Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have an idea and it goes like this; A plug-in for your media player (be it foobar, winamp, WMP..) that would enable you to easily donate to the verified* artists/bands material you're currently playing via a one-click quick & easy donation button (think paypal). *The verification system in question would use a deep wave analysis of each track and store it as an MD5 checksum in a database, that way a simple red or green icon would show the user that either it's red, meaning the track is matching a very similar one that is on the database by a different artist to the one specified in the audio files meta-tag or, A-OK for green. Some people could leak a fresh new track and tag it as their own artists name but until it is checked by the system, it would show a warning in orange. Not only that but they would have to give their payment details and that could then be tracked if someone is claiming other peoples work as their own. There is room for abuse since I could heavily modify a track and claim it as my own but I can do that regardless. The intention is aimed at the white list which would prove to be a very reliable *and* valuable means of verification because you could use it to track down the real artist behind any particular track on soulseek via it's wave pattern recognition service. - I confess, I download music, movies and whatnot - but I'd like a simple plug-in like this as I feel it would be a nice & direct way of showing your enjoyment and care for the artists material you enjoy. Ideally, the money would go straight to the artist but I understand that particular record deals are very picky so it has to go through their own means of purchase, though I suppose it could be marked as a simple donation. I realise this system would take a lot of investment mainly to get the infrastructure in place to MD5 all of these tracks, but I do think it's possible and I suppose it could be linked to some kind of bittorrent tracker. I'd have to look into it. Mockup: What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't think publishers and labels would be very happy about not seeing any of that money for "their" product. Also, the artist would have to bother to register to recieve the money on your terms, which i imagine would be tough to get certain artists to join, especially if it would cause flack with their record label. Also, depending on the quality of the audio file, the waveform differs slightly, especially with vinyl when you have pops and hisses and flutter. Your waveform recognition software would have to be extremely intelligent, and the longer the customer has to wait around for a waveform to "verify" and check out the less theyre going to feel like donating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrx Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 lol fuck that, I'm sticking to buying records and going to shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehauntingsoul Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Its definitely a fucking sick idea but I agree with 420range about the plausibility of it. I don't know alot about waveform analysis but I'm assuming that it would need to be incredibly accurate to avoid any sort of errors of cross-verification. Its a great idea in principle, though, and I'm sure that this could work in some way, shape or form. I think it might make more sense in the future one record labels lose their power. I'm sure it will happen because now with the internet and digital music you don't need labels to manufacture and market cds as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks for your replies. I actually spent ages typing it up. I took the wave recognition idea from existing (and notably, working) sites such as: http://www.whatsthattune.co.uk/ From the little I know, it seems to be extremely reliable. My friend owns an iphone, one 'app' in particular records the audio from the microphone, processes it and gives the track artist and name. I thought nothing of it until he showed me a working example whilst we were in the pub. A song was playing on a real shit stereo and we weren't sitting close, he recorded a 5 section section and it come back after 10 seconds to connect via gprs and gave the *correct* title and track name, I was amazed. 42Orange Icon: Regarding the record label deals, yes this is a major hurdle. Perhaps it could just be for unsigned artists at first? Regarding 'waiting ages for it to process'; the plug-in could be run in the background to scan all mp3's within a chosen directory. Thanks again for your thoughtful comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Maybe if you simplified it down to ID tags, so if the artist now playing is signed into your donation databse, they could donate that way. It'd be best to route donations through the label the album is released on, and i'm sure theyd demand a cut (but the donor doesnt have to know that), and once the label is involved, all the other artists on that same label are probably a shoe-in. If an ID tag doesnt match up perfectly with the database, a suggestion could be offered of the closest match, with a 5 second preview availible to make sure the song that is tagged is actually the song the artist wrote (so if the song doesnt match the sample the donor can decline to donate). But this way, the artist can't recieve any donations for unsigned/unreleased tracks, and labels cant reap money from tracks they didnt publish. I actually think that sometimes the labels could use the money more than the artist, a broke label stops releasing/promoting material, but a broke artist usually keeps making tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 If a particular artist wanted to reap the 'benefits' of being able to have their new tracks on the internet with this plug-in enabled to allow people to donate, they could just make a new artist name if they were so inclined. (Their record label would never know) I think for the time being a much simpler version could work which would only facilitate unsigned artists, as like you say - the corporate world is a bit of a legal web and it's not a simple 'we'll do this and they'll have to follow'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymershapes Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I must be missing something... why this complication of analyzing the waveform to verify the track.. why not just a searchable database of artists. surely you the listener know what song/artist you are listening to and want to donate to. why does it have to have anything to do with what you're listening to at the moment? say i just want to randomly chuck autechre a few dollars, whether i'm listening to their mp3 or not? i've been saying for years that artists should just put up a paypal donate button on their sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I must be missing something... why this complication of analyzing the waveform to verify the track.. why not just a searchable database of artists. surely you the listener know what song/artist you are listening to and want to donate to. why does it have to have anything to do with what you're listening to at the moment? say i just want to randomly chuck autechre a few dollars, whether i'm listening to their mp3 or not? i've been saying for years that artists should just put up a paypal donate button on their sites. If you want to donate to any artist you buy their CD's, if you don't want to pay much at all, you expect a donate button on their website like you say, however: - Trying to find an artists site is a bit of a hassle and much more time consuming than literally a one-button-click from your media player. - An artist who does want a donate button on their website has to faff around adding one. - By adding a centralised system that works on a multitude of platforms & programs, you cut out the work load for both parties making it easier to give your money. As for the wave forms - ever used soulseek and downloaded an mp3 that isn't tagged? or even incorrectly tagged? I have, plenty & especially when it comes to artists like aphex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 If there could be some sort of taggable ID in the file, the artists could release a track via P2P, anybody could download it and via their player software, make a donation of any amount for the track (or for an entire release or discography). You could even set up a "pay for play" system in the media players where each time a track is played, a set amount (.02 or .03 cents a song for instance) goes to that artist (from a pre-determined 'account' on the user's player, linked to a credit card or PayPal account). It's a great idea, actually - I'd think more about it and develop it further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benedict Cumberbatch Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i like this track i think i'll donate $2. lol awful idea sorry stop thinking of music as a commodity. music is free. musicians earn a living by either touring or selling their music to adverts/movies etc. selling out yes but selling. is an mp3 really worth anything? we need to move on from music being something you pay for, only then can we really figure out the new model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i like this track i think i'll donate $2. lol awful idea sorry stop thinking of music as a commodity. music is free. musicians earn a living by either touring or selling their music to adverts/movies etc. selling out yes but selling. is an mp3 really worth anything? we need to move on from music being something you pay for, only then can we really figure out the new model I've never thought of it as paying for the song (as in owning it - the artist always owns his or her work), but more for 'using' it, or the privilege of hearing it. I think this applies especially these days with Mp3s and non-tangible products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 im not sure if this is particularly the idea to change the way money and music works, but no doubt it will be forced to change soon enough, so keep thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benedict Cumberbatch Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 or the privilege of hearing it. lol. dude. lol. thank you oh lord wisp for allowing me to hear teddy oggie. here is $2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Will the system facilitating donations be taking a cut?? Because there will definitely be some overhead costs -- You'd probably need a co-located server at least. How much CPU time/storage is needed to crunch through thousands of MP3s and generate checksums? You're probably going to need something more complicated than MD5 -- some serious coding went into that tune ID site, I wager. Has that tune ID web site patented everything? (will you get sued for that, or anything else?) Is this a public service, or are you starting a biz? Are you gonna program it? Really, it's just setting up another middleman, and the music industry already has a huge excess of middlemen. My vote is for a paypal button on the site. I've never thought of it as paying for the song (as in owning it - the artist always owns his or her work), but more for 'using' it, or the privilege of hearing it. I think this applies especially these days with Mp3s and non-tangible products. attitudes like that will have us one day paying fees to enjoy a sunset or the ocean, because some bought the "rights" to it. the only way to truly control a song is to never release it, or better yet -- keep it in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benedict Cumberbatch Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i enjoyed your opinion hahathhat. can i donate you $2 please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blicero Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Can we get a donate button for each post on WATMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i enjoyed your opinion hahathhat. can i donate you $2 please? of course -- my paypal button is always open, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 why all this nonsense about audio analysis? just make an md5 hash of the file and compare it to a central database Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ego Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I would love a database with artistnames and paypal accounts. Everything else seems like a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 why all this nonsense about audio analysis? just make an md5 hash of the file and compare it to a central database Because someone could take a popular track, rename it as their own and they'd get other artists pay. By using a wave form MD5 you'd be able to tell who the real artist is. You wouldn't want to donate if you knew a faker was stealing money. Obviously as I said before you could modify a track a whole lot and then go on from there - but by having to do that to get passed a legit track, it would cut down the popularity of it. hahathhat: This is partially an attempt for removing the middlemen, it's financially supporting the artists in the most direct manner possible (if they aren't signed up to a tight record deal). And anyway, why should record deals even stop people giving their money away to the composer(s)? It's a complement, like a tip at a restaurant. If the particular artist feels the need to financially support their own label, they in turn could donate. It's getting a bit messy but I don't personally see this idea taking off in a huge way, rather a small niche' market that: a ) isn't going to pay £10/15 for a whole album b ) prefers other means of acquiring the music such as torrenting instead of post/retail shopping c ) doesn't want to donate if the record label takes the majority of the cut and d ) feels guilty of not paying a penny to their favourite artists they listen to daily. The fact is, more and more people just simply never pay for music. Spotify hasn't really helped because instead of trying to get people to pay - they just chuck you ads. It's a brilliant app that I love but it hasn't made me want to buy tracks/albums as a) it's still a bit fussy (it doesn't let you download tracks like itunes) and b ) I have to pay X amount for a whole album that I know the cash won't reach the artist in a very direct manner. I'd love to be able to click 'paypal donate X amount' Bottom line; I think it will help encourage people get used to paying for music again. It could even be linked up to last.fm's scrobble feature so that when you've played a track 100x or more it automatically deducts X amount from your paypal. I would love a database with artistnames and paypal accounts. Everything else seems like a waste of time. Well, I'd even be happy with this, but if you have the ability to donate to so and so artist, then someone may as well develop a plug-in to most media players that connects to them directly for an easy, quick and convenient way to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy_politics Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 is an mp3 really worth anything? An mp3 is worth something.. But not 79p/99p or £7.99 for an album. The cost of hosting and transfer is microscopic, something in the order of 0.05p for an average sized track. mp3 is pure profit, the cost of buying them should reflect this, especially seeing as a lot of commercial music is easily available for nothing. If I could obtain a track for 5p/album for 50p I'd spend a lot more money, and make a lot more impulse buys of digital music. As it stands, a CD or vinyl is way better value for money, and I only buy them when I really like what's on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshier Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 An mp3 is worth something.. But not 79p/99p or £7.99 for an album. The cost of hosting and transfer is microscopic, something in the order of 0.05p for an average sized track. mp3 is pure profit, the cost of buying them should reflect this, especially seeing as a lot of commercial music is easily available for nothing. If I could obtain a track for 5p/album for 50p I'd spend a lot more money, and make a lot more impulse buys of digital music. As it stands, a CD or vinyl is way better value for money, and I only buy them when I really like what's on them. And this is where the niche' market I have in mind is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Sensi Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i've thought of something like this before.... it will happen eventually... and I can't wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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