Americans & Indians

[acidphakist]

They might be, they might not be. But that doesn't change the fact that saying "culture evolves. deal with it." in regards to a culture that was not allowed to evolve is a massively idiotic, insensitive, and downright fucktarded thing to say.

 

This is the jungle, darling.

 

ok, thanks Axl

 

lol I don't understand the reference but it's funny anyway.

[TiffanyHalderman]

guns n roses

 

you are an idiot

[acidphakist]

guns n roses

 

you are an idiot

 

 

Lol I don't like metal.

 

And you are hot.

[chim]

Thanks for the great anecdotes and sentiments, people.

 

Hey guys, let's think about this one.

 

Say you find out for a fact that your ancestors (like 100-200 years ago) got to where you are now by totally exploiting a certain family. In a really bad way. Now you are well off, and they've been at almost starvation level for a few generations now.

 

Would you try to help them out in some way or would you say it was your ancestor's fault, not yours? Would you even dare contacting them (let's say the were not aware of why something destroyed their social standard).

 

Scary, right?

 

I thought this was the whole point of white guilt? When you bring in multiple generations it's usually difficult to rectify things.. The fact that you're not doing anything bad yourself is usually a bad excuse, but it doesn't have to mean that you're a bad person so to speak..

 

There just isn't enough guilt these days

 

I don't know if guilt is necessary. You have to move on.. but also be aware. Guilt that doesn't inspire action is pointless.

 

They might be, they might not be. But that doesn't change the fact that saying "culture evolves. deal with it." in regards to a culture that was not allowed to evolve is a massively idiotic, insensitive, and downright fucktarded thing to say.

 

I agree, it's missing the point. Humans being knowitalls about the workings of nature

 

I believe this type of tragic outcome, in the context of cultural evolution, is a misdirected effort based in our drive to excel and flourish combined with total lack of understanding of different cultures. To say that cultural evolution "works this way" is absolutely ridiculous. If that was the case, the whole planet would be at war right now. Maybe we're just not that smart at times to see what's best in the larger picture - possibly for the human genome as a whole, which, if I'm not mistaken, is at some level the purpose of our cultural evolution.

 

one thing i remember pissing me off is when drug legislation comes into conflict with tribal ceremony. there was a court case a decade or so ago where a shaman faced jail time for distribution of hallucinogens....not making this shit up.

 

 

 

FOR FUCKS SAKE IT GROWS IN THE FUCKING GROUND PEOPLE

 

I thought they were allowed to have peyote or some shit as part of their religion? Or is that really recent?

[acidphakist]

I agree, it's missing the point. Humans being knowitalls about the workings of nature

 

OK, what IS the point? Try to keep it under 10 paragraphs.

[Guest disparaissant]

 

 

You are clearly ragging if you think your opinion on my standpoint is FACT.

I never said it was fact, hon, I said it was fucktarded.

[acidphakist]

 

 

You are clearly ragging if you think your opinion on my standpoint is FACT.

I never said it was fact, hon, I said it was fucktarded.

 

 

"But that doesn't change the fact that "

 

:)

[Guest hahathhat]

But I dunno, tribes still engage in traditions, pow wows especially. Their culture's been preserved in museums and academia just as much as it has been re-apprioated and exploited.

 

i can't help but suspect it's but meaningless repetition of what their parents did, and doesn't hold much meaning for people any more... but they stick with it, because the only other reality available is the trailer park. which would you rather be, an old and storied tribe, or some dude in a government trailer park?

 

i keep waiting for the amish to disappear. they're doing a bit better, but the kids seem to hate it there.

[chim]

I agree, it's missing the point. Humans being knowitalls about the workings of nature

 

OK, what IS the point? Try to keep it under 10 paragraphs.

 

It's not that easy of an issue. Being a human means that you're just a cog in this big clusterfuck we call reality. Facing a complex historical issue like this and resorting to distancing yourself and saying that's just how nature works and I know for a fact that it does is a really bad cop-out in my opinion, and suggests that you're shutting off yourself emotionally out of deeper reasons.. I'm not saying this applies to you specifically in this situation, but that's my usual impression when I see a response like that.

 

The sad fact is that sometimes you lose things you really didn't have to lose.

 

The good fact is that we can learn from eachother's perspectives regarding these things, and maybe that with there being room for improvement means that we have something to look forward to.

[Guest disparaissant]

 

 

You are clearly ragging if you think your opinion on my standpoint is FACT.

I never said it was fact, hon, I said it was fucktarded.

 

 

"But that doesn't change the fact that "

 

:)

Touche.

Still fucktarded.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

i keep waiting for the amish to disappear. they're doing a bit better, but the kids seem to hate it there.

The Amish have a birth rate well above the national average. They are in fact growing rapidly as a group and expanding to new states - including Alaska - and even out of the U.S. to Mexico.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/29/national/main6723886.shtml

 

[Guest hahathhat]

i keep waiting for the amish to disappear. they're doing a bit better, but the kids seem to hate it there.

The Amish have a birth rate well above the national average. They are in fact growing rapidly as a group and expanding to new states - including Alaska - and even out of the U.S. to Mexico.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/29/national/main6723886.shtml

 

 

shows what i know !

i just recall seeing some article about the segment of amish kids that didn't want to be amish and thinking, "yeah, i wouldn't want to stick around either, after i saw an xbox..."

[chim]

i keep waiting for the amish to disappear. they're doing a bit better, but the kids seem to hate it there.

The Amish have a birth rate well above the national average. They are in fact growing rapidly as a group and expanding to new states - including Alaska - and even out of the U.S. to Mexico.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/29/national/main6723886.shtml

 

 

shows what i know !

i just recall seeing some article about the segment of amish kids that didn't want to be amish and thinking, "yeah, i wouldn't want to stick around either, after i saw an xbox..."

Rumspringa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n518iLqRekM

 

LOL scary, I was just reading up on rumspringa and that doc. Apparently 90% of the amish kids stay amish. Obviously the world is a scary place when you've been raised amish until you're 16.

 

The reason the amish are growing (and why there are so many fanatic religious morons around), is because they love having shitloads of kids. How many atheists have you met that have 4+ kids?

[Salvatorin]

I come into contact w/ urban native alaskans all the time. They and mixed race folks make up the biggest portion of lower income people (and therefore public services users) in fairbanks. Rural native alaska have a completely different situation than the native americans down in the lower 48 because of the numerous bush villages that still practice the subsistence lifestyle. The problem of climate change is fucking up the society though. One village on an island had to be evacuated completely a year ago because of permafrost erosion.

[joshuatxuk]

i keep waiting for the amish to disappear. they're doing a bit better, but the kids seem to hate it there.

The Amish have a birth rate well above the national average. They are in fact growing rapidly as a group and expanding to new states - including Alaska - and even out of the U.S. to Mexico.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/29/national/main6723886.shtml

 

 

shows what i know !

i just recall seeing some article about the segment of amish kids that didn't want to be amish and thinking, "yeah, i wouldn't want to stick around either, after i saw an xbox..."

Rumspringa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n518iLqRekM

 

LOL scary, I was just reading up on rumspringa and that doc. Apparently 90% of the amish kids stay amish. Obviously the world is a scary place when you've been raised amish until you're 16.

 

The reason the amish are growing (and why there are so many fanatic religious morons around), is because they love having shitloads of kids. How many atheists have you met that have 4+ kids?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA

[karmakramer]

 

pendelton blankets :ceephax:

[DerWaschbar]

I come into contact w/ urban native alaskans all the time. They and mixed race folks make up the biggest portion of lower income people (and therefore public services users) in fairbanks. Rural native alaska have a completely different situation than the native americans down in the lower 48 because of the numerous bush villages that still practice the subsistence lifestyle. The problem of climate change is fucking up the society though. One village on an island had to be evacuated completely a year ago because of permafrost erosion.

 

It's pretty similar here in Yukon, with bush villages and subsistence. All the native folks I have met have been lovely and kind. They seem more or less adapted the same as the rest of the population but retain some culture and traditions as we all do. I think things up here are a little different from general lack of development and that the only highway that runs from the south up to the middle of the territory was constructed in 1942, so the culture here was left relatively free from outside influence (exceptions of residential schooling etc. still apply to my knowledge).

This is all generalizing and I know some are more ardent about the culture and I have heard a few stories of racism against whites, but it's only hearsay. My

Substance abuse rates are high amongst native peoples all across Canada and like the US they receive tax breaks and special hunting and fishing rights.

 

Another interesting, albeit controversial read is 'A little matter of genocide' by Ward Churchill. It's a little inflammatory, but I found it an interesting read nevertheless.

 

I'll add that in my experience with hitchhiking in Canada you are almost as likely to get a ride from a native person as you are from a white person, which is significant given the size of the population.

 

Unrelated: Salvatorin, if I sent you money would you mail me some American Spirit rolling tobacco? :)

[karmakramer]

I hate American Spirit tobacco, but hey, lets have a drink

 

 

cheers

[DerWaschbar]

Hah, I am having drink. Cheers.

Now back to the Injuns.

[Salvatorin]

 

This is all generalizing and I know some are more ardent about the culture and I have heard a few stories of racism against whites, but it's only hearsay. My

Substance abuse rates are high amongst native peoples all across Canada and like the US they receive tax breaks and special hunting and fishing rights.

 

Unrelated: Salvatorin, if I sent you money would you mail me some American Spirit rolling tobacco? :)

 

Yeah in the villages themselves there is a lot of racism against whites, especially the state troopers who are there to keep things in order. But in the end most people out in a the village are pretty much in the same boat so alienating people doesn't really help the community at all. Yeah and alcohol abuse is really common among natives, but equally among every other ethnic group in alaska...and for that matter in Alaska ethnic groups barely seem to matter after a certain point.

[DerWaschbar]

Yeah, substance abuse is well celebrated by all groups in the north it seems. I know of at least one dry native community.

[marf]

i get all my room temperature meats from my amish butcher

[luke viia]

A few years ago, I was hooking up with this girl that was partly (mostly) from an Alaskan tribe... when we'd go out and drink she'd get tanked fucking FAST. I asked her what was up, and she said that natives have only been introduced to alcohol in the last few hundred years, unlike whites, who have been drinking it for thousands of years. They get addicted to it really easily; their bodies do not know how to deal with it like Europeans do.

 

I have no idea how true that last part is, but it made sense while she was naked.

[dr lopez]

edit. well maybe not. i have no idea.

[chim]

Wow, that's crazy. Makes sense though doesn't it?

 

edit: Nice quick edit there lopez but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true that their genetics made them vulnerable to alcohol. Maybe they're more resistant to crazy bush plants.