SR4 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 well said. i think i can get behind that. but see, I still gotta give massive respect to Nicholson and Burton, because that movie completely altered expectations of what a superhero movie was forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 i love how as it gets closer to release (the marketing tracking must be failing to meet their expectations) they just keep focusing more on more on the bat plane shit, to make sure little kids watching know about batman's new toy. It's truly hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The Dark Knight is not a bad movie nor a great movie, it's a 'good' movie ill give it that. Like a lot of other christopher nolan movies, elements of it are fantastic, haunting and beautifully shot. The dark knight was filled to the brim with excellent moments like this, but the movie as a whole just doesn't work, narratively and pacing wise it is a mess. The joker disappears during the final act after batman hangs him upside-down (are we to assume he was arrested and stayed in jail this time, why do we never see it? ). Harvey Dent's transformation into Two face was rushed and extremely unbelievable. He goes from angry district attorney to disfigured attempted child murderer in less than 48 hours? I mean what the fucking hell. I'm not really sure what Nolan was going for with the Dark Knight but it's hard to tell, the focus is so strangely off kilter the whole time. Why not just make it the Joker's movie? It also seems to be missing quite a bit of the horror that even Nicholson's joker employed in the Burton Batman. The joker in that movie tries to murder an entire street full of people, and he also murders all of the occupants of an art museum. We don't see the Joker in Dark Knight actually directly kill any innocent civilians except for one at the very beginning, he spends more time killing other bad guys. Its just so weightless it's not even funny, but its made tolerable by Ledger's great acting. For a movie that's trying to be 'darker' and more serious than Tim Burton's batman, it in the end comes off as less creepy, less horrifying and the threatening vibe of the joker more toothless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I mostly agree with your points about Two-Face...I find that to be the weakest part of the movie (that and Batman's ridiculous speech in his grunty voice at the end) but, i will say that people in reality have had psychotic breaks from far less than getting half of your face burnt off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 acting wise i almost agree with (what poster said about Nicholson being wrong for the part perhaps) , but the reverse problem exists for how the character was written and employed in the Dark Knight, he's just not very threatening even though his acting and characterization seems more vicious. His actions were far less damaging than the Joker in Burton's batman ultimately. Even Scarecrow and Ras A Ghul seemed more dangerous than the Jokerin the Dark Knight. I mean Ras just walks into Wayne's fucking house at the end and burns it down, the joker doesn't even get close to being that threatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie5fingers Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The Dark Knight is not a bad movie nor a great movie, it's a 'good' movie ill give it that. Like a lot of other christopher nolan movies, elements of it are fantastic, haunting and beautifully shot. The dark knight was filled to the brim with excellent moments like this, but the movie as a whole just doesn't work, narratively and pacing wise it is a mess. The joker disappears during the final act after batman hangs him upside-down (are we to assume he was arrested and stayed in jail this time, why do we never see it? ). Harvey Dent's transformation into Two face was rushed and extremely unbelievable. He goes from angry district attorney to disfigured attempted child murderer in less than 48 hours? I mean what the fucking hell. I'm not really sure what Nolan was going for with the Dark Knight but it's hard to tell, the focus is so strangely off kilter the whole time. Why not just make it the Joker's movie? It also seems to be missing quite a bit of the horror that even Nicholson's joker employed in the Burton Batman. The joker in that movie tries to murder an entire street full of people, and he also murders all of the occupants of an art museum. We don't see the Joker in Dark Knight actually directly kill any innocent civilians except for one at the very beginning, he spends more time killing other bad guys. Its just so weightless it's not even funny, but its made tolerable by Ledger's great acting. For a movie that's trying to be 'darker' and more serious than Tim Burton's batman, it in the end comes off as less creepy, less horrifying and the threatening vibe of the joker more toothless I like this^. see, the whole point behind Joker is that he found hilarity in death. He thought it was funny to kill people. that its a joke. thats what makes him so brutal. but on top of that he never actually despised or hated anyone. Nolan's Joker never showed this. His Joker was dark but acted out of anger. he felt that the people of Gotham were a plight and needed to be extinguished, especially Batman. Thats not at all how Joker acted. the Joker actually loved Batman (now there is the scene where joker was talking to harvey, but what he said there was not how he acted throughout the movie). Burton's Joker was closer to the "real" one because Nicholson showed that he enjoyed killing people. (like the handbuzzer scene). that it was funny to kill people and that he wanted to kill people to laugh, not to prove anything. though Nolan did show that Joker was a very complex person and that no one could ever "truly" understand him. (the thing with the scars). if someone wanted to make the perfect Joker they would combine both of these portrayals. and the reason Nolan didn't show what happened after batman caught Joker was cause Heath caught a serious case of DEATH. and that scene wasn't made yet. also, the reason Nolan Rushed Two face was because no one wanted to watch a 5 hour movie. he really shouldn't have mushed to very distinct bad guys into one movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 well i guess thats where I got the Shakespearian jester vibe from. Nolan's Joker doesn't seek to kill to just get a laugh out of it all; he thrives on making people realize that they are capable of the same evil he readily embraces 24/7, and that is the joke. Note that most of his big elaborate schemes were all predicated on the idea that the citizenry would tear themselves apart due to a basic fear or need for vengeance. Hence, Joker's plans are all nothing more than attempting to hold up a mirror to the society. He doesn't hate society, he loves it. He even says once he's caught how much fun he was having, and that they would have to do it again (i still sorta cringe whenever Ledger says that line.) He loves society because we built it to delude ourselves that we are more than base reactive, primordial emotional responses. In a really weird tangent, its like, Marx loved capitalism, because he knew it was necessary for everything before it to fall apart. So again, to come full circle, its like the court jester showing the idiocy and the vanity of the protagonists, and the ideals/moral structures these protagonists claim to protect and uphold. Im not saying either Marx or The Joker is correct, but Im trying to explain their mindsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 like, why does he constantly tell different stories about the scars? Perhaps its because, despite our wanting to know the reason behind him being scarred, the truth of the matter is that searching for a reason is delusional, a means to cover up admitting that the actual act of violence had occurred against another human being. If society can find reason for these actions, it would follow that society can act reasonably in getting rid of these actions. Thus The Joker's perception that society is a hilarious delusional state of a primeval human mind. ok, now i sound like a poor man's zizek. sorry everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie5fingers Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 well i guess thats where I got the Shakespearian jester vibe from. Nolan's Joker doesn't seek to kill to just get a laugh out of it all; he thrives on making people realize that they are capable of the same evil he readily embraces 24/7, and that is the joke. Note that most of his big elaborate schemes were all predicated on the idea that the citizenry would tear themselves apart due to a basic fear or need for vengeance. Hence, Joker's plans are all nothing more than attempting to hold up a mirror to the society. He doesn't hate society, he loves it. He even says once he's caught how much fun he was having, and that they would have to do it again (i still sorta cringe whenever Ledger says that line.) He loves society because we built it to delude ourselves that we are more than base reactive, primordial emotional responses. In a really weird tangent, its like, Marx loved capitalism, because he knew it was necessary for everything before it to fall apart. So again, to come full circle, its like the court jester showing the idiocy and the vanity of the protagonists, and the ideals/moral structures these protagonists claim to protect and uphold. Im not saying either Marx or The Joker is correct, but Im trying to explain their mindsets. yeah, and i think your right with this assumption. thats why i liked the Burton Joker better. cause like i said before, it was the only one closest to depicting what the Joker in the Comics was like. He killed for fun. thats it. not to show everyone else that they could become like him. like with your mirror metaphor. but both Jokers did have their flaws. Burton's was comical but lacked in darkness. while Nolan's was Dark but lacked the Comedic part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 the only good batman is the animated series. i think begins is the best we've gotten on film, but all the batman movies kind of suck. the burton ones are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The entire premise of a live action comic book movie is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I dunno, I thought Ghost World and Oldboy were pretty good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Scott Pilgrim's pretty good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Scott Pilgrim was crap... why make a live action comic book movie, when you can just animate comic book movies? I think that approach makes something more real than the plastic comic book stuff we see usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 For visual originality, there's no other comic-book movie close to SP. The subject matter might be saccharine and teenage, it can probably put a lot of people off. Michael Cera can apparently be pretty divisive too. The comic is actually more laid-back than the film in style, but Edgar Wright took the hint of Japanese-Manga and made something bigger out of it. Plus, the soundtrack is great too, but you have to be in a nostalgic-for-teenage-years mood. Hell Boy is pretty decent too. It's never offensive in trying to maintain your attention. Very confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie5fingers Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 the only good batman is the animated series. you win. The animated series was unbelievably amazing. i still watch it to this day. the voices were perfect and Mark Hamill's laugh, AMAZING! TNBA wasn't too bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaksta303 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The entire premise of a live action comic book movie is just ridiculous. Coming from you, so is this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 the only good batman is the animated series. you win. The animated series was unbelievably amazing. i still watch it to this day. the voices were perfect and Mark Hamill's laugh, AMAZING! TNBA wasn't too bad either. i wouldn't say its the only good one, but it is without a doubt the best one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The entire premise of a live action comic book movie is just ridiculous. Millions of fans and Hollywood movie execs seem to disagree with that statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The entire premise of a live action comic book movie is just ridiculous. Millions of fans and Hollywood movie execs seem to disagree with that statement... Alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blir Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nothing makes me happier than seeing a mentally deranged man running around the streets at night, dressed as a bat and armed with numerous clever gadgets, beating up criminal scum (except maybe blowjobs, gin and cheeseburgers). With that in mind, I'm looking forward to this movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nothing makes me happier than seeing a mentally deranged man running around the streets at night, dressed as a bat and armed with numerous clever gadgets, beating up criminal scum (except maybe blowjobs, gin and cheeseburgers). With that in mind, I'm looking forward to this movie. lol this is a fantastic mindset going into a Batman movie. Im doing this for the upcoming one, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie5fingers Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Nothing makes me happier than seeing a mentally deranged man running around the streets at night, dressed as a bat and armed with numerous clever gadgets, beating up criminal scum (except maybe blowjobs, gin and cheeseburgers). With that in mind, I'm looking forward to this movie. lol this is a fantastic mindset going into a Batman movie. Im doing this for the upcoming one, thanks! im pretty sure this was almost the same mindset Paul Reubens was in before his little "incedent" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 further reason to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Press screenings earlier today. Obviously it's hard to gauge with only a few (probably biased because they feel lucky to be invited early) commentators, but apparently it's going to be a 9.5/10. Better than, but very different to TDK. No Robin. But allegedly the final fight scene is one-of-a-kind. Even some use of slow-motion for epic-effect. Obviously, fanboys are mentioning Oscar's. I'm not sure about that, but if TDK supposedly got pretty close and if nothing else stakes a claim, then maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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