toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) Can you do a drunken guitar performance? Then we can analyze ALL your chords edit: goddamn I keep getting all the page breaks lol Edited March 20, 2021 by toaoaoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, toaoaoad said: @brian trageskin B7#11 over A is just one of many possibilities yeah, because B7#11 (B lydian dominant) is just one of seven modes of the F# jazz minor scale, any of which would contain these notes. So I mean if we're getting into slash chords (i.e. calling Zephyr's chord "something over A") then we have all of the possibilities from that mode, not just B7#11. But the only actual reason we would need to call it that is if it was functioning as a B7#11. Since we still don't know anything about the function of this chord, it's nothing but an A+(add9). It's really unlikely that anyone would want to voice a B7#11 this way. I think it's also a pretty safe rule of thumb that if your chord spelling includes "omit 3 and 5" then call it something else. lol here's what i didn't get the 1st time i read this and still don't get now: why would that specific voicing be B7#11/A, instead of Db7/A like i said? do you know what i mean? i labeled the chord this way because it contains specific intervals. but in your case, where's the 3rd (Db)? why is there a 9th instead and why didn't you spell the 9th then? also, i know what you mean about the chord being derived from any of the modes of F# jazz minor but i don't get why you would analyze it as [insert F# jazz minor voicing]/A specifically, and not [insert F# jazz minor voicing] by itself. i don't know if that makes sense and yeah, i know chords are labeled according to their harmonic function in a chord progression, once again i was just trolling lol. 1st time i try to label chords btw and it shows i'm sure 1 hour ago, toaoaoad said: This is always a great idea. I'd suggest also seeing an actual human tutor from time to time if you're serious. Self-teaching can only go so far and leaves you vulnerable to blind spots. did this guy just throw a jab at me? lol yeah i completely agree. i know i wish i was studying music with actual teachers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) Because the chord contains the A string + octave the A aspect of the chord is very pronounced, and without a bass doing to the contrary, it's pretty hard to reasonably interpret it as being something other than an A chord. But with enough determination I'm sure you could. 50 minutes ago, toaoaoad said: Can you do a drunken guitar performance? Then we can analyze ALL your chords Oh man, I know exactly what song I'd do, and if this one chord analysis is any indication... the consequences would be dire and never ending. Since I'm heading into town though, chances are I'll be crashing somewhere other than my studio... so no drunken song playing tonight. *just did a quick mental tally, and the song in question contains at least 19 kind-of-jazzy different chords. Edited March 20, 2021 by Zephyr_Nova 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: why would that specific voicing be B7#11/A, instead of Db7/A like i said? do you know what i mean? i labeled the chord this way because it contains specific intervals. but in your case, where's the 3rd (Db)? why is there a 9th instead and why didn't you spell the 9th then? Db7/A is perfectly fine, you could definitely call it that, but it implies there will also be an Ab (G#) present in the chord, which is information we don't know. I was only referring to B7#11 because that's one of the main chords you were talking about in your earlier post. I don't understand the rest of your question, sorry. I should reiterate that none of these are choices I would personally make in spelling the chord, just addressing your suggestions. 18 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: also, i know what you mean about the chord being derived from any of the modes of F# jazz minor but i don't get why you would analyze it as [insert F# jazz minor voicing]/A specifically, and not [insert F# jazz minor voicing] by itself. i don't know if that makes sense Because the A is doubled in Zephyr's voicing of the chord, it emphasizes A as being an important note in the chord - in this case, the root. Also I wouldn't necessarily think specifically about F# jazz minor itself but rather any of the modes of it (A lydian augmented was the main one I suggested early on). I'm still thinking of this as being some kind of A chord. 18 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: did this guy just throw a jab at me? lol yeah i completely agree. i know i wish i was studying music with actual teachers Definitely not intended as a jab at you although I can see how it might look that way - sorry about that. I'm quite enjoying the discussion actually (not sure if anyone else is tho lol). If anything it's a jab at Clark. Edited March 20, 2021 by toaoaoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, toaoaoad said: If anything it's a jab at Clark. lol yeah i was only kidding btw so no need to apologize. i'm the first to admit i have gaping blind spots 5 minutes ago, toaoaoad said: Db7/A is perfectly fine, you could definitely call it that, but it implies there will also be an Ab (G#) present in the chord, which is information we don't know. I was only referring to B7#11 because that's one of the main chords you were talking about in your earlier post. I don't understand the rest of your question, sorry. I should reiterate that none of these are choices I would personally make in spelling the chord, just addressing your suggestions. i forgot to add (omit5), unlike i did in the previous post - Db7(omit5)/A and yeah dude, i know you would never spell the chord that way, no need to repeat that. for the last time, this wasn't me coming up with brilliant and valid labels, this was me being goofy for the sake of lulz 4 minutes ago, toaoaoad said: Because the A is doubled in Zephyr's voicing of the chord, it emphasizes A as being an important note in the chord - in this case, the root. Also I wouldn't think specifically about F# jazz minor itself but rather any of the modes of it (A lydian augmented was the main one I suggested early on). I'm still thinking of this as being some kind of A chord. got it. i forgot there was an extra A on a lower octave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, toaoaoad said: Db7/A is perfectly fine, you could definitely call it that, but it implies there will also be an Ab (G#) present in the chord, which is information we don't know. ooooh i see what you mean now. ok then. makes sense. a good instance of me having blind spots - missing blocks of knowledge edit: actually i'm not so sure i get it anymore flol. do you mean the 5th is capital to the labeling of a chord? hope that makes sense Edited March 20, 2021 by brian trageskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) It's all good man. This stuff can get pretty nebulous and it's a good thing we're both just messing around because it definitely doesn't need to be this complicated (and usually isn't) Edited March 20, 2021 by toaoaoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: edit: actually i'm not so sure i get it anymore flol. do you mean the 5th is capital to the labeling of a chord? hope that makes sense Short answer is yes. Long answer is maybe we should start our own thread lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, toaoaoad said: Short answer is yes. Long answer is maybe we should start our own thread lol maybe yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Keep that maj7 shit out of my chord. (nothing against maj7 personally, It's present in many that I use... but in this case it makes the chord unlovable.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zephyr_Nova said: Keep that maj7 shit out of my chord. (nothing against maj7 personally, It's present in many that I use... but in this case it makes the chord unlovable.) no idea who you're talking to or what you're referring to lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zephyr_Nova said: Keep that maj7 shit out of my chord. (nothing against maj7 personally, It's present in many that I use... but in this case it makes the chord unlovable.) Adding a major 7th gives us A - C# - E# - G# - B (Amaj9#5) Now there's lots more here that we could sink our teeth into, in terms of analyzing function. That said, major #5 chords are usually a "colour" chord and don't have much functional use at least in my opinion. @brian trageskin I think he's probably referring to the Db7/A option because that implies adding the G# extra note that was missing from his original chord Edited March 20, 2021 by toaoaoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: no idea who you're talking to or what you're referring to lol there was mention of a G# violating my chord and it upset me. Edited March 20, 2021 by Zephyr_Nova 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) how do we know the zeph chord isn't derived from a scale that has G# in it though? could be lydian augmented, harmonic major or whole-half for all we know even if zeph doesn't like the sound Edited March 20, 2021 by brian trageskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 I would harshly chastise any soloist who played that note over my chord... with pretty much this, verbatim: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) although in the case of harmonic major and whole/half, it's Ab to be precise Edited March 20, 2021 by brian trageskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, brian trageskin said: although in the case of harmonic major and whole/half, it's Ab to be precise No it isn't lol. You would never have an Ab in an A scale. And whole/half is ruled out as an option by the presence of C#. Do you mean whole tone scale? That would have a G natural. So anyway, Zephyr is telling us this is definitely NOT a major seventh functioning chord then. That leaves only two possibilities: A whole tone scale, or A mixolydian flat-6 (fifth mode of D jazz minor) I'm going outside now lol Edited March 20, 2021 by toaoaoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) oh fuck here we go again. my brain playing tricks on me wanna know how i managed to fuck this up? i transposed everything in C in my head, and labeled the notes starting from C. i really have to stop doing this. at this point it is shameful that i don't even know my scales. and no i meant whole/half, not whole tone Edited March 20, 2021 by brian trageskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Well you know what they say, when in doubt use the chromatic scale OK I'm really going out for real now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, toaoaoad said: A mixolydian flat-6 (fifth mode of D jazz minor) told you so (although i said Ab apparently, another example of me misremembering the chord's root btw, imagine the nerve it takes to come up with a theme like that for a tv series: 'hey how about i just run up a scale and call it a day lmao' Edited March 20, 2021 by brian trageskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 What is a drunken ama? And what is this about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, cern said: And what is this about? it's about me mislabeling chords and generally failing at music theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 It's about Asking Me Anything when I'm drunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaoaoad Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) OK some actual questions to make up for ruining your thread lol What does the name Zephyr_Nova mean to you? Since we're nerding out on music, what's your own musical background, education etc? Do you think it's weird that on an international music forum (and a pretty "niche" one) there are somehow three of us from the same relatively small city? Edited March 21, 2021 by toaoaoad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian trageskin Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, toaoaoad said: And whole/half is ruled out as an option by the presence of C# oh you're right. another instance of me analyzing stuff in C when we're in the key of A what a fucking idiot lol anyway this has been very interesting and informative to me (probably not to others lol, sorry about that). toad correcting each and every mistake i made and explaining the theory helped me spot many gaps in my knowledge, and replace my misconceptions with actual valid information. cheers man! i have much to learn /theory Edited March 21, 2021 by brian trageskin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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