Let's talk about song arrangement

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

It's easy to make a nice loop with some drums, percussion, a bass line and maybe a few chords. It's a different matter to expand it into a full song that actually goes somewhere and hopefully tells some kind of story.

 

I find arrangement to be the most difficult part of creating a track. Anyone have any methods on how to break free from the loop and keep things interesting over a 4 to 8 minute track?

[acid1]

Take a song you like the arrangement of.

Load it into your DAW

Set up channels of empty audio/midi clips to breakdown the structure of the song.

Label the clips things like "slow hi hats" or "slow lead".

Then remove the song, and start filling the song in with actualy content.

 

You will typically find after you get past a minute or so your song will take its own shape and you will begin doing your own thing.

[acidphakist]

This isn't as much about arrangement as it is about variation, but it will help keep your loops sounding not like loops.

 

Edit the hell out of your MIDI. If you are using four-bar drums, add a new fill in bar four of every other. If you have a chord progression, stack another note on top after every repetition. Take your bassline and add/remove notes so that the same line never repeats.

 

Edit the hell out of your waves. Reverse some drum hits, time stretch bits, throw on EFX. Repeat bass notes, stack them and glitch...

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Good posts - keep em coming.

[Chris Moss Acid]

was gonna type something then i relized ive done it before in a magazine

 

[kcinsu]

The way I approach pretty much all of my compositions, is that every event is a point. To connect two points, you have a variety of options.... You could connect them

with a straight line, a curved line, a zig zag line, what have you. This can be as low level as drum hits, or as high level as song form (or album track lists). If you have an A you are happy with, make a B. Once you are happy with it, connect point A to point B in any way you like. Youll probably do thus multiple times to see how much each one works. Then you can even cut your line up into parts, and paste the different lines together to make the final connection.

[ryancolecreate]

this is also really hard for me. It really requires a much more cerebral approach than does jamming on some loops, or just making bass or melody lines. Sometimes I look for inspiration in completely different genres, like Zydeco or old folk or music from non-western cultures (actually some really interesting music in these genres).

 

Also think about other sources, such as swarm theory (some great books online about this), or other scientific theory or ancient epic stories.

[goDel]

Keep away from the bars. Melody like a Frank Sinatra. I always hate those melodies which exactly match the bars.

[o00o]

If you think something is complex and has variations stop sit back and then make it 10 times more complex and with ten times more variations. great songs are much much more complex than they sound like

[Guest Wall Bird]

Reharmonization and modulation; both excellent techniques for milking the most variation out of repetitive rhythmic sequences.

 

Odd numbered repetitions seem to be the most pleasing to me and feel more natural and somehow less formulaic than changing a pattern on every multiple of four. Try clustering repetitions of material into uneven amounts.

 

Augmentation and diminution. Try subtracting a beat here or there, adding another few notes to a melody, multiplying the speed of a phrase, or playing it slower. This alters the inflection or emphasis of a musical phrase which can suggest new avenues to go down for the next section.

 

Kcinsu's advice about the transition of two events is definitely a good way of looking at things. Do you decide to do a hard splice into a musical non-sequitur, such as the Fiery Furnaces? Or do you do a

style slow fade into another setting? You could do an ostinato where one element repeats itself and interest is generated by it's juxtaposition with an evolving musical element such as Tony William's drum performance in Nefertiti.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Armed with this thread, I shall now conquer my unfinished tracks.

 

stop posting on the internets, start up your sequencer, bye.

Would do this if I wasn't at work right now.

[foresense]

Armed with this thread, I shall now conquer my unfinished tracks.

 

stop posting on the internets, start up your sequencer, bye.

Would do this if I wasn't at work right now.

[Guest hahathhat]

It's easy to make a nice loop with some drums, percussion, a bass line and maybe a few chords. It's a different matter to expand it into a full song that actually goes somewhere and hopefully tells some kind of story.

 

I find arrangement to be the most difficult part of creating a track. Anyone have any methods on how to break free from the loop and keep things interesting over a 4 to 8 minute track?

http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/2009/08/if-michelangelo-were-a-beatsmith/

http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/2009/08/core-points-of-arrangement/

[soundwave]

this is pretty much the story of my music making career (or lack of it)

 

best thing I've found is to break each part down or have everything separately as much as you can so you can chop and change the muting of each part

 

the mpc is great for this as you can over dub each little loop and use the four 16 pads banks to mute in and out to see what sounds best then record another part to suit

 

you probably have most of a track already in a busy four bar loop its just a case of arranging the silence in there too which is the way I look at it then add some fills and variations to anticipate the listener to any changes

 

buildin' it up n' breakin' daan again

[Root5]

Just put your 8 bar loop through the circle of 5ths and make 20 minute tracks.

 

Call yourself DJ Circle of 5ths. I'd be a breakthrough in dance music.

[Guest esquimaw]

Personally I think you've got to take your ideas and expand on them. Try everything. When making a film you're supposed to film 3 times as much as you'll actually use - I think a similar approach is appropriate with music. Throw everything you've got at it till you've got too much, then edit down to what you really want to say. Establishing a narrative within an abstract form is an extremely difficult thing to do. Be brave enough to create your own aesthetic. Or follow a formula.

 

When I questioned Ed DMX on the subject a while ago, he said this:

 

"I haven't received much guidance beyond maybe someone saying "this bit goes on too long". In general as I have become more experienced, my taste moves towards shorter tracks with less repetition. I'd rather be surprised and interested for 2 minutes than tranced-out for 8.

I like the tracks to start quite gently, build up and peak about 3/4 of the way through, and then perhaps chill out for a moment before the end. if it's a repetitive grooe then I like to have a contrasting section to drop in once or twice in the track to break it up. apart from those ideas it's pretty instinctive.

other things that come to mind are the memory of playing tracks to friends as a kid/teenager and saying "listen to this bit coming up!" "wait for it...." I think it's important to have things that only happen once in the track, a best bit, or little funky thing that grabs your attention. I think if stuff repeats it should repeat slightly differently.

oh and I can't stand music where everything happens in 8 bar sections, you get 8 bars of kick drum, then the hihat comes for 8 bars, then bassline comes in etc. it's boring. why not make the hihat come in after 5 and a half bars, and bring the bass in with a little extra funky lick one bar early, bring in 4 things at once and drop something else out. listen to aphex, drexciya, even robert hood who's music is very minimal and repetitive brings things in at unexpected moments and has unique little one-off tweaks in his tracks. it's all about keeping it interesting within the parameters of a groove sorta thing."

 

It's a difficult question. I'm drunk. Fuck off.

[pylonbitch]

here is a chord. here is another chord. here is a third. now start a band.

 

[posh voice] i always modulate up a diminished seventh befor dropping into an unexpected 7 or 13 based time sig where the synth lead modulates through a cycle of diminished fourths before ending in a noise/drone solo building up to a minor progression, but with major thirds(lol), then i bury the tape for four years before i spray it with hairspray and play it back on my teac 1020 1/4 inch at double speed and add a kind of melanchilic detuned monosynth with a 0.5 hZ osc on it plus or minus a quarter tone blah blah shoot me now.[/posh voice]

 

ah the old rush vs the clash argument.

 

you'll know it when you do it.

[Root5]

here is a chord. here is another chord. here is a third. now start a band.

 

[posh voice] i always modulate up a diminished seventh befor dropping into an unexpected 7 or 13 based time sig where the synth lead modulates through a cycle of diminished fourths before ending in a noise/drone solo building up to a minor progression, but with major thirds(lol), then i bury the tape for four years before i spray it with hairspray and play it back on my teac 1020 1/4 inch at double speed and add a kind of melanchilic detuned monosynth with a 0.5 hZ osc on it plus or minus a quarter tone blah blah shoot me now.[/posh voice]

 

ah the old rush vs the clash argument.

 

you'll know it when you do it.

 

I kinda want to hear that song you described.

[ryancolecreate]

oh here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBkNuxcrK3I

[o00o]

here is a chord. here is another chord. here is a third. now start a band.

 

[posh voice] i always modulate up a diminished seventh befor dropping into an unexpected 7 or 13 based time sig where the synth lead modulates through a cycle of diminished fourths before ending in a noise/drone solo building up to a minor progression, but with major thirds(lol), then i bury the tape for four years before i spray it with hairspray and play it back on my teac 1020 1/4 inch at double speed and add a kind of melanchilic detuned monosynth with a 0.5 hZ osc on it plus or minus a quarter tone blah blah shoot me now.[/posh voice]

 

ah the old rush vs the clash argument.

 

you'll know it when you do it.

 

Keep describing your arrangement. Sounds very incited

[Guest mohamed]

it depends, one needs to figure out his own techniques and the music that it comes out when some thing is done. today i made a beat at a slow bmp, i fastened it, then i recorded a melody with an organ vst for three minutes c/a then i started editing midi notes down and tweaking knobs while looping the three minutes range, seems to be the faster way to make it groove - wise. to give it a print and keep it all together. not easy.

 

 

I think it's important to have things that only happen once in the track, a best bit, or little funky thing that grabs your attention. I think if stuff repeats it should repeat slightly differently.

 

 

that

[wahrk]

Some of my common song section labels to get your brain juices flowing:

 

-drop

-build

-fall

-spazz out

-uhhhn

-groove

-destruction

-fuck shit up

-out

 

 

lol

 

[Guest Hanratty]

Some of my common song section labels to get your brain juices flowing:

 

-drop

-build

-fall

-spazz out

-uhhhn

-groove

-destruction

-fuck shit up

-out

 

 

lol

 

 

i'm going to try this. uhhhn.

[Dan C]

4 to the floor all the way

[Guest Sprigg]

Some of my common song section labels to get your brain juices flowing:

 

-drop

-build

-fall

-spazz out

-uhhhn

-groove

-destruction

-fuck shit up

-out

 

 

So in other words, you use the way you shit in your music making? Brilliant.