you should learn the history of france and the french revolution. bu your iq is so low there is no hope for you.

 

by all means, enlighten me. im all ears.

 

But there is no hope for you smetty.

You are educated stupid. No ancient insignificant dead 1 Jew godism can match or exceed the enormity of the Sun/Earth Binary. His heart is not big enough for sharing with the vastness of created opposites. You are taught Evil, you act Evil, you are the Evil on Earth. Only your comprehending the divinity of Cubic Creation will your soul be saved from your created hell on Earth - induced by your ignoring the existing 4 corner harmonic simultaneous 4 days rotating in a single cycle of the Earth sphere. Educators destroy your brain, but you don't know, so why care?

 

 

omg wtf timecube lol

[chenGOD]

bu

 

bu?

[Guest chunky]

www.realjewnews.com

[roasty]

i take it you don't like jews?

[sweepstakes]

cheers

[Guest chunky]

I like 'em but I don't want to end up like the men in WWI & II, fighting and dying in a war for a far away place and a religion that I don't believe in. The war that will be required to build a greater Israel will make WWI look like teddy bear's picnic. I don't like the fact that the media is lying to me about Syria, saying that it is a civil war when the truth is that Israel's borders are being expanded by the Likud/Rothschild extremist zionist faction. And it's always a USA/UK/France alliance doing this. (see: american revolution, english revolution, french revolution)

 

I don't like the fact that the Iraq war was fought because of neocons leading us into that war (neocons =Likud in the USA). If a small but rich and influential group of jews believed that Israel's border should be expanded into Syria and Iraq, as it says they have a right to do in their religious book (from the nile to the euphrates, check a map and see which countries that covers! pretty much all the ones where USA has been causing trouble in teh last decade) they haven't been honest about it. They've used their power to trick us into fighting and dying for their dreams and beliefs. We've been told that we need to get involved in these countries to stop terrorism, but that's been a smoke screen all along for expanding the borders of Israel. So why does this Likud group lie to us and trick us and have us fight wars that we don't need to fight? Why are we dumb enough to allow this bullshit to continue? We don't need to be in Afghanitan or Syria or Iraq or any of these places. Let's tell Likud to piss off and fight their own wars and let their own soldiers die, they can leave us in peace.

 

And they didn't even show proof of Osama bin Laden's death. We're just supposed to take the USA government's word for it that they killed him. If they're lying to us about Syria and Iraq, how can they be trusted to tell people the full truth. It was probably Mossad that trained bin Laden and had him inspire some idiots to crash the planes into the towers. This as a pretext for Israel's borders moving into Iraq etc!!!!!!!!

 

Ordinary Israeli citizens are probably thinking "damn why are we fighting over this piece of dust in the desert", but there's not much they can do to get their own government to stop being brutal. So it sucks! And there's nothing we can do.

[Guest Iain C]

You want my advice Chunky? Stick to cryptic, short posts. You're actually interesting that way.

[Guest chunky]

Iain C, please learn some history before responding to me with your angry rubbish.

[Guest Iain C]

Come on then, what's your username on the David Icke forum?

[Blir]

This whole thing has me so depressed. People don't really know what they're killing for anymore, this conflict is older than them. At this point it's just "kill the other guy because that's what we do".

 

Can't say I support either side. People are dying, that's a shame no matter who you are. Fucking nightmare, man.

 

[/useless post]