2020 US Election

[exitonly]

4 minutes ago, may be rude said:

it's not surprising that fbi informants were at the capitol on january 6th of 2021. it would be surprising if there weren't. what's interesting is propagandists using that to distract people about what happened. 

yeah the fbi infiltrates groups all the time. it would be a bigger issue here if the fbi initiated the coup attempt but if they had people on the inside already i wouldn’t be surprised they went along with it, at least in terms of showing up. not saying i necessarily condone any of this. 

[Rubin Farr]

 

[Rubin Farr]

Likely another grift

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-hurricane-helene-victims-with-president-trump

[decibal cooper]

11 hours ago, exitonly said:

yeah the fbi infiltrates groups all the time. it would be a bigger issue here if the fbi initiated the coup attempt but if they had people on the inside already i wouldn’t be surprised they went along with it, at least in terms of showing up. not saying i necessarily condone any of this. 

i do not trust them. they do infiltrate groups you are right, and they have a history of doing very illegal things proceeding from this on american soil including political assassinations, like cointelpro, where the feds used the Chicago police department to murder Fred Hampton in 1969. There are also lots of cases on public record in america where they entrap people to commit acts of terrorism, which Chris Morris made a satiric comedy film about.

[may be rude]

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

i do not trust them. they do infiltrate groups you are right, and they have a history of doing very illegal things proceeding from this on american soil including political assassinations, like cointelpro, where the feds used the Chicago police department to murder Fred Hampton in 1969. There are also lots of cases on public record in america where they entrap people to commit acts of terrorism, which Chris Morris made a satiric comedy film about.

so the fbi (under trump) faked jan 6 to frame trump? because they're the deep state? or what? 

i mean that's ridiculous. i'm sorry but i should be clear. it's nonsensical. 

tucker carlson was getting people thinking shit like that, if you're wondering where the narrative comes from. he's one of these guys harvesting crazy narratives from the internet and mainstreaming them to be a successful fox host, subverting reality, laughing shrilly as he misleads and confuses people. quite a demented figure.

Edited 11 hours ago by may be rude

[exitonly]

3 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

i do not trust them. they do infiltrate groups you are right, and they have a history of doing very illegal things proceeding from this on american soil including political assassinations, like cointelpro, where the feds used the Chicago police department to murder Fred Hampton in 1969. There are also lots of cases on public record in america where they entrap people to commit acts of terrorism, which Chris Morris made a satiric comedy film about.

i don’t trust them either but agreeing with @may be rude here that i don’t think jan 6 was an inside job. it’s incredibly obvious that trump stoked an angry mob for months on end and it got completely out of control, and then he didn’t call in any backup for 4-6 hours

[decibal cooper]

22 minutes ago, exitonly said:

i don’t trust them either but agreeing with @may be rude here that i don’t think jan 6 was an inside job. it’s incredibly obvious that trump stoked an angry mob for months on end and it got completely out of control, and then he didn’t call in any backup for 4-6 hours

I would also argue against them planning it out in a 100% premeditated way, but that don’t change the fact that there were a bunch of plain clothes feds there. They definitely could have been fanning the flames for people to begin becoming violent or encouraging people to enter the capital. There is also a bunch of video surveillance of the trump supporters just being escorted into the capital building, just being let in by guards. I honestly do not even think that Jan 6 is motivating voters at this point, but I am still curious about what really happened that day and how the feds were or were not involved

[ignatius]

9 hours ago, Rubin Farr said:

 

hillary outspent donald too. trump had a shitty ground game in 2016 as well... 

[Rubin Farr]

1 hour ago, ignatius said:

hillary outspent donald too. trump had a shitty ground game in 2016 as well... 

I believe she's referring to retaliatory polls, which seem to always materialize right after an unfavorable poll to Trump.

[auxien]

1 hour ago, ignatius said:

hillary outspent donald too. trump had a shitty ground game in 2016 as well... 

the other common factor here is that they’re both women and America is still very sexist, whether they want to admit or not. Obama was pointing it out in that ‘brothers’ video recently, specifically in regards to men of color of course. 

[ignatius]

10 minutes ago, auxien said:

the other common factor here is that they’re both women and America is still very sexist, whether they want to admit or not. Obama was pointing it out in that ‘brothers’ video recently, specifically in regards to men of color of course. 

that was a 15 minute speech/pep talk to campaign workers at a campaign office but yeah.. i thin khe made tha tpoint to some effect.. at least that's what the media picked up on and ran with. 

hillary got 3 million more votes than donald and still lost... if her campaign had paid attention at all to wisconsin and michigan she might've won but they took it for granted and i don't think visited much to hear those people out or speak to their needs. 

but the electorate is consistently voting against its own best interests and certainly isn't going to prioritize people outside the USA and what US foreign policy does to them... it never really has.. but there's no good choice for a candidate to hear that message anyways.. it's not like jill stein isn't a fucking stooge full of gooheaded nonsense other than "stop back israel" which is what she's jumped on because she's getting attention for that and will pull some votes from democrat electorate in protest over that issue.. which is justified obviously but comes at a cost.. it's not like trump will be any better on that issue and will likely be worse and bomb iran at first opportunity if he becomes president again. 

people say there's no harm reduction argument in this election because of what kamala will be like w/israel... but trump will be worse.. .and domestically seems ready to deport his own wife and throw every non white not straight person under the bus and into prison or whatever... 

blah.. it's a shitshow.. i hope it ends soon. america is just fucking brain rotted to the core in many ways and so many people are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. 

[may be rude]

3 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

I would also argue against them planning it out in a 100% premeditated way, but that don’t change the fact that there were a bunch of plain clothes feds there. They definitely could have been fanning the flames for people to begin becoming violent or encouraging people to enter the capital.

the fbi was under trump's control for almost 4 years at that point. i'm just not sure where you're going with this. are you suggesting that this was an attempt by a deep state cabal that survived 4 years under trump, within the fbi, and then conspired with the proud boys and the oath keepers to storm the capitol?

january 6th was just one part of trump's coup attempt.

• giuliani orchestrated states sending fake slates of electors to congress,
• trump orchestrated a scheme with jeff clark to send a letter from doj to swing states saying their elections were tainted
• trump threatened georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger with criminal prosecution by doj if he didn't find him 11,000 votes,
• trump threatened mike pence to violate his oath of office in order to help trump stay in power,
• trump spread lies for months that he knew were false,
• trump sent the armed crowd to go to the capitol, then watched on tv for 3 hours while they brutalized cops.

decibal cooper you're not suggesting the fbi set all that up somehow, because that would be trollishly insane. so what are you suggesting? that fbi undercovers fomented the riot to make trump look bad, and it's a total coincidence that it fit perfectly with the rest of trump's plot? or what?

  

3 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

I am still curious about what really happened that day and how the feds were or were not involved

we know a lot about what happened that day. trump and friends prevented the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in american history. 

you want to know about what the feds were doing? feds keeping tabs on that kind of thing is exactly what they're supposed to do.

the fbi is a black box, we don't get to know "how they were involved." suggesting boogeymen in a black box is a standard trick.

Edited 6 hours ago by may be rude

[decibal cooper]

1 hour ago, may be rude said:

so what are you suggesting? that fbi undercovers fomented the riot to make trump look bad, and it's a total coincidence that it fit perfectly with the rest of trump's plot? or what?

Yes this exactly what I am suggesting. I posted that vid of Thomas Massie interviewing that dude involved in the official investigation who cannot state how many undercovers there were, also I mentioned the fbi history of cointelpro, entrapping ppl to commit terrorist plots, and the surveillance videos of capital building security guards just letting trump supporters into the building. All of this plus the unsolved case of the pipe bomb. I definitely think it at least possible that there were either feds or confidential informants there that day pushing things in a certain direction. Saying the feds were under his control for four years. I doubt any executive has complete control over these huge organizations that are shrouded in secrecy. If Trump had control over fbi or cia then why would he not use them to stage a real insurrection, and not some fuck shit where a few of his own supporters end up getting killed? Again I am open to learning that all the feds were just there doing their job and that there was no foul play but it still seems to me like there are unanswered questions about that day which no one really cares about and it would be helpful to know as Massie says to prevent this type of thing from happening again.

[ignatius]

lol

[Rubin Farr]

42 minutes ago, ignatius said:

lol

 

[zero]

the only person to blame for jan. 6 and who is 100% accountable, is the main instigator - trump. he caused it due to not accepting the reality that he lost the 2020 election. he could have accepted it and there would've been no jan. 6th. but he kept repeating that stop the steal shit over and over until his supporters believed it. I mean c'mon...trump is the one at fault here! AND he is allowed to run again for president! it's as if jan. 6 never happened. it had no long term effect at moving the needle away from him. he is the one who motivated his supporters to angrily storm the US capitol to wreak havoc, and is allowed to run again for office. this would have been an unbelievable statement to make 20-30 years ago, but here we are.

people voting for him always make excuses for jan. 6, and why it went down the way it did. like conspiracy theory crap about agent provocateurs or what not. that's a distraction tactic, and is not addressing the main issue which is it was his fault to begin with. to this day he's accepted zero accountability for it whatsoever. this to me showcases a massive flaw in the electoral, judicial, and governance system we have. a person who does this should not be allowed to run for office again. but this huge open wound flaw is currently impossible to fix, since half of congress are made up of yes men stooges supporting the guy who caused jan. 6th in the first place. and then the supreme court he helped put in place says shit like he's immune from accountability over it. what a fucking joke.

all the rest of us can really do is to not vote for a guy like this, and not support the elected officials in govt. who keep propping him up. try and move the collective consciousness in this country away from this trump show insanity. at this point in time it leaves me with no option than to vote for the dems, who are far from perfect, but are not the party worshipping someone who gives zero fucks about anything but himself.

[ignatius]

47 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

 

"Coachella" but really it was a few miles away and not on the coachella venue's fields. 

also,

[Nebraska]

12 hours ago, Rubin Farr said:

Likely another grift

confirmed!

 

 

[may be rude]

1 hour ago, decibal cooper said:

3 hours ago, may be rude said:

so what are you suggesting? that fbi undercovers fomented the riot to make trump look bad, and it's a total coincidence that it fit perfectly with the rest of trump's plot? or what?

Yes this exactly what I am suggesting.

ok.

• we're talking about the fbi under trump and after almost 4 years of trump. fbi director appointed by trump (trump fired comey and nominated chris wray). 
• trump weeded out public servants and put loyalists in, including in DOJ and FBI. he actively attacked good public servants because they weren't loyal enough to him. 
• around a thousand people have been convicted of crimes related to jan 6th. 
• several members of the proud boys and the oath keepers have been convicted of the extremely serious crime of seditious conspiracy. that's conspiracy to overthrow the government. 

what you're suggesting is implausible. it doesn't make sense. 

1 hour ago, decibal cooper said:

I posted that vid of Thomas Massie interviewing that dude involved in the official investigation who cannot state how many undercovers there were

of course they wouldn't be able to say that. that is to be expected. there's no reason to think that means anything. 

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

also I mentioned the fbi history of cointelpro

that's a program that ended more than 50 years ago

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

the surveillance videos of capital building security guards just letting trump supporters into the building

the capitol police are not the fbi. the capitol police were not prepared to enforce an outer perimeter and retreated to fallback positions as the crowed easily worked to bypass the few metal gates placed on some paths. some capitol police definitely were of the brainwormed variety and sympathized with rioters. some capitol police have been prosecuted for crimes on jan 6 such as obstruction of justice for telling rioters to delete evidence.

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

All of this plus the unsolved case of the pipe bomb. I definitely think it at least possible that there were either feds or confidential informants there that day pushing things in a certain direction.

i don't see why you think it would be fbi. the pipe bomber is interesting though, they seemed to be good at what they were doing. either some kind of professional or just a gifted american nutter.

you say feds... technically that includes trump and his executive branch crew including various conspirators in his set of conspiracies. so yes feds were involved in jan 6 if you mean trump and his posse.

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

Saying the feds were under his control for four years. I doubt any executive has complete control over these huge organizations that are shrouded in secrecy. If Trump had control over fbi or cia then why would he not use them to stage a real insurrection, and not some fuck shit where a few of his own supporters end up getting killed?

trump shut down investigations into himself and his people. he pushed for fbi to investigate political enemies of his. there are a lot of employees but to imagine an extensive conspiracy acting against their boss is far-fetched.

you ask why he wouldn't use fbi and cia to stage a real insurrection, he did abuse power and we don't know the full extent of that. we don't know that he didn't misuse FBI or CIA as part of his efforts to do a coup. there are limits to what people can get away with and to what people will go along with. 

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

Again I am open to learning that all the feds were just there doing their job and that there was no foul play 

ok man stay fixated on that. trump is what you should be worried about. 

[ignatius]

Edited 1 hour ago by ignatius

[Walter Ostanek]

I am half expecting the US to attain Somali levels of violent dysfunction if not have an actual civil war in the next few years. Which is a bummer because I live like an hours' drive from the US. I find it nuts how few people in Canada are taking that possibility seriously or thinking about what it would mean for us. Though honestly a serious chunk of this country is itching to throw in its lot with one or other yanqui faction, if they don't already think that we're part of the US