wahrk Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 We're starting Longtrack 2. I'll be done with the first section in a day or two. website thread on the Renoise forum Also, Renoise rules. Profess your love for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 can someone explain to me the specific reasons why breakcore artists like renoise the best? or just why i would want to use renoise instead of ableton or logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted May 15, 2010 Author Share Posted May 15, 2010 It's fast and precise and I don't have to spend the whole time clicking shit with my mouse. Fuck a mouse. Keyboard ftw. I love the hell out of Ableton, but I lose a lot of interest in programming with it because the piano roll on it blows. The only quality PR is in FL Studio, and there's a lot about the way FL does things that I just can't stand. Renoise is fast, intuitive, and powerful, and it has a wicked development team that listens to the input of its users. Really the only things that keep me from uninstalling Ableton are variable scope and recording audio tracks. It sucks to have a limited grid/scale of view in Renoise. They're adding zooming soon, though, hopefully. It'll be awesome if they allow the ability to zoom in to the tick level (ticks divide lines, lines divide beats, beats divide patterns, patterns divide the song). It also sucks to only kinda be able to record audio. There's talk of adding that as well though. Edit: Does anyone else find Ableton's clip view uninspiring as far as building and structuring songs goes? I feel like I should feel free when using it, but I just feel boxed into loops. Loops loops loops. I generally dislike loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest edge Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I use both. But I don't rewire just because I can't be arsed fiddling about. Renoise is tits because you can chop and re-arrange a break into 5 other breaks in about 2 minutes and then chuck 'em into Ableton to jam them onto the ends of other breaks for a bit of variation. Ableton is taint-ticklingly good because I can arrange a track in about half an hour by shuffling wee coloured boxes around. The only thing I can't be bothered with (or bothered learning) is how to arrange an entire track in Renoise.. I just can't seem to get my head around pattern by pattern songwriting, I have to see it as a whole in Ableton and be able(ton) to simply throw stuff around with my computer arrow pointing device. It's probably just an illusion of freedom really but what an illusion. closer to copperfield than blaine (way ahead of criss angel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted May 15, 2010 Author Share Posted May 15, 2010 I just can't seem to get my head around pattern by pattern songwriting, I have to see it as a whole in Ableton and be able(ton) to simply throw stuff around with my computer arrow pointing device. Yeah, see I just think in patterns. Loops have always bothered me, as I usually like to have little fills/transitions/non-repeating sections that are different each time, which would mean that I'd have to either a) make two different clips, or b) make fill clips that need to be launched at whatever point during the main clips for the part, which seems super roundabout. I can just program them in in 2 seconds in Renoise. Easy. I feel like Ableton would be awesome for that kind of stuff still though, but it just doesn't click with me anymore. Also I spend forever tweaking sounds unproductively in Ableton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I use both ableton and renoise, but I only use the arrangement view in ableton. The clip view disgusts me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 i've used tracker based sequencers since scream tracker 3, can't stand piano roll, and renoise is awesome in every way (though a "zoom" function would be great), and much like wahrk, i can't stand just looping stuff over and over, i always fiddle about with small details in every pattern that noone notices but me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest edge Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 Yeah seriously, fuck clip view. I can definitely see where it could be useful (the "Live" part of Ableton Live), but for building tracks it's arrangement view all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 Glad that so many other people feel this way. Whew. Maybe I'll start trying to use Ableton Rewired to Renoise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sprigg Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 I despise Ableton's clip view as well, it just plain confuses me. As to renoise, this has inspired me to fiddle with it again, now that I at least somewhat understand the songwriting process... It was definitely interesting, even if it didn't make a lick of sense to me seven or eight months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rude_NHS Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 how can you people not like the clip view in ableton? its the most innovative way of working ever. people think to linearly, and you know what happens? its make your music predictable. its called live because it does stuff live. why bother arranging a track when you can get the clip view to arrange it for you in a way you'd never have thought of. step out of the 90s people. geeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 really? I mean... come on... really? edit: shuffling loops>partiture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rude_NHS Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 shuffling loops>partiture? what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Songs happen linearly. Yeah, the clip view is awesome for live performance with all the permutations you can create, but a finished track includes only one permutation, so it's kind of unnecessary for production not aimed at live use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaksta303 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 how can you people not like the clip view in ableton? its the most innovative way of working ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Pssst. If anyone's interested, the project this thread was initially about is still happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tht tne Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 i've never even really got my feet wet with ableton live and don't intend to... i love renoise and am not advanced enough to know what i'm missing out on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 i've never even really got my feet wet with ableton live and don't intend to... i love renoise and am not advanced enough to know what i'm missing out on real audio tracks, somewhat more precise automation, MIDI effects, racks, clip view (yeah okay whatevs) not a lot of serious stuff, just stuff that's often handy. It's nothing you can't get around in Renoise most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 i always use clip view to just create mutations of clips for a track, and then arrange them linearly in arrange view. Once you copy a clip over there it's an independent entity and you can tweak and add ghost notes to your IDM heart's content. :p You can also easily build a track in clip view using follow actions. Can renoise send out midi to hardware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid1 Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I use both in there entirety. I love session view but also start many tracks in arrange. Its not fair to compare Ableton and Renoise. Ableton isn't even a tracker, and Renoise isn't really designed for live use. *queue the idiot who is gonna correct me and tell me how the matrix in Renoise is all anyone will ever need ever to do live shows with bands and whatever else forever into eternity* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 I use both in there entirety. I love session view but also start many tracks in arrange. Its not fair to compare Ableton and Renoise. Ableton isn't even a tracker, and Renoise isn't really designed for live use. *queue the idiot who is gonna correct me and tell me how the matrix in Renoise is all anyone will ever need ever to do live shows with bands and whatever else forever into eternity* They're different but they are both designed for making music. I'd say that they're comparable as long as you choose criteria. For me, that's transparency when producing. The less I think about and have to deal with the program and/or computer, then the more focus I can put towards the music. Likewise, the faster I can put my ideas into the program, the more options I can try and more ideas I can retain before I get fatigued. That's why I like Renoise. For Live stuff, I think Live is superior hands down, but I don't even play live at this point, and for my workflow, realtime live composition is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 im still baffled by how someone could make a really good finished track in Abelton compared to a program like Logic or Cubase, it feels way underdeveloped compared to those two. Fruity i can understand i've seen people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahrk Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 im still baffled by how someone could make a really good finished track in Abelton compared to a program like Logic or Cubase, it feels way underdeveloped compared to those two. Fruity i can understand i've seen people do it. As long as it hosts VSTs and has a basic mixer, you can make do with just about any host for mixing and whatnot. My problem is the actual composition. The piano roll in Ableton is sub-par for programming an adequate level of minutia quickly and accurately. I don't know how I feel about Fl Studio's mixer. Cubase seems to have a large learning curve and is soooo extensive. I reeeeaaaally want to try Logic. For all of these though, they're a notch down in my book due to the multiple windows. Not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 The piano roll in Ableton is sub-par for programming an adequate level of minutia quickly and accurately. i agree i also have similar issues with it's audio editing timeline features, they work and you have the bread and butter but it has like 50% of the features that logic and cubase does for editing/splicing audio i really really badly ant to wrap my head around how to use a vertical keyboard based tracker, it's so confusing to me. Are there good 'getting started' tutorials for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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