Rick Perry is an asshole

[Guest rumbo]

LOL

 

[azatoth]

Dawkins calls out Perry on his views on evolution in the WaPo

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/attention-governor-perry-evolution-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html

 

Is a good read.

[SR4]

this might also make for a good read:

 

http://coreyrobin.com/2011/08/01/572/

 

or

 

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/01/debt_ceiling/index.html

[awepittance]

LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNlR6UHGvU

i

mean granted Rick Perry sounds like a total moron in this clip, but jesus christ if i t's not hard to hold back a Picard-face palm while listening to these dudes on 'left wing' raido , they are often times just as much partisan hacks as Rush Limbuagh or Sean Hannity, not quite as obvious but still blatantly ot trying very hard and just falling into the same trap

[SR4]

i always wondered if that was why Air America failed.

 

People running for the presidency are idiots, yes, we understand this....meanwhile thousands of people are dying due to our policies.

 

 

There is a disconnect here.

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Presidents need vacations. I never cared when Bush took them either.

 

Yea, I'd vote socialist, but again, we're in a two party system, there are laws that make it hard for 3rd parties to win, not to mention the media doesn't give a shit about them. That's why I vote democrat, even though I wouldn't consider myself one. Lesser of two evils, by a long shot. At least this time around.

 

Edit: Most Americans don't know shit. If a socialist candidate could even go up against democrats and republicans I doubt they'd win anyway. Americans associate Socialism with Communism and Authoritarianism for some reason, so it won't happen anytime soon.

 

 

How the hell is this administration the lesser of two evils?

 

-Expansion of wars and interventionist policy

-No repeal of the Bush tax cuts

-No repeal of the Patriot Act

-No REAL stimulus for the consumer

-We are gonna see cuts in SS and Medicare soon, I guarantee you

-Failed economic regulation policies (I guess you could argue this happened due to corruption and inefficiency of officials, but isn't that whole argument hypocracy?)

-Unemployment is so fucking bad now that the administration now admits that 8% unemployment is "structural"

-STILL second lowest corporate tax rate in the ENTIRE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD

-second lowest corporate tax rate in AMERICAN HISTORY

-No corporate tax loopholes fixed

-Ben Bernake is a fucking idiot, or at least pretends to be

 

http://www.bloomberg...-month-low.html

 

-The administration is priding themselves on the fact that they saved 2000 jobs in three months.

 

I know you guys said Paul's deregulation policies are batshit crazy, and you are right. But at least the motherfucker is up front about how he wants to screw it up. Obama is letting them do it anyway under the pretense of reaching across the aisle! I would say hes just as much of a puppet as Bush was at this point.

 

-Failed and greviously cut stimulus spending

-Fucked up healthcare proposal

-No investigations into the bloated derivatives bubble (which btw, is over 600 TRILLION dollars)

 

 

It is time to stop this embarrassingly ignorant posture of forgiving an utterly incompetent administration and adhering to the idiocy of partisan politics and shallow moralism despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary. People need to grow the fuck up and get real.

 

http://nationalsecur...lenge-or-is-it/

 

Paid 640 billion dollars in defense expenditures in 2009....you think its gotten cheaper?

 

This is the "lesser of two evils?" What kind of crackpot planet do I live on?

 

http://krugman.blogs...ation-nation-2/

 

 

 

My quick response is simple: Obama isn't going to shove backward, regressive, super social conservative issues down our throats while screwing us over.

 

You know what they did first when they won elections and State legislature majorities? They cut planned parenthood funding, attacked education spending and targeted evolution teaching and safe sex education, de-funded public radio, and brought up gay marriage as a "threat." In Texas they made allowing concealed handguns on college campus, forcing women to do sonograms before abortions, and mandatory voting IDs "EMERGENCY LEGISLATION" all while we had a fucking 27 BILLION DOLLAR deficit we had to address.

 

One of the worst aspects of the GOP hijacking of the Tea Party movement was their injection of social issue focus. The corrupt GOP institutional heads and posterchilds like Bachman, Dick Armey, Perry, Palin, Gringrich, O'Donnell all the neo-con talk radio folks, etc. hopped on. These are the same people who were doing everything they could to keep Ron Paul and his supporters quiet in 2008. These are the same voting bases that kept W in office by getting the religious right out in full swing to vote.

 

So yeah, I'm voting for Obama in 2012 before so I don't live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state AND have to worry even more about religious right-wing horseshit being made into law for the generation after us. I like 3rd party candidates but let's not forget the Electoral College and pure numbers of votes will force it down to the 2-party option no matter what.

 

hey, check it out!

 

http://www.airforcet...overhaul-072511

 

 

even the foot soldiers of the wealthy get nothing for risking their lives!

 

Good point, the military retirement system is very screwed up. I've seen red-blooded, conservative servicemen do 20 years at an admin job, even in reserves, and get full retirement while actual combat infantryman get medically discharged with far less pay and more limited social services at their disposal.

 

"Alien Affiliations of Current Governors"

 

Rick Perry Texas Republican Dark, dark Orion 2010

 

http://www.4truthsee...t_governors.php

 

That site is just flowing with LOLs! Love reading that nonsense for fun

 

Dawkins calls out Perry on his views on evolution in the WaPo

 

http://www.washingto...IFUYJ_blog.html

 

Is a good read.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com...perry-bachmann/

 

^This was too. It's about the only GOP candidate to flat out say that any doubt of global warming and evolution is flat out idiotic. Huntsman and Ron Paul (his son's a nutter though) are about the only remotely sane and sincere candidates in the race. I don't mind Romney personally, but he's too on board with status quo tax breaks IMO

[Guest nene multiple assgasms]

LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNlR6UHGvU

i

mean granted Rick Perry sounds like a total moron in this clip, but jesus christ if i t's not hard to hold back a Picard-face palm while listening to these dudes on 'left wing' raido , they are often times just as much partisan hacks as Rush Limbuagh or Sean Hannity, not quite as obvious but still blatantly ot trying very hard and just falling into the same trap

 

shouldn't you be comparing right wing politicians with left wing politicians and not with left wing talk radio hosts?

[J3FF3R00]

LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNlR6UHGvU

i

mean granted Rick Perry sounds like a total moron in this clip, but jesus christ if i t's not hard to hold back a Picard-face palm while listening to these dudes on 'left wing' raido , they are often times just as much partisan hacks as Rush Limbuagh or Sean Hannity, not quite as obvious but still blatantly ot trying very hard and just falling into the same trap

i always wondered if that was why Air America failed.

 

 

I have to say. I'm clearly a bleeding-heart, but I can't fucking stand Air America. It's true. It makes me feel like I'm listening to Rush Limbaugh. There doesn't seem to be any emphasis on "news" or "journalism". Instead, it is basically a talking-points training ground. It chills me to hear these blowhards spewing divisive rhetoric, even if 90% of the time I fully agree with their politics.

 

However.

I guess somebody in radio media needs to be fact-checking and calling out the Republicans on their blatant bullshit. I just wish it didn't feel so icky.

 

 

I'm an NPR kinda guy.

[Guest rumbo]

Before I posted that clip of Perry being a dickhead, I wondered if its association with Sam Seder would detract from the bullshittery that Perry is spouting here. My gut is confirmed.

[azatoth]

So yeah, I'm voting for Obama in 2012 before so I don't live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state AND have to worry even more about religious right-wing horseshit being made into law for the generation after us. I like 3rd party candidates but let's not forget the Electoral College and pure numbers of votes will force it down to the 2-party option no matter what.

 

 

But the thing is you already live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state and having religious wing nuts making laws. And Obama isn't going to change that, he will more than likely stay the course and make things worse. Obama might have pulled the best scam in history when he got himself elected as a progressive and took Chicago politics to the White House.

[joshuatxuk]

LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNlR6UHGvU

i

mean granted Rick Perry sounds like a total moron in this clip, but jesus christ if i t's not hard to hold back a Picard-face palm while listening to these dudes on 'left wing' raido , they are often times just as much partisan hacks as Rush Limbuagh or Sean Hannity, not quite as obvious but still blatantly ot trying very hard and just falling into the same trap

i always wondered if that was why Air America failed.

 

 

I have to say. I'm clearly a bleeding-heart, but I can't fucking stand Air America.

 

However.

I guess somebody in radio media needs to be fact-checking and calling out the Republicans on their blatant bullshit. I just wish it didn't feel so icky.

 

 

I'm an NPR kinda guy.

 

Ditto. I just hate snarky spin doctors in general. But Perry somehow sounds more idiotic than W here. I watched some college student pwn him at a Q&A during a GOP gubernatorial primary debate when she asked him about his opinion the Texas Futile Care Act (ie the closest thing to a real "death panel, ironically). He said "I just always choose life." She asked "what about this law" and he responded "um, that's my answer." She then pointed out that he supported the measure as Lt. Governor in 1999. He stared just ahead blankly until the next question.

 

So yeah, I'm voting for Obama in 2012 before so I don't live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state AND have to worry even more about religious right-wing horseshit being made into law for the generation after us. I like 3rd party candidates but let's not forget the Electoral College and pure numbers of votes will force it down to the 2-party option no matter what.

 

 

But the thing is you already live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state and having religious wing nuts making laws. And Obama isn't going to change that, he will more than likely stay the course and make things worse. Obama might have pulled the best scam in history when he got himself elected as a progressive and took Chicago politics to the White House.

 

Again I don't completely disagree with you there. I vote for Kerry in 04 and McCain in 08. Long story aside, I did become way less of a raging liberal in those 4 years, but I also voted for the candidates I respected more in both elections. Obama supporters in 2008 were delusional. They were duped. He's an appealing guy and that alone got votes. You've pointed out that Chicago is one of the most corrupt cities in the world, and few even acknowledged that from the left even now. I think Obama has become a lot more pragmatic and dropped the "hope" bullshit and become a realist.

 

And yes, I do live a shitty conservative state. But we, even though it was done in an awful manner, balanced our state budget. We still fall under a federal government, and I'd much prefer moderates there then right-wingers.

[murve33]

Wow, I missed a bunch of conversation. But joshuatxuk has said everything I wanted to say, except he used coherent grammar.

 

I'm very curious who you anti-obama people are going to vote for (if you are going to vote), and why you feel your vote, or even voting for president in general, matters.

[SR4]

Wow, I missed a bunch of conversation. But joshuatxuk has said everything I wanted to say, except he used coherent grammar.

 

I'm very curious who you anti-obama people are going to vote for (if you are going to vote), and why you feel your vote, or even voting for president in general, matters.

 

 

I am going to vote for a third-party or a write in for someone that actually has the ability to increase quality of life for the majority of people in America, not someone who will let us cling on to smaller and smaller portions of social safety nets in exchange for unemployment, upper tax cuts, and suspension of civil rights.

 

Isn't that the fucking point of an election?

 

Wow, I missed a bunch of conversation. But joshuatxuk has said everything I wanted to say, except he used coherent grammar.

 

I'm very curious who you anti-obama people are going to vote for (if you are going to vote), and why you feel your vote, or even voting for president in general, matters.

 

 

I am going to vote for a third-party or a write in for someone that actually has the ability to increase quality of life for the majority of people in America, not someone who will let us cling on to smaller and smaller portions of social safety nets in exchange for unemployment, upper tax cuts, and suspension of civil rights.

 

Isn't that the fucking point of an election?

 

 

If you all haven't realized it yet, Obama has been a pushover for the radical right-wing since day one. That is a fucking fact. Why are you voting for him as a lesser evil? You like the face of the puppet better than the face behind it? What I am hearing is that you would rather have a slow ride down to the bottom than a freefall. Explain to me how this is better?

 

I mean this seriously, if our situation is in shambles a decade from now, we really should blame ourselves, the voting public more than the rich. This is some shameful shit.

[awepittance]

So yeah, I'm voting for Obama in 2012 before so I don't live in a corrupt, debt-ridden police state AND have to worry even more about religious right-wing horseshit being made into law for the generation after us.

 

edit: never-mind, Azatoth said pretty much what i was going to. I just think its funny people forget that Obama is a christian, or at least they like to pretend that he's just pretending to be. Interesting what cognitive dissonance does to the human brain.

[awepittance]

I'm very curious who you anti-obama people are going to vote for (if you are going to vote), and why you feel your vote, or even voting for president in general, matters.

 

Well does it matter? IT seems that people who feel compelled to vote for Obama think it matters, even though they are more than willing to admit that the presidential office itself is a PR puppet job. I don't know who i'm going to vote for, but i sure won't vote for a man who has taken us further into George W Bush territory in every regard that matters to me (civil liberties encroachments, wars, prosecuting whistleblowers like bradley manning, patriot act extensions, wall street coddling, social programs eliminating <-- yes it was obama not the right wing who proposed cutting social security and medicare, but again Obama voters like to literally pretend these things don't exist)

 

I'm very curious how so many anti-Bush people are now Obama loyalists or at the very least Obama battered wife/Stockholm syndrome sufferers. Do they not realize how much their actions mimic the same brainless Bush supporters they made fun of ridiculed for over 8 years?

[murve33]

If you all haven't realized it yet, Obama has been a pushover for the radical right-wing since day one. That is a fucking fact. Why are you voting for him as a lesser evil? You like the face of the puppet better than the face behind it? What I am hearing is that you would rather have a slow ride down to the bottom than a freefall. Explain to me how this is better?

Because your third party candidate simply can't win. If a third party candidate (who I support) miraculously DOES start gaining notoriety before this election, perhaps I will I WOULD vote for them. But if they can't get funding, can't get one of the media to report on them, and can't become a household name, there is no chance that they will win. Even if they had those things, they still wouldn't be aloud to debate and may not even be on some state's ballots.

 

I was also wondering, in regards to my first question, if there was any specific person that you or Awepittance are interested in voting for.

 

Also, let's try to keep this moderately civil, I don't mean to talk down to you, Smettingham, I just want to hear you out. You're getting a little malicious with the "Isn't that the point of a fucking election". At this point I'm reading this thread to see your opinions. Awepittance is already too malicious for me to care.

[murve33]

I'm very curious who you anti-obama people are going to vote for (if you are going to vote), and why you feel your vote, or even voting for president in general, matters.

I don't know who i'm going to vote for, but i sure won't vote for a man who has taken us further into George W Bush territory in every regard that matters to me...

Alright

[awepittance]

If i'm too malicious for you to care than i guess i won't expect a response

 

edit: thats it? if you have any sort of counter argument about how Obama is not taking us further down the George Bush road on those issues please let me know.

[murve33]

Really, the way I look at this election is Obama vs. Batshit Crazy Republican. We have a two-party system in a country where the majority of people get their political information from the Mainstream Media or word of mouth (whose source is the mainstream media watered down into shit). These people are not going to vote 3rd Party. I will not be voting for a batshit crazy republican, because I don't want them to win.

 

So I guess, my vote for Obama (unless a good 3rd Party candidate does gain notoriety) is more 2 votes against the insane republicans. I do recognize that the Obama administration is still running horrible Bush policies. I don't know how much of that is his fault or congresses, but it's hard to argue for him when the Democrats had power in the beginning of his term. He should have gotten rid of them immediately.

 

I'll still hear you out Awe. Just be less malicious, it's frustrating to read.

[marf]

who other than democrats want to increase quality of life for the majority of people in America in any way other than just lowering taxes? Every other party touts less government as the only solution to anything. How much you care about corporate welfare is the only difference.

[joshuatxuk]

Really, the way I look at this election is Obama vs. Batshit Crazy Republican. We have a two-party system in a country where the majority of people get their political information from the Mainstream Media or word of mouth (whose source is the mainstream media watered down into shit). These people are not going to vote 3rd Party. I will not be voting for a batshit crazy republican, because I don't want them to win.

 

So I guess, my vote for Obama (unless a good 3rd Party candidate does gain notoriety) is more 2 votes against the insane republicans. I do recognize that the Obama administration is still running horrible Bush policies. I don't know how much of that is his fault or congresses, but it's hard to argue for him when the Democrats had power in the beginning of his term. He should have gotten rid of them immediately.

 

I'll still hear you out Awe. Just be less malicious, it's frustrating to read.

 

^this. I'm not at all angered or frustrated or disagreeing with fundamental critiques of Obama being made from the left here on watmm and I too am dismayed by the blind devotion/apologists to the guy from hardcore Democrats and wannabe progressives, particularly young kids and affluent liberals. But I'm standing firm in my statement that I'm voting for him for the reasons I've mentioned and including the points Murveman has made.

 

Also, I hear conservatives do the whole pot calling the kettle black by criticizing him for not doing what he promised in the elections. It's beyond frustrating. They can't even grasp how hypocritical they are, and they want to put even dumber, slicker politicians from the GOP in power.

 

If i'm too malicious for you to care than i guess i won't expect a response

 

edit: thats it? if you have any sort of counter argument about how Obama is not taking us further down the George Bush road on those issues please let me know.

 

I'm not really. I don't hop on the political threads much, but in the past I've been pretty skeptical of Obama and critical of some his supporters on WATMM. I'm something of a pragmatic moderate with libertarian ideals (on social issues mostly). A long time ago I actually compared his policies to that of Nixon, especially with the way he handled Iraq. I'm a realist and someone who doesn't support idealistic nation-building operations nor lofty pacifist goals. I'm a cynic whose ok with drones and spec op raids and flexible diplomatic maneuvering instead.

 

Obama inherited a mess, yes. He also inherited knowledge and perspectives no one outside of the executive branch and core military and government personal has any full access to. It changed him. And honestly, he seems to be doing his best to neither reject his ideals that got him in office nor embrace neo-con policy, because that would flat out kill his credibility here and overseas. So yeah, can't provide a counter-argument. I don't think he's expanding them (most GOP folks, save Ron Paul, would) but he's kept many things in place, and Dems don't want to talk about it.

[SR4]

who other than democrats want to increase quality of life for the majority of people in America in any way other than just lowering taxes? Every other party touts less government as the only solution to anything. How much you care about corporate welfare is the only difference.

 

 

Have they increased quality of life? Republicans say they want to create jobs. Have they created jobs?

 

Every other party touts less government? Let's see, Socialists, Green, Communist, Libertarian Socialists, certain Independents, New Union Party and on and on.

 

This is why im losing my patience. I am literally hearing people state that its better to lose what they have slowly as opposed to losing what they have immediately. A third option of attempting to fore go or reform the system to actually reflect what voters want is viewed as completely ridiculous and a waste of time.

 

Do you understand why to me this is incredibly troubling? No one attends conferences to make connections or attend independent grassroots organizations because unless the Democratic party backs it up, its a waste of time.

 

Why is voting for a third-party a waste of time? Because there aren't enough voters to vote third party. THATS EXACTLY WHY I AM BEING SO CONFRONTATIONAL. Because I want more people to vote third-;party. No one will ever vote third-party if they continue to abide by the myth that they have no power to change the makeup of the election. Why go outside to do something if my neighbor isn't doing it? How is this not anathema to the whole "Republicans are sheeple" mentality?

 

Lets not forget our history. At the end of the 19th Century, movements for massive redistribution of wealth and agrarian reform dominated the politics of the Dust Bowl and Midwest. Labor unions and industrial workers came out in full force. Eugene Debs' presidential run became so horrifying to the elite that essentially the entire modern US propaganda model was put into use to drown out and crush them, using the exact same tactics- Don't vote third-party, vote for the centrist two-party system to slowly advance your cause while retracting other liberties. His success for the nomination, Robert La Follette was one of the greatest senators in American history, enforcing the anti-monopoly laws Roosevelt helped put into place

 

Teddy Roosevelt, one of the most highly regarded presidents of all time, and the advocate of many social welfare programs broke off from the Republicans and formed his own progressive party, which in 1912 carried 27.4 percent of the vote. That's over a quarter of the population who were sick and tired of Republican corporate sponsorship. The effects of this were massive. Pundits and anti-Communists noted the growing power of the unions and agrarian sector in the voting booth..if the Socialist parties and Progressive had combined forces, you effectively had a third of the U.S. population up in arms over wealth disparity, weak economic policy, and an overly aggressive imperialist policy. Just because Wilson won did not mean the third-party candidates and the grassroots activism were a waste of time. In 1924, La Follette got almost 17% of the vote, and this considering every possible media outlet being absolutely saturated with anti-Progressive propaganda and accusations of La Follette's corruption by big business. This did not end until after the Depression, in which FDR's administration was so scared shitless of rebellion/waves of strikes on his hands that he passed the beginnings of New Deal legislation. You can't honestly tell me that third-parties don't work and are a waste of time.

 

What we are seeing now is the immense success of the propaganda system, so powerful in fact that now American citizens are willing to stay home and repeat the talking points either of the two parties spiel out ad nauseum. Voters investments in the candidates are immediately ignored once in office, knowing that even though every conceivable point they voted in a candidate on never came to fruition, they would continue to vote for the same party, because the other one was "that much worse."

 

Its not only about voting. Its about activism. Its about being so fucking angry about the position you and others are in, and how it will continue to get worse without some form of organized action. Even something as little as getting people in your town organized to petitioning a certain state law, etc. can make a tremendous difference....I mean, look how many people supported the Tea Party once they started banging the drum..and that was a campaign of deliberate misinformation.

 

 

Honestly, I used to think voting Democratic was better than letting Bush in office. But ultimately you need to realize that a lazy half-assed confidence in the two-party system is effectively allowing yourself to be shackled, albeit the shackles have more slack than with the other party. Get motivated. Look for groups in the area, hear them out and join them. Seek other methods of obtaining news and other information, start actually employing critical thinking in terms of unemployment numbers.

 

Make a checklist of things you wanted to see done, and then compare with the current administration to see if they have happened.

 

Stuff like this enrages me because if you guys honestly believed that you were worth a shit, you'd start getting pissed too. But this is what saddens me, you will probably read this looking for holes to wrench open to criticism, instead of legitimately sympathizing with me and yourself that what you are doing is the exact opposite of improving your situation in life. I expect most of this not to be read, shrugged off with an indolent tl;dr, or some brief two-sentence argument reaffirming your belief in the lesser of two evils. This is why its frustrating. This is why. Most of you guys are incredibly intelligent and well-informed people. So why are you doing this to yourselves?

[joshuatxuk]

What we are seeing now is the immense success of the propaganda system, so powerful in fact that now American citizens are willing to stay home and repeat the talking points either of the two parties spiel out ad nauseum.

 

^this

 

Look, I hear you out smettingham, I really do. I don't want to criticize you and like I've said, I agree with you on many things, I'm just defending my statements at this point.

 

I have to remind myself we are a still more than a year out from the election. Things could change, a appealing 3rd party candidate, independent or otherwise, could emerge. I'd love for this country to become more diverse politically, hell, I've chewed out many people for chastising Nader voters as "the people who cost us the election." Something needs to shake up the public, i mean a massive fucking scandal or some kind of catastrophic event. Right now, a lot the more informed, intelligent people (i.e. most of us on WATMM as examples) know that things are fucked up (albeit, the exent of which we think so varies, obviously), but in order to sleep at night and not get physically sick thinking about it, we accept reality and limit ourselves to the few ways to make an impact, even if its a mere vote for the lesser of two evils. Hell, I worry a lot about more broad issues like the next generations mental state (i.e. kids growing up with high expectations and overwhelming technology) and the general lack resources humanity is already fighting over.

 

Hopefully the Tea Party rhetoric fragments the GOP, it has signs of possibly imploding or splitting in two parties. It's a very likely possibility that we could have a redo of the 92' election or...maybe the opportunity for a sincere 3rd party candidate to win will arise. I dunno, save some kind of armed warfare on the lines of what has been going on in the middle east, there's no way I can see things dramatically changing right this second...too much of the public is just way too stupid.

[murve33]

^All of this. Fantastically worded. Completely agree. Alright, I think I'm spoken for, hopefully I can leave this thread.

[SR4]

our foreign policies have killed over one million civilians abroad since 2001. and we risk starving over 25 million American citizens in the next 10 years by playing this game. Please, for fucks sake, think about that before you vote for one of these parties.