chenGOD

Lol wut? Uh no. Better?

I never claimed to be. Somewhere back there. It’s not an illuminating comparison. Unless you mean it illuminates the gap in a pretty fucking horrific place and a somewhat shitty place.

I guess so, it looks like he writes a fair bit for that paper (a left-wing paper in South Korea that has a good reputation and sizable readership, and is publicly owned).

Yeah I legit forgot, sue me. Edit: probably the reason I forgot is because Guantanamo is supposed to be some super top secret site (that doesn’t make what happens there right) whereas in China this is just, prison. It is quite easy in comparison, because it's easily observable, and it's very clear what the problem is, because transparency still exists in the US justice system even if it is fucked up. See this: https://forum.watmm.com/topic/98414-how-does-the-world-view-china-these-days/?do=findComment&comment=2866182 Except for Zeff. Again, the whole point is not to say that the US doesn't have it's problems, because surely you do (we have issues up here in Canada as well, not quite to the level of the US, but they exist), rather, a comparison with China is not valid because the situation in China is so much worse. Like it's hard to fathom how much worse it is in China. And when you have tankies spouting off ignorant bullshit about how China would never use military power to achieve foreign policy goals, or that they're a communist nation on the rise to prosperity through communism, and that we can ignore the truly horrific human rights violations because some of those same issues exist in the US, it's pretty goddamn gross. You cared enough to quote me tons, cheers ?

WATMM's favourite philosopher opines on life in the pandemic. Required listening while reading:

this is literally still happening as recently as last year. Also - here's the difference, yes those things happen in the US. In China though, it's policy and law, and people are scared to raise high hell about it, because they'll go to prison for it. And while protestors under Trump's authoritarian justice department were arrested last summer, charges against them are being dismissed in droves. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/us/protests-lawsuits-arrests.html https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f I guarantee you that does not happen in China.

Obviously the perception of the US justice system will be very different depending on socio-economic class, and as I've said - there are numerous issues with the US criminal justice system, and this is not to invalidate those experiences within that system. I'm saying that their perception of the US system does not make the comparison between the two systems (US and Chinese) legitimate. How about Flint and Detroit (not downtown Detroit)? I've been to both of those places (Detroit numerous times), seen the vacant housing, all the run-down facilities etc etc. there's still no comparison in my opinion. You're right, and I did actually forget about that, but that's also abhorrent. Arguable but you don't want to go back and forth - weird flex but whatevs. US reported incarceration rate sure, but again, the fixes are quite easy in comparison to China. Get rid of Broken Windows policing, remove stop and frisk, decriminalization of drug possession, mandatory minimums, and 3 strike laws. Some places are actually attempting to do so. In China, not so simple, because you have a lot of people in prison for doing things like criticizing the government. If the government turns around and lets those people out, they essentially sanction criticism of the CCP.

Let's see how the rest of the world looks at China, I forgot that I had all these news sources saved from previous work: India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/indian-army-strengthens-mountain-strikes-corps-looking-after-china-border/articleshow/81986152.cms https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/11th-corps-commander-talks-between-india-and-china-at-chusul/article34281541.ece Philippines https://www.manilatimes.net/2021/04/10/news/national/military-to-probe-boat-chase-in-wps/862171/ https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2021/04/09/2089982/chinese-missile-boats-drive-away-filipino-tv-crew-west-philippine-sea Malaysia https://www.nst.com.my/opinion/columnists/2021/03/673374/ensuring-freedom-navigation That's from the Ministry of Defence, where he writes: "This will not only contribute to the MDA (Marine Domain Awareness) for Malaysia and Singapore, but also to New Zealand and Australia, since both nations are surrounded by tropical waters and inherent threats of illegal activities from deep-sea Chinese fishermen. " South Korea http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2021/04/05/2021040501484.html The Chosun Ilbo is a very conservative newspaper, so they like to slam the current administration (which got spanked in recent mayoral elections) as much as they can, but their thoughts on China are very reflective of contemporary South Korean thought.

Both are bad, but zeff has in this thread said that they are the same, which I find insulting to people in HK (for example) who have had their democracy taken away from them. Whereas the recent elections in America showed that upholding democratic principles and elections can actually make a change (and no zeff, Biden and the democrats are not the same as trump and the republicans). I find it particularly insulting as well on a personal level when I have a friend locked in a cell with no access to due process, denied visitation rights, tried on vague charges (as opposed to specific offenses like you know, happens in the US), with no transparency to the process at all. America does have serious problems with policing and its criminal justice system. None of them are worse than China. The road conditions were being used as an example of infrastructure to say that the comparisons to developing nations is ridiculous. While I was comparing road conditions in present day Myanmar or Cambodia to the US, rhmilo somehow found it appropriate to bring up Indonesia in the 80s. Sure, climate conditions may seem a wild tangent, but the point is, with good governance in Indonesia, the roads and similar infrastructure would be in immaculate condition. But because of corruption and lack of investment, the roads are shit. It's only relevant because it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the issue when some will consider America as similar to a developing nation when it's actually not at all. Anyways back to jerking off into my beer.

And apparently I know more about your criminal justice system than you.

So what you're telling me is that corruption from the "leaders" of the country made sure that they had good roads outside the palace, while the rest of the country went to shit. What a surprise. As well, there should be many fewer potholes in Jakarta, as the pavement will not be subjected to the changes in temperature that exist in Washington DC.

Dedication to get naked on international TV. And the clip for those of you into that sort of stuff: (no kink shaming) https://streamable.com/or4es6

The issue there is perception. No one is here arguing that POC in the US haven’t gotten the raw end of the deal. But there is no comparison to how the justice system works in the two countries, regardless of perception.

Not to gatekeep, but if you ever actually visit a developing or poor country, you’ll understand why the comparison is wrong. Myanmar, potholes in roads out the yahoo, and the way they fix them is by having two guys with no safety equipment drive around with an open cart full of hot pitch who then shovel it into the pothole. Consistent power blackouts, no running water for a lot of the day, none of it potable, complete lack of adequate medical facilities let alone advanced medicine. Cambodia same, Thailand is good in the cities but the country side is terrible, etc etc North Korea don’t even get me started. Im guessing you visited Washington DC. Compared to Amsterdam or other Dutch cities yes not as clean, but I disagree with the decrepit description. Roads in the US are generally the responsibilities of the state or city, not the federal government, unlike the interstates, which (except for the American drivers) are a joy to drive on. The US in general (even the poverty level areas) simply cannot be compared to developing nations.

You have literally no idea how the criminal justice system works.

Going out on a limb here and gonna say you’ve never been to prison (Canadian prisons in the early 90s were grim, but still better than Chinese ones now). And never visited one in a country outside of the Netherlands (South Korean prisons in the 2000’s and today are fucking horrible places, and very similar to Chinese prisons). The fuck does me being white have anything to do with saying the comparison is ridiculous. It’s the same as when people try and call the US a 3rd world country (even if what they mean is a developing country).

Look at the numbers provided. Sure if you want to go by per capita, then yes, but total numbers are very similar and that’s just counting the official count from China.

The US having more prisoners has nothing to do with conditions in prison, nor on the ability for a defendant to have a trial conducted in a fair and transparent manner. If you had said that the US needs to stop the war on drugs and cut out Broken Windows policing, then you would have had a valid and interesting point. But trotting out the number of people imprisoned is tired, and even China’s official rate is closing the gap fast, to say nothing of the people they don’t count. https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/china https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-states-america The US criminal justice system has many issues. To say that it is comparable to China’s is gross and insulting as an argument.

It’s a ridiculous comparison, even taking into account the systemic racism built into the US justice system.

Good job you were looking out the window...FedEx is the worst....

I hope they're not using FedEx...

Love it. 90s rave breaks/garagey...sloppy as fuck mixing on the vox. Does need something to make the bins rattle though. Not a woodblock in sight!

Black men voted for Trump a bit more, yes, but the percentage was pretty minuscule. The real story was college educated white men deserting Trump in droves.

oh shit clearly the latter. I kind of forgot about that DFW collection/article...JBP has infected my brain like some sort of rotting cancer.

this is truly nightmarish to me. I cannot deal Have you considered the lobster?