Now Reading

[sheatheman]

civilwarland in bad decline is his best. read that. i thought tenth of december was weak. disappointing. i feel like he's getting pretty formulaic. his philosophy as a writer seems to be "be nice to people" which isn't very deep, is it? but he has mastered a certain tone and seems to capture the absurdity of corporate structures and the dehumanizing aspects of capitalism very well in easily digestible stories.

 

Well, the corporate structure faux utopia thing is a launchpad into other stuff. I agree that Tenth of December uses a formula, and I was able to predict several of the outcomes, but it is HIS formula (!) See that? He is the father of parenthetical punctuation, and lots of people who run literary journals say that everyone is trying to sound like Saunders and have been for the past few years. It's more than tone, he has really tapped into the fragmentation of the american psyche.

 

 

I don't buy that Tenth of December is weak. Escape from Spiderhead is truly a feat, where the character takes the VerbuLace and then Saunders amps up his writing and actually finds a way for his character to express things in profound ways. Setting himself up for that and delivering on it is pretty unique.

 

Victory Lap is also amazing in that it made me feel happy that the pedophile/killer was shown some mercy. I shed a tear at the end of that one after laughing a lot, especially at things I shouldn't have been laughing at. That story twists you up.

 

 

The main reason I read ToD was for a craft talk I was attending. I had previously read Pastoralia after reading about it in the forward of a a Robert Sheckley collection, Store of the Worlds.

 

If you've not read Pastoralia, you will see that his strategy is deeper than "be nice to people." But loving your characters is not a philosophy lacking depth. It's the only way you can produce A: real characters and B: real outcomes.

 

Anyway, glad to find another Saunder's fan. I have not read CivilwarLand, but I'm sure I will. Right now I'm reading The Brief and Frightening Reign of Phil, and In Persuasion Nation, or I will in the next few months. I've got at least 20 books to get through this semester, and I have to write 5 new stories and make revisions of the first 4 of those stories.

 

Have you ever read Geek Love by Katherine Dunn?

[Guest zaphod]

I've read all of his work, known about him for quite some time. His strongest works are Pastoralia and CIvilwarland. His stuff after Pastoralia has been less than inspired, although there are some bright spots (commcomm). I'm actually a little tired of his voice, which sounds the same in nearly every story. I think he needs to step outside his box and challenge himself. That's what I mean by formula. His philosophy is not particularly deep, although it's welcome. It's basically "try to be empathetic to all people", which i can get behind. I don't think his stories are as involved as you're making them out to be, but he's cut out a path in mainstream literary fiction (lol) that is unique and his own. I'm just kind of tired of his voice and wish he would (could?) write something a little deeper. This might require him to write a novel, which he's said repeatedly he doesn't want to do. I can respect that, but after ToD I'm not rushing out to read his next work.

 

I haven't read geek love.

Edited February 3, 2014 by zaphod

[auxien]

Just started Amir Aczel's Mystery of the Aleph. Only a few chapters in, but it seems it's following Cantor's life struggling with the continuum problem and somehow connecting that with the Kabbalah. Curious to see how many threads tie together in there...I've read a bit of the author's previous stuff and, though his writing is always interesting, the solidity of the connections he makes are sometimes too loose to really be of much strength.

[sheatheman]

I've read all of his work, known about him for quite some time. His strongest works are Pastoralia and CIvilwarland. His stuff after Pastoralia has been less than inspired, although there are some bright spots (commcomm). I'm actually a little tired of his voice, which sounds the same in nearly every story. I think he needs to step outside his box and challenge himself. That's what I mean by formula. His philosophy is not particularly deep, although it's welcome. It's basically "try to be empathetic to all people", which i can get behind. I don't think his stories are as involved as you're making them out to be, but he's cut out a path in mainstream literary fiction (lol) that is unique and his own. I'm just kind of tired of his voice and wish he would (could?) write something a little deeper. This might require him to write a novel, which he's said repeatedly he doesn't want to do. I can respect that, but after ToD I'm not rushing out to read his next work.

 

I haven't read geek love.

 

From a craft standpoint, a story like Semplica Girl Diaries is astounding. The stories themselves are not that astounding necessarily. But I'm coming at it from a "what is he doing and what is it achieving" standpoint just as much as I am reading it blankly and absorbing it. I find I do more of the former even. Half the stories in ToD didn't connect with me on that deep, hard-to-express level (!) and that could be a criticism, it is, but ToD had real ingenuity in craft.

 

What about Barry Hannah and Rick Bass?

Edited February 3, 2014 by sheatheman

[Guest zaphod]

i think i've read some rick bass, "the watch" maybe? i dunno, it was a long time ago. i'm more into genre writing than anything "literary". saunders reminds me of barthelme mixed with david foster wallace, if that's possible.

[sheatheman]

I'm not allowed to read genre. Very verboten.

 

I've read very little in my life, to be sooth. I just absorb from everything. I have never read Infinite Jest.

 

The Watch is an amazing collection I'd say. The title story is pretty much perfect.

 

AndnBarry Hannah has some of the best, most condensed dialogue of all time. You'll get a sense of it from Airships.

[Atop]

 

Pretty nuts so far, hopefully the first story isn't the best, it would make an awesome short film.

[hello spiral]

^ Fucking NICE man!

 

I have that on a 'to get' list. Think it's pretty hard to get hold of.

 

First heard about it from the book below, which has a tribute story called 'the king', In: YELLOW.

 

[Guest zaphod]

 

Pretty nuts so far, hopefully the first story isn't the best, it would make an awesome short film.

 

pretty good. you read any arthur machen?

[sheatheman]

The King in Yellow is free on kindle prime.

[baph]

The King in Yellow is free on kindle prime.

 

I think the kindle version might be free for everyone. Which probably means awful formatting and frequent typos, but, hey, free.

[auxien]

 

 

Pretty nuts so far, hopefully the first story isn't the best, it would make an awesome short film.

 

pretty good. you read any arthur machen?

 

 

I've read a little Machen, love what I have read so far. Just looked this King in Yellow book up, looks very interesting.

[sheatheman]

 

The King in Yellow is free on kindle prime.

 

I think the kindle version might be free for everyone. Which probably means awful formatting and frequent typos, but, hey, free.

 

 

gosh, why do I even pay for prime?

[baph]

 

 

The King in Yellow is free on kindle prime.

I think the kindle version might be free for everyone. Which probably means awful formatting and frequent typos, but, hey, free.

gosh, why do I even pay for prime?

I've grabbed a few decent books with the prime kindle lending library. And by "few" I mean "exactly three in two years." I'm sure you've seen what kind of dire shit is on there. Yikes.

 

I thought I'd borrowed more, but looking back most of it was actually just $0 public domain stuff.

 

I love prime for the shipping perks and free instant video selection, and the kindle itself is great. I take a free to borrow gem as a very infrequent surprise.

Edited February 7, 2014 by baph

[Atop]

Yeah I have read 'The Great God Pan' zaphod and really enjoyed that, I have 'the White People', which you recommended and still need to read it.

[Guest zaphod]

the hill of dreams is really good, check that out if you get a chance.

 

e.h. visiak was also very interesting. if you can locate a copy of "medusa", it's worth reading. very weird cosmic horror from a friend of david lindsay.

[sheatheman]

 

An incredibly evocative essay. It gets into some dark realms of realization. Could be a cure for the current culture crisis.

[Atop]

the hill of dreams is really good, check that out if you get a chance.

 

e.h. visiak was also very interesting. if you can locate a copy of "medusa", it's worth reading. very weird cosmic horror from a friend of david lindsay.

 

Been looking for that, not sure I can find it at a reasonable price unless it gets reprinted. Hope it does. Did you ever read "The Devil's Tor" by Lindsay?

[Guest zaphod]

nah i've only read voyage to arcturus. is devil's tor any good? it looks a bit suspect, i read it's got a lot of eugenics and norse mythology/aryan supremacy stuff going on in it. it's also five hundred dollars on amazon lol.

[Atop]

damn! Yeah that is a lot for it. I love it, but I don't remember any Thule like shit. Just his worship of a mother goddess and a race that comes from her. I want to read it again, it was definitely an extreme fantasy immersion.

 

I got it for 40 bucks back in 2002.

 

I bought The Violet Apple for 100 bucks at the same time.

 

I am glad people are reading his work.

 

'The Haunted Woman' really effected me as well.

 

I am thinking this is the genre that you are focusing on.

 

Do you own all of the Bison Books reprints?

 

What they were putting out for public consumption is exactly what I want to be reading, and one day adapting into films, or tv series.

[Guest zaphod]

i need to read the haunted woman. "weird fiction" or whatever you want to call it is something of a lifelong interest for me along with cyberpunk.

i'm not sure what imprint my voyage to arcturus is. i got a lot of these things as used hardcovers so they're pretty battered. i do have medusa in the reprint that got put out a couple years ago, which seems to fetch a very high price on amazon.

i'm assuming you've read william hope hodgson, m.r. james, "lukundoo" by e.l. white. "strange evil", written by jane gaskell (at age 14!) is fun stuff too...

would love to see films of a lot of these books and after seeing a field in england i don't think they're totally unfilmable.

[lumpenprol]

holy crap, you guys are actually talking about David Lindsay. Many many years ago on watmm I remember only Atop and I jerking over "Voyage to Arcturus". Haven't read it in years though, but it was one of my favorites as a young teen. I have an ancient printing of it as well, with some terrible cover art. Amazing book.

 

Atop and I had a pm chat about favorite sci fi books years ago, he gave me a whole list of his favorites and there were a few on it I hadn't read. Wish I still had that list. Can't really add anything to the discussion.

[Atop]

just watched a field in england for the second time and I feel like it could be a catalyst for period sci-fi/fantasy/old school horror adaptations.

 

I need to read all of those zaphod. I have an M R James anthology that I need to get to.

 

I am going to reread Arcturus again soon Lumpster, we should have another chat about it.

 

Books on that lost list would be:

 

Tales of Wonder by Lord Dunsany,

A Crock of Gold by James Stephens,

The Wonder by J D Beresford,

The Haunted Woman by Lindsay,

The Devil's Tor by Lindsay,

The Moon Pool by A Merritt,

The Stars my Destination by Bester,

More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon,

The Purple Cloud by M P Shiel,

Lilith by MacDonald,

The Great God Pan by Machen,

When Worlds Collide by Philip Wylie and Edwin Balmer,

Dr Adder by K W Jeter,

Jurgen by James Branch Cabell

 

How many of those have you read zaphod? I am betting most of them.

 

Those would be my top choices in picking what should be made into faithful adaptations, along with Lovecraft and Poe and H G Wells.

 

I think a lot of people would really love for that to happen, a lot that don't know they are wanting it. When they see it, it would be mind blowing.

 

If you guys can help get this started, we should.

 

I will be doing work on my end.

[Guest zaphod]

haven't read either of the lindsay books, dr adder, never heard of jurgen. got some reading to do apparently. looking on my shelf, here's some other stuff:

 

a. merritt - the metal monster

richard marsh

francis stevens

henry kuttner

manly wade wellman - silver john books

bertram mitsford

 

looks like my copy of voyage to arcturus is paperback. pretty lol cover:

 

[lumpenprol]

just watched a field in england for the second time and I feel like it could be a catalyst for period sci-fi/fantasy/old school horror adaptations.

 

I need to read all of those zaphod. I have an M R James anthology that I need to get to.

 

I am going to reread Arcturus again soon Lumpster, we should have another chat about it.

 

thanks for the list again! I still haven't seen "a field in England" yet, hope to at some point.

 

re: Arcturus, one thing that always struck me was the casual sexism - he's always screwing some alien then killing her - but somehow in the context of a psychedelic vision quest that involves stripping away the veil of lies of the world, it didn't bother me too much. Which makes me wonder, there have been some decent female sci fi writers, but can you think of any female whacked-out-on-opiates-visionaries? Back in the day you had things like the Oracle at Delphi, but I can't think of any more recent examples. That kind of role seems more the province of men, in the current era.

 

this was mine:

 

Edited February 8, 2014 by lumpenprol