kaini Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 it might be cultural bias chen but that vid still made me feel sick :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idrn Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The restaurant is just flaunting how fresh their cuisine is, that's all. call me old fashioned, but i'd prefer to see a tank of live fish over a dodgy youtube video with sadistic undertones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong. Yeah I just realised I admitted the only the other day I would be willing to try the live squid thing. You're absolute right. This is fucking wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You think it's wrong. I don't have a problem with it. Who's right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Exactly. It is purely an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plisb Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Seriously whatever about cultrual influence in modern day society when it comes to animal rights. The video I posted some year ago of a man somewhere in asia skinning a dog (among other animals), alive, for the sake of the fur, can also be explained in this same way. His habitus and the need of money makes it okay for him to skin the animals in that way. Same thing with e.g. boys growing up with their father hitting cattle on a daily basis. You gotta see it from their perspective and their base of references - yes of course, but does it make the action itself less fucked up? There's a huge difference between a human living in the forest killing a monkey because of survival, and a hype around eating sea creatures partly fried just because it's "awesome". I'm not talking about not killing animals, I'm talking about empathy and suffering. Why the fuck would you actively accept to hurt another being in this way? You know the fish is suffering and you could do something about it very easily, so why not do it (chenGOD)?... gah, just so pissed of. The whole thing just shows to which extent you respect life - unaware or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I think the point chen makes is that his cultural background has brought him up differently. I guess when you are brought up a certain way you don't really know any different, nor are you trained to feel any different or empathatic towards such matters when it's been the normal for him. This may not be his point. But this is certainly where I can see the other side of the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plisb Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Habitus Apart from that. A common essential question: What makes us humans? Common answer: To be able to understand the way another being feels - empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eichel Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing. ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line? sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!" 99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenton Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Fuck sharks. I'm in China, where is this restaurant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adjective Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 fuck that dish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eichel Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 hmm, didnt knew chenGOD was asian, thought he just moved there from the "western world". anyway, its probably the best to ask the fish what he thinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing. ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line? sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!" 99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply. did chen saying that he didn't have a problem with eating a live fish make him cosmopolitan and super-wise? I wasn't aware that had happened at all. He was merely expressing his opinion. He then added, to maybe give more credence to his opinion, or substantiate it with an experience, that he himself has eating an octopus that was living/still moving. Clearly he has seen it all. Also that fish was most certainly not thrown back into the sea after eating. I feel that most of the negative reactions in the thread are due to the people in the video. They're laughing, having a good time, treating this fish as a novelty. This is whats upsetting most of you I feel. Treating a dying animal like a plaything. A video of a prepared fish maybe once moving it's gills with no sound would surely not have elicited this much of a response. What's worse from the point of view of an animal: A chicken, kept for years in terrible conditions, unable to move, fed food it's not designed to eat, injected with steroids and antibiotics and then killed before it gets any sicker, or a fish that was fished out of the ocean, fried, then eaten and laughed at for 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You're absolutely right dr lopez. It was the people lauging and treating the suffering animal like a toy that pissed me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eichel Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing. ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line? sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!" 99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply. did chen saying that he didn't have a problem with eating a live fish make him cosmopolitan and super-wise? I wasn't aware that had happened at all. He was merely expressing his opinion. He then added, to maybe give more credence to his opinion, or substantiate it with an experience, that he himself has eating an octopus that was living/still moving. Clearly he has seen it all. Also that fish was most certainly not thrown back into the sea after eating. I feel that most of the negative reactions in the thread are due to the people in the video. They're laughing, having a good time, treating this fish as a novelty. This is whats upsetting most of you I feel. Treating a dying animal like a plaything. A video of a prepared fish maybe once moving it's gills with no sound would surely not have elicited this much of a response. What's worse from the point of view of an animal: A chicken, kept for years in terrible conditions, unable to move, fed food it's not designed to eat, injected with steroids and antibiotics and then killed before it gets any sicker, or a fish that was fished out of the ocean, fried, then eaten and laughed at for 10 minutes. as i said in my 2nd post, i didnt knew he had an asian background. gives everything a different perspective. but the subtext i read in his post(s) was that he could confirm the entertainment-factor of eating still-living animals. and it came across as he was showing off/trying to shock with it. that was irritating me. and to your chicken-fish-comparison: both are examples for torture, none better than the other. but after all, i didnt saw a video of concentration-camps-chickens being laughed at on youtube and, on top, somebody trying to defend that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 monsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 where is the frying part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think the point chen makes is that his cultural background has brought him up differently. I guess when you are brought up a certain way you don't really know any different, nor are you trained to feel any different or empathatic towards such matters when it's been the normal for him. This may not be his point. But this is certainly where I can see the other side of the coin. it's all about learning to do things in a better way though. thats what we as cultures are supposed to do for each other is refine our flaws and weaknesses. make new solutions. ....or we can just do what we want. thats what most of the world does and that leads us to where we are right now on this planet. Seriously whatever about cultrual influence in modern day society when it comes to animal rights. The video I posted some year ago of a man somewhere in asia skinning a dog (among other animals), alive, for the sake of the fur, can also be explained in this same way. His habitus and the need of money makes it okay for him to skin the animals in that way. Same thing with e.g. boys growing up with their father hitting cattle on a daily basis. You gotta see it from their perspective and their base of references - yes of course, but does it make the action itself less fucked up? There's a huge difference between a human living in the forest killing a monkey because of survival, and a hype around eating sea creatures partly fried just because it's "awesome". I'm not talking about not killing animals, I'm talking about empathy and suffering. Why the fuck would you actively accept to hurt another being in this way? You know the fish is suffering and you could do something about it very easily, so why not do it (chenGOD)?... gah, just so pissed of. The whole thing just shows to which extent you respect life - unaware or not. +1 Habitus Apart from that. A common essential question: What makes us humans? Common answer: To be able to understand the way another being feels - empathy. so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rabid Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile. What a spectacular way to miss both sides of the argument lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rabid Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 What, stating what I think? Bitching about this kind of stuff is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abusivegeorge Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 What, stating what I think? Bitching about this kind of stuff is stupid. We are stating what we think also. Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i think we are here to move on from any old set cultural structure that condones anything that is not The Truth. we have so many opportunities in this new world of 2009, we can make so many more choices. we are here to learn together how to give each other new opportunities and more options so we can make choices outside necessity, social cultural pressures and fear. choices outside are own wantings and lusts.... thinking about the other before the self. It is not just about condemning and judgment, but instead it is about admonishment and new solutions and healing. ad·mon·ish (ād-mŏn'ĭsh) tr.v. ad·mon·ished, ad·mon·ish·ing, ad·mon·ish·es 1 To reprove gently but earnestly. 2 To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution. 3 To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rabid Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 ad·mon·ish (ād-mŏn'ĭsh) tr.v. ad·mon·ished, ad·mon·ish·ing, ad·mon·ish·es 1 To reprove gently but earnestly. 2 To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution. 3 To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility. Admonish, eh? Sounds like something a self-righteous prick would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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