Marvellously beautiful TED talk

[keltoi]

Guys guys guys. Sorry I got to this thread late. It's an issue dear to my heart and I have things to say.

 

1) It's madness to decry her success on a site like this, which champions smaller/indie artists. She's finding (key word: it's a process) a new way to make a decent living as a musician. Anybody who thinks being poor is an OK part of being a musician hates music. I'm sorry, but it's true. It's romantic to think of art removed from money, but it's impractical. If you like music, you should be part of a world that gets musicians paid, and you should be especially OK when someone makes a lot of money from it.

 

she explains in her TED talk that her whole life's work, from the outset, has involved getting(and giving) stuff for nothing...

 

she paid folk retrospectively after being pulled up about it... i think she realises that part was a mistake.

 

whether i like her music and everything else aside, she makes stuff happen for herself, and that can only be commended.

[Guest A/D]

oh! from your hairy armpits comment I thought you were one of the haters. well, thanks for showing your support.

[Bitraete]

Guys guys guys. Sorry I got to this thread late. It's an issue dear to my heart and I have things to say.

 

1) It's madness to decry her success on a site like this, which champions smaller/indie artists. She's finding (key word: it's a process) a new way to make a decent living as a musician. Anybody who thinks being poor is an OK part of being a musician hates music. I'm sorry, but it's true. It's romantic to think of art removed from money, but it's impractical. If you like music, you should be part of a world that gets musicians paid, and you should be especially OK when someone makes a lot of money from it.

 

2) Not only did she start paying the local "volunteer" musicians who play with her at her shows, she back-paid EVERYONE she had played with on this tour retroactively. So that's a non-issue. (You can read her blog about this here: http://amandapalmer.net/blog/20120919/ )

 

3) When the fuck is it going to become unacceptable to judge a woman's (or ANYONE'S) efforts based on her appearance? You think she looks like a dude. You don't like her eyebrows. So no one should give her a million dollars. Grow up. Also, as a forum of iconoclasts, you should be psyched when someone counterculture succeeds in a big, non-mainstream way.

 

4) Someone explain to me how doing a Kickstarter is exploitative. There are about 1,000,000,000 Kickstarters I haven't given to and I don't give a fuck. I support stuff when I actually want the incentive involved, 100% voluntarily. Kind of like a store, only you're pre-funding the product.

 

Ok love you all bye!

 

Fucking yes to all of this.

 

I love you.

 

(although i'm actually a socialist who doesn't really a want a society with money)

[Bitraete]

^ anarchist socialist

[Guest theSun]

it's the jealousy. i would love to have thought of something like this to get a million dollars. but here i am, having not done anything musically in 2 years and i'm still fucking jealous. what the fuck have i been doing working an IT job? this chick just asks people for money to make shitty music and spends it on her personal debt.

 

kickstarter in itself is not exploitive, i don't think anyone was arguing that. in fact, there would be no issue at all if she didn't say she used a quarter million for her student fucking loans and other silly shit. WE (WATMM after all) know that you don't need 100k in lawyer fees to make music and most of us (i would) would feel guilty using donations for an album for your debts, whether it's student loans or owing a crack dealer (vsnares). i have abstract ideas about the whole making money off of music thing and it's hard to describe, but this comes down to a basic personal tenet: do not ask people for money unless you do not have the means to make it yourself, and this straddles that line.

 

the fact that she retroactively paid these people just means she felt heat from the internet/pro musicians.

[dr lopez]

i hate TED talks because they completely destroying an intellectual conversation or exchange of ideas, and instead critical information and concepts can only be framed through 15 min or less monologes with several cameras and *pauses for laughter*

 

I hate Amanda Palmer because she holds going to a liberal arts school, as she did in this talk, as some sort of twisted legitimacy of her concepts or methods. It also sucks that I go to the same school and people never fucking shut up about it

[eugene]

do you also hate short scientific articles and short stories ?

[Guest zaphod]

how is a ted talk anything like a short story? what the fuck? and amanda palmer isn't counterculture or outsider art. get a grip. i'd rather hear a jandek ted talk, but the people who might actually have something interesting and worthwhile to say about art and methods of distribution don't possess the ego to do it in the first place.

[joshuatxuk]

flol

[Alcofribas]

do you also hate shorts, lopez? i bet you do, scumbag.

[eugene]

how is a ted talk anything like a short story? what the fuck? and amanda palmer isn't counterculture or outsider art. get a grip. i'd rather hear a jandek ted talk, but the people who might actually have something interesting and worthwhile to say about art and methods of distribution don't possess the ego to do it in the first place.

the idea is you can also receive/exchange information in other forms, with time constraints. im not comparing the whole idea of a short story to ted talk, just the fact that you can receive useful information in constrained forms.

 

im not sure if the other part of your post is directed at me as i never claimed a.p to be any representative of anything. im just happy she promotes kickstarter as i think its a great platform.

[keltoi]

oh! from your hairy armpits comment I thought you were one of the haters. well, thanks for showing your support.

Don't get me wrong I find her pretty repulsive.

[Alcofribas]

i just want everyone to know a few posts ago i meant to say "jorts." i'm pretty sorry for the confusion.

[YO303]

Guys guys guys. Sorry I got to this thread late. It's an issue dear to my heart and I have things to say.

 

1) It's madness to decry her success on a site like this, which champions smaller/indie artists. She's finding (key word: it's a process) a new way to make a decent living as a musician. Anybody who thinks being poor is an OK part of being a musician hates music. I'm sorry, but it's true. It's romantic to think of art removed from money, but it's impractical. If you like music, you should be part of a world that gets musicians paid, and you should be especially OK when someone makes a lot of money from it.

 

2) Not only did she start paying the local "volunteer" musicians who play with her at her shows, she back-paid EVERYONE she had played with on this tour retroactively. So that's a non-issue. (You can read her blog about this here: http://amandapalmer.net/blog/20120919/ )

 

3) When the fuck is it going to become unacceptable to judge a woman's (or ANYONE'S) efforts based on her appearance? You think she looks like a dude. You don't like her eyebrows. So no one should give her a million dollars. Grow up. Also, as a forum of iconoclasts, you should be psyched when someone counterculture succeeds in a big, non-mainstream way.

 

4) Someone explain to me how doing a Kickstarter is exploitative. There are about 1,000,000,000 Kickstarters I haven't given to and I don't give a fuck. I support stuff when I actually want the incentive involved, 100% voluntarily. Kind of like a store, only you're pre-funding the product.

 

Ok love you all bye!

 

I think you are missing the point, her music is shit (in my opinion). I dont know why you think just because she is "indie" she deservers millions of dollars, i decide who i think deserves money based on the product not on their "hard work" or "years of struggle". I would rather give a million dollars to aphex twin than this woman just because i like aphex twin better and i dont care that she is struggling and aphex is already rich, i just like his music better.

 

She comes off as a smug, entitled and pretentious, and somehow is trying to make herself champion of indie artists/anti-big record label which she is not, she just found a way to scam people into feeling sorry for her.

 

I dont think she deserves credit for what she has done, there are other people out there who deserve more credit than her and that are doing the same thing as her but they dont come off as their are trying to scam people.

 

Also her eyebrows look weird, like the eyebrows are made out of metal and there is a magnet above her head.

[dr lopez]

i just want everyone to know a few posts ago i meant to say "jorts." i'm pretty sorry for the confusion.

i've let my ass hang out of a few quality pairs of jorts in my time

[Alcofribas]

the quality ones really do lend themselves to a good pair of dangling cheeks.

[Guest zaphod]

Also her eyebrows look weird, like the eyebrows are made out of metal and there is a magnet above her head.

 

lol

[Guest A/D]

in fact, there would be no issue at all if she didn't say she used a quarter million for her student fucking loans and other silly shit. WE (WATMM after all) know that you don't need 100k in lawyer fees to make music and most of us (i would) would feel guilty using donations for an album for your debts, whether it's student loans or owing a crack dealer (vsnares).

 

 

the fact that she retroactively paid these people just means she felt heat from the internet/pro musicians.

http://amandapalmer.net/blog/where-all-this-kickstarter-money-is-going-by-amanda/

 

Sorry, but there's no student loans in here. She says she borrowed the money to record and tour. And I don't think "we" know much of anything about what it costs to be a touring, recording musician. Suddenly you're very interested in managing her money, when I daresay this is the only breakdown of a band's expenses you've ever seen. If you're a manager with a bunch of albums under your belt, please say so. I'd love to know how this compares to other acts of her size.

 

Lopez, I might recommend you watch the talk again. 25 seconds in, she says "For about 5 years after graduating from an upstanding liberal arts university, this [being a human statue] was my day job." She means her school didn't help at all with her career. Where do you get the idea that she thinks her education justifies asking people for money?

[eugene]

it seems that hairy armpits, funny eyebrows and her music which doesn't get along with the collective watmm taste are just too distracting for the local haters camp so they can't address her simple arguments properly.

[Guest A/D]

I think you are missing the point, her music is shit (in my opinion). I dont know why you think just because she is "indie" she deservers millions of dollars, i decide who i think deserves money based on the product not on their "hard work" or "years of struggle". I would rather give a million dollars to aphex twin than this woman just because i like aphex twin better and i dont care that she is struggling and aphex is already rich, i just like his music better.

This makes no sense. You don't like her music? Don't give her money. Give Aphex Twin money. Nothing wrong with that. What is your point? People are giving her money because they like her product.

She comes off as a smug, entitled and pretentious, and somehow is trying to make herself champion of indie artists/anti-big record label which she is not, she just found a way to scam people into feeling sorry for her.

Well, if you watched the talk, you'd know she is happy to give away her music for free. Where's the scam in that? Why do you think people feel sorry for her? I think your grasp on this situation is pretty weak.

I dont think she deserves credit for what she has done, there are other people out there who deserve more credit than her and that are doing the same thing as her but they dont come off as their are trying to scam people.

She doesn't deserve credit for building a global brand/relationship with fans over 15-ish years and monetizing it? I'm starting to think you're a madman or a fool or you simply don't know how to express what you really mean.

Also her eyebrows look weird, like the eyebrows are made out of metal and there is a magnet above her head.

Never mind, you convinced me. I hate her and everything she stands for.

[Guest A/D]

it seems that hairy armpits, funny eyebrows and her music which doesn't get along with the collective watmm taste are just too distracting for the local haters camp so they can't address her simple arguments properly.

Yeah, that's probably all it is. Forgive me for hot-airing, but the way money is made in music is changing, and I am really happy to see any independent artist succeeding. It seems crazy to me to attack this kind of success.

[Bitraete]

 

oh! from your hairy armpits comment I thought you were one of the haters. well, thanks for showing your support.

Don't get me wrong I find her pretty repulsive.

 

Her physical appearance should have nothing to do with any of this.

[joshuatxuk]

 

in fact, there would be no issue at all if she didn't say she used a quarter million for her student fucking loans and other silly shit. WE (WATMM after all) know that you don't need 100k in lawyer fees to make music and most of us (i would) would feel guilty using donations for an album for your debts, whether it's student loans or owing a crack dealer (vsnares).

 

the fact that she retroactively paid these people just means she felt heat from the internet/pro musicians.

http://amandapalmer.net/blog/where-all-this-kickstarter-money-is-going-by-amanda/

 

Sorry, but there's no student loans in here. She says she borrowed the money to record and tour. And I don't think "we" know much of anything about what it costs to be a touring, recording musician. Suddenly you're very interested in managing her money, when I daresay this is the only breakdown of a band's expenses you've ever seen. If you're a manager with a bunch of albums under your belt, please say so. I'd love to know how this compares to other acts of her size.

 

Lopez, I might recommend you watch the talk again. 25 seconds in, she says "For about 5 years after graduating from an upstanding liberal arts university, this [being a human statue] was my day job." She means her school didn't help at all with her career. Where do you get the idea that she thinks her education justifies asking people for money?

 

The student loan thing was an assumption, she simply said loans and debt in general...personally if it isn't medical bills (I'm always sympathetic to those having to deal with that shit) I'm one who thinks you should pay your loans yourself.

 

I don't think that her education justifies anything personally one way or the other, in fact I'd argue it's irrelevant which is why I find her mention of it unnecessary and muddled her later points. "Look at me, I'm a college grad but look here and yet I was street performer for a living" just comes off really forced. She set it up like that instead of simply describing her experience as a street performer for dramatic effect. Even worse, she made it so anyone who thinks that's questionable as a lifestyle choice immediately as negative people. Not sure which type of fallacy it falls under specifically but I think it's a somewhat poor and childish argument.

 

And I'll stress again I have no problem with kickstarter, using fans as backing musicians for free, the fact that she raised all this money, etc. Nothing wrong with lawyers or managment, it just seems to be on the complete opposite spectrum of the artistry she speaks for and way more in the realm of professional entertainment. In fact if anyone needs harsh criticism for abusing kickstarter it's that asshole Deakin (Josh Gibbs) from Animal Collective, who didn't do shit with the money he raised for "charity."

 

In other words, I don't think she's exploitative or even hypocritical just don't really like her overall vibe and reasoning.

[YO303]

 

I think you are missing the point, her music is shit (in my opinion). I dont know why you think just because she is "indie" she deservers millions of dollars, i decide who i think deserves money based on the product not on their "hard work" or "years of struggle". I would rather give a million dollars to aphex twin than this woman just because i like aphex twin better and i dont care that she is struggling and aphex is already rich, i just like his music better.

This makes no sense. You don't like her music? Don't give her money. Give Aphex Twin money. Nothing wrong with that. What is your point? People are giving her money because they like her product.

>She comes off as a smug, entitled and pretentious, and somehow is trying to make herself champion of indie artists/anti-big record label which she is not, she just found a way to scam people into feeling sorry for her.

Well, if you watched the talk, you'd know she is happy to give away her music for free. Where's the scam in that? Why do you think people feel sorry for her? I think your grasp on this situation is pretty weak.

I dont think she deserves credit for what she has done, there are other people out there who deserve more credit than her and that are doing the same thing as her but they dont come off as their are trying to scam people.

She doesn't deserve credit for building a global brand/relationship with fans over 15-ish years and monetizing it? I'm starting to think you're a madman or a fool or you simply don't know how to express what you really mean.

Also her eyebrows look weird, like the eyebrows are made out of metal and there is a magnet above her head.

Never mind, you convinced me. I hate her and everything she stands for.

 

 

I'm just saying, don't be surprise when an electronic music forum doesnt like her music and doesnt support her cause. If this was a musician we all kind of like we would applaud him/her but her music sucks and you shouldn't expect us to just give her props just because she is a "struggling" musician. Her attitude sucks too and her vibe is dark and evil, if it was a more likable and honest person giving the speech maybe we'll be singing a different tune.

 

I think the initial point was that this kind of speeches don't belong in TED (in my opinion), the thread somehow descended into judging her speech.

[Guest A/D]

The student loan thing was an assumption, she simply said loans and debt in general...

Hold on though, that's not true! And it's incredibly misleading for you to spread your assumptions around as facts. She was pretty detailed about what the money was used for. Check the link.

I don't think that her education justifies anything personally one way or the other, in fact I'd argue it's irrelevant which is why I find her mention of it unnecessary and muddled her later points.

To me it communicated two things. First, it didn't disparage her education; after all, she studied performance, to the best of my knowledge (long time blog reader). Second, that her chosen career - performance - turned out to be about a direct connection with her audience, once she started doing it on her own. Pretty simple.

In other words, I don't think she's exploitative or even hypocritical just don't really like her overall vibe and reasoning.

What do you perceive as her vibe and reasoning?

If this was a musician we all kind of like we would applaud him/her but her music sucks and you shouldn't expect us to just give her props just because she is a "struggling" musician

Maybe I'm just humoring myself here, but the real issue here is the music business, not your opinion on anyone's music. She's not really claiming to be struggling, either; if she clears $100,000 from her Kickstarter she'll be at a profit of 8.3%, which is good for any business.

Her attitude sucks too and her vibe is dark and evil

I won't attempt to argue this, but I don't agree. If you read her blog she has a pretty positive, honest voice. Personally I'm more into her achievements than her music at this point. She's a real pioneer.