Germany NYE attacks

[Guest boo]

 

ever get the feeling that this hype is the effect of the clickbait media? the more outrage an item creates, the more clicks it gets. and now we're supposed to have some kind of meaningful discussion? about what? should i be outraged and vent my useless opinion (emotion) in the ether? ok, i'll try. i guess. :S

 

Sums up my feelings on media in a web 2.0 world pretty concisely

 

Either way I feel like shit is going to hit the fan in Europe, and any truth and reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from this are going to be buried under social media rhetoric and clueless discussion.

 

Innit

[caze]

Was just listening to the radio there, had an interview with the Helsinki chief of police. Apparently they received a tip off from one of the refugee reception centres (from the refugees themselves) that a large group of young men (mostly Iraqis) were planning on heading into the centre on NYE to steal shit, attack people and sexually assault women. They had them under surveillance from the point them left the centre and had an increased police presence to deal with it, and they prevented anything serious from happening (they only made about 15 arrests), not sure if he said exactly how many guys were in the group.

[Jaffa]

[KovalainenFanBoy]

[YangYing]

 

The left's solution for the muslim problem? Flood our nations with even more muslims.

the fact that you would describe the immigration influx into europe as 'the muslim problem' basically says everything

i wouldn't know about muslim, but it is a problem alright

[Guest WNS000]

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

 

To be honest, I am quite afraid to discuss this topic here on WATMM as there is many people having problems with emotional stability and objectivity when it comes to controversial topics.

 

Anyway, these kind of attacks are quite common in India and happened in huge numbers in Egypt during the Arab spring revolution too. Not very surprising that it happened. I am more surprised it got reported in media (though with a huge delay which says something about the sensitivity of the topic and media's policy in Europe).

[caze]

The media is too corrupted to provide valid truth.

People use major events in all sorts of political and personal agendas.

Because of the both above, people will always be able to manipulate public opinions and 'how's right to follow'.

The west is responsible for the aftermath of the years of war.

The immigrants are most probably playing on that card right now.

Which is not exactly 'noble', but since western bombers and missiles demolished everything they had and installed new order, you can't exactly blame them, right?

Western people should empathize more with nations that are being raped by 'freedom and democracy'.

Instead, our major concerns are the new iPhones and celebrity mischiefs.

 

Pretty ironic of you to talk about 'valid truth'.

 

The west is not primarily responsible for the Sryian crisis, it's not even one of the main players, it has more responsibility for Iraq, but nowhere near the sole responsibility.

 

Western bombing was in no way responsible for demolishing Syrian cities, by far the biggest responsibility for that lies with Assad, then rebel groups shelling Assad protected regions, then bombing from Arab states and Russia. The US and France have had limited bombing directed at populated areas in Syria/Iraq during the current conflict, Britain almost none at all.

[pyramidpanes]

i live in berlin

[caze]

i live in berlin

 

were you out and about on NYE? haven't heard of any problems there, did you notice anything?

[caze]

and if you are saying it is a cultural thing, then you are implying that every refugee at least is enabling this sort of behaviour just by identifying with that culture. i would say if it is indeed a cultural thing, it concerns global patriarchal culture much more strongly than any specific ethnic culture. regardless, no culture forces men to harass and sexually assault women beyond their will. this was a shitty, disgusting decision made by a group of shitty, disgusting individuals.

 

I don't think culture is the prime cause here, the fact that these are people living in terrible conditions (assuming it was primarily asylum seekers, whether genuine conflict refugees or economic migrants - with the latter making up the majority of the current influx) with nothing to do all day but feel despondent probably has a lot more to do with it.

 

It's silly to ignore cultural aspects entirely though, and even sillier to blame it on some global patriarchal bogey man, when people are coming from highly segregated societies like Iraq into non-segregated liberal western societies you can't seriously imagine there will be no conflict at all? Multiculturalism had a pretty poor record assimilating immigrant communities before the current influx even began, it would hardly be surprising if started to fail even more spectacularly now that the level of migration has soared exponentially.

 

It's a very tricky problem though, seeing as I wholeheartedly believe in the right of free movement of people worldwide (to a far greater degree than current laws allow), but whatever we've been doing do handle immigration in Europe really hasn't been working very well.

[pyramidpanes]

 

i live in berlin

 

were you out and about on NYE? haven't heard of any problems there, did you notice anything?

 

wasnt here for nye, back now, everything "appears" normal, will ask around about nye

[delet...]

 

 

 

@boo

1) A lot...a whole bunch of stuff

But that is an entirely separate conversation

(All problems should be addressed;

Problems don't cancel each other out)

2) Okay, sure...what is you point?

Does that mitigate the crimes or the culpability of those who committed them?

How about we stop making excuses

and stop holding people from other cultures to lower standards

Than we would anyone else

("Yeah he raped a woman, but he was being used as a political token in campaign speeches")

 

My point is that this instantly turned in to a discussion about refugees sexually assaulting women when that isn't even factual at this point. I think that's probably why it didn't get much media attention, because the details are so sketchy so really there isn't much of story... so what do we all do? We create one that matches our fears. The main concern from this incident would be how the police dealt with it quite poorly, since the women didn't feel that help was there.

every news article I read about it mentioned immigrants. it is in the police reports (or so I read).

They were described as Arab appearance or North African. People are assuming that they were desperate poor refugees but I haven't seen any reports on how they were dressed or if they were or were not speaking German / had another accent etc. Just Arab appearance. They could be economic migrants for all we know or whatev

 

They had refugee ID cards mate, watch the video I posted, it is 27 minutes and covers the issue in depth. The conversation should have moved on by now to how the female mayor started completely insnsitively victim blaming the women stating that they should keep an arms length away from the men if they don't want to get bothered, and dress less provocatively, I mean it's winter, baggy jackets the height of sexy now are they? And how there's been an huge cover up in Germany over the crimes being committed by these economic invaders, for god knows what reason, surely it can't just be dogged adherence to politically correct dogma, this is being done at an high level by the ruling elite and editorially by the German media. Like it took days before the media would even report that this happened, days and mass social media outrage at the lack of coverage, for a mass crime like this against women, the precious women that we have been enduring these past couple of years as men in the west so much shaming over our supposed treatment of, and the something like this comes along, and it's, victim blaming, don't address the problem, keep letting them all in. Germans must be jealous of places like Poland and Serbia, that weren't letting the twunts in (twunts being the fake asylum seekers from everywhere but Syria and northern Iraq (again, watch the video, although the stats are everywhere), not the genuine refugee women and children from Syria and northern Iraq that will go back there when that US proxy army daesh gets defeated by Russia), Eastern Europe had to fight back violent Muslim expansion for over a thousand years, their history will not allow their minds to be bent by weak flavour of the month PC rhetoric.

 

As I've stated before, ages ago about this issue, I think that these people are being brought in, and it is a planned and coordinated inflow, someone has turned on the tap going to these communities and assisting in geeing up the men's intrest in moving from their communities that they are already embedded in, with promises of women, wine and welfare, apartments and cars. These are radicalised youths partly on a mission from god, that will if allowed to stay will ghettoise, forment endless trouble, use their new resident status to bring millions more across to Europe using family reunion, and very soon, you will have a major problem beyond anything naive discussion by children and inepts can remedy. The new people, organised by their Saudi run mullahs will start flexing their political and social power. Then indigenous Europe will lurch far to the right, and I don't like to think about what will happen after that. So before all this happens please think deeply and openly about what is occurring here, don't hide in the sand or it won't end well, to paraphrase someone from page one. Clearly the corporate media is obfuscating, ignoring and outright lying about this as with so much of the reality these days, start using independent sources for your information, verify extraordinary claims, and for once feel some compassion for your own people.

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

 

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

 

 

yes, but my question is, how the today's society and economics would deal with such isolation?

i'm looking at some people and i see is a lot of hate, which is sad,if there's gonna be something bad in the future, hate is weakness and those people who don't see the weak who screaming for help now, is doomed already,

 

also, these attacks, a cultural difference for sure and those individuals can improved, police and the state should work harder

[Guest WNS000]

 

 

 

 

@boo

1) A lot...a whole bunch of stuff

But that is an entirely separate conversation

(All problems should be addressed;

Problems don't cancel each other out)

2) Okay, sure...what is you point?

Does that mitigate the crimes or the culpability of those who committed them?

How about we stop making excuses

and stop holding people from other cultures to lower standards

Than we would anyone else

("Yeah he raped a woman, but he was being used as a political token in campaign speeches")

My point is that this instantly turned in to a discussion about refugees sexually assaulting women when that isn't even factual at this point. I think that's probably why it didn't get much media attention, because the details are so sketchy so really there isn't much of story... so what do we all do? We create one that matches our fears. The main concern from this incident would be how the police dealt with it quite poorly, since the women didn't feel that help was there.

every news article I read about it mentioned immigrants. it is in the police reports (or so I read).

They were described as Arab appearance or North African. People are assuming that they were desperate poor refugees but I haven't seen any reports on how they were dressed or if they were or were not speaking German / had another accent etc. Just Arab appearance. They could be economic migrants for all we know or whatev

 

Germans must be jealous of places like Poland and Serbia, that weren't letting the twunts in (twunts being the fake asylum seekers from everywhere but Syria and northern Iraq)...

 

Unfortunately, some of the attackers are reportedly from Syria too. WDR reported 8 from Morocco, 5 from Iran, 4 from Syria from a bunch of 70 people searched by police.

[caze]

the genuine refugee women and children from Syria and northern Iraq that will go back there when that US proxy army daesh gets defeated by Russia

 

lol

[delet...]

 

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

yes, but my question is, how the today's society and economics would deal with such isolation?

i'm looking at some people and i see is a lot of hate, which is sad,if there's gonna be something bad in the future, hate is weakness and those people who don't see the weak who screaming for help now, is doomed already,

 

also, these attacks, a cultural difference for sure and those individuals can improved, police and the state should work harder

Here's an idea, how about they stay at home and improve there. And as for improving, of the Turks that moved to Germany in the post war period, 70% are on welfare. So we already have a clear idea what to expect, people that don't integrate and who disproportionately burden the welfare state, at a time I might add, that Europeans themselves are facing economic hardship and massive youth unemployment. Why the unceasing dogma that we have to bring them all here, it's actually far cheaper, if we are to help them, to send the money there to build their infrastructure, develop their economies, for every one we put on the dole here, dozens could have been helped at the source, so even from a touchy freely waste my tax dollars perspective, the mass immigration argument doesn't pan out.

[delet...]

 

 

 

 

 

@boo

1) A lot...a whole bunch of stuff

But that is an entirely separate conversation

(All problems should be addressed;

Problems don't cancel each other out)

2) Okay, sure...what is you point?

Does that mitigate the crimes or the culpability of those who committed them?

How about we stop making excuses

and stop holding people from other cultures to lower standards

Than we would anyone else

("Yeah he raped a woman, but he was being used as a political token in campaign speeches")

 

My point is that this instantly turned in to a discussion about refugees sexually assaulting women when that isn't even factual at this point. I think that's probably why it didn't get much media attention, because the details are so sketchy so really there isn't much of story... so what do we all do? We create one that matches our fears. The main concern from this incident would be how the police dealt with it quite poorly, since the women didn't feel that help was there.

every news article I read about it mentioned immigrants. it is in the police reports (or so I read).

They were described as Arab appearance or North African. People are assuming that they were desperate poor refugees but I haven't seen any reports on how they were dressed or if they were or were not speaking German / had another accent etc. Just Arab appearance. They could be economic migrants for all we know or whatev

Germans must be jealous of places like Poland and Serbia, that weren't letting the twunts in (twunts being the fake asylum seekers from everywhere but Syria and northern Iraq)...

Unfortunately, some of the attackers are reportedly from Syria too. WDR reported 8 from Morocco, 5 from Iran, 4 from Syria from a bunch of 70 people searched by police.

I don't know if you recall, but there was a figure from a few months ago issued by the EU that many with Syrian ID weren't actually from Syria, they picked these papers up in turkey on their way through, I think many of the Syrian men are fighting daesh, like they should be when your country is invaded. So Syria is being used as a cover for many. Of course I'm not saying that you are 100% wrong, it's just less likely, because those actually fleeing war would be less likely to be likely lads and miscreants.

[Guest]

First and foremost, and this has to be done pronto, these men should be trialed. The native germans spent at least 5 years in a federal pound me in the ass prison. The immigrants, who came here in the last 6 months, are to best sent back to their host country: i don't care, if they fuck the country that takes them in, the country has all the right to fuck them right back.

 

Then, a powerful message has to be send out that condems these actions. These men will serve as a warning for all those who are weak enough to have to rape women.

[Guest WNS000]

 

 

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

 

 

yes, but my question is, how the today's society and economics would deal with such isolation?

i'm looking at some people and i see is a lot of hate, which is sad,if there's gonna be something bad in the future, hate is weakness and those people who don't see the weak who screaming for help now, is doomed already,

 

also, these attacks, a cultural difference for sure and those individuals can improved, police and the state should work harder

 

 

Closed borders does not necessarily mean "no trading" or "no tourism". It would mean more control and more delay with border checks.

 

Yes, there is a lot of hate but rightfully so. People are frustrated with politics lying and not being able to cope with the immigration problems. People are also sick of naive and politically correct people. It is just a matter of time before some of them take "the justice" (whatever that means) in their own hands. I am afraid of that and hope for democratically elected politicians that are able to find acceptable solutions.

[Guest WNS000]

 

 

Unfortunately, some of the attackers are reportedly from Syria too. WDR reported 8 from Morocco, 5 from Iran, 4 from Syria from a bunch of 70 people searched by police.

I don't know if you recall, but there was a figure from a fe months ago issued by the EU that many with Syrian ID weren't actually from Syria, they picked these papers up in turkey on their way through, I think many of the Syrian men are fighting daesh, like they should be when your country is invaded. So Syria is being used as a cover for many. Of course I'm not saying that you are 100% wrong, it's just less likely, because those actually fleeing war would be less likely to be likely lads and miscreants.

 

 

True. I have noticed the info before but completely forgot it when typing the reply. ISIS have acquired the means to create those IDs so they look like original. A big problem for genuine refugees. Very sad and very delicate situation.

[pyramidpanes]

what a

 

 

 

 

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

 

 

yes, but my question is, how the today's society and economics would deal with such isolation?

i'm looking at some people and i see is a lot of hate, which is sad,if there's gonna be something bad in the future, hate is weakness and those people who don't see the weak who screaming for help now, is doomed already,

 

also, these attacks, a cultural difference for sure and those individuals can improved, police and the state should work harder

 

 

Closed borders does not necessarily mean "no trading" or "no tourism". It would mean more control and more delay with border checks.

 

Yes, there is a lot of hate but rightfully so. People are frustrated with politics lying and not being able to cope with the immigration problems. People are also sick of naive and politically correct people. It is just a matter of time before some of them take "the justice" (whatever that means) in their own hands. I am afraid of that and hope for democratically elected politicians that are able to find acceptable solutions.

 

 

what about re-releasing mein kampf to chill everyone out? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/copies-of-hitlers-mein-kampf-go-on-sale-in-germany-for-first-time-in-70-years

[Guest WNS000]

what a

 

 

Closed borders does not necessarily mean "no trading" or "no tourism". It would mean more control and more delay with border checks.

 

Yes, there is a lot of hate but rightfully so. People are frustrated with politics lying and not being able to cope with the immigration problems. People are also sick of naive and politically correct people. It is just a matter of time before some of them take "the justice" (whatever that means) in their own hands. I am afraid of that and hope for democratically elected politicians that are able to find acceptable solutions.

 

 

what about re-releasing mein kampf to chill everyone out? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/copies-of-hitlers-mein-kampf-go-on-sale-in-germany-for-first-time-in-70-years

 

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Care to explain?

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

 

 

 

 

close the borders (is this even possible?)

 

Yes, that is technically possible (and expensive).

 

 

yes, but my question is, how the today's society and economics would deal with such isolation?

i'm looking at some people and i see is a lot of hate, which is sad,if there's gonna be something bad in the future, hate is weakness and those people who don't see the weak who screaming for help now, is doomed already,

 

also, these attacks, a cultural difference for sure and those individuals can improved, police and the state should work harder

 

 

Closed borders does not necessarily mean "no trading" or "no tourism". It would mean more control and more delay with border checks.

 

Yes, there is a lot of hate but rightfully so. People are frustrated with politics lying and not being able to cope with the immigration problems. People are also sick of naive and politically correct people. It is just a matter of time before some of them take "the justice" (whatever that means) in their own hands. I am afraid of that and hope for democratically elected politicians that are able to find acceptable solutions.

 

of course it should be that way, after the 9/11 the risk of terrorism should be priority, i'm talking more about cultural exchanging, some people seems want just to shut off without realising that we don't live in such world anymore and this all feels like no-go, i don't see a constructive solution here, politics should work harder

[pyramidpanes]

 

what a

 

 

Closed borders does not necessarily mean "no trading" or "no tourism". It would mean more control and more delay with border checks.

 

Yes, there is a lot of hate but rightfully so. People are frustrated with politics lying and not being able to cope with the immigration problems. People are also sick of naive and politically correct people. It is just a matter of time before some of them take "the justice" (whatever that means) in their own hands. I am afraid of that and hope for democratically elected politicians that are able to find acceptable solutions.

 

 

what about re-releasing mein kampf to chill everyone out? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/copies-of-hitlers-mein-kampf-go-on-sale-in-germany-for-first-time-in-70-years

 

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Care to explain?

 

sorry for the cynical, sarcasm just realise its unfortunate timing to re publish that book, if any time is good

[eugene]

what was the typical number of NYE groping complaints before the muslim conquest of germany?