murve33 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I really really hope I am wrong, and that an excellent 3rd party candidate will emerge. I suppose this is a good time. Nobody trusts the democrats, and the republican party is in shambles in addition to being split by the Tea Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I am convinced then. This is the end of the USA as we formally know it. No worries, im done proselytizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The Tea Party breaking up the GOP might be a step in the right direction. All the batshit insane right wingers would join them and the rest of the GOP would be the more moderate ones, albeit still very business friendly and hopefully it would also get some blue dog Dems over to them and the true progressives could become more prominent in the Democratic party. That said, the Dems have a less cohesive party with more infighting than the GOP so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I'm just hoping both parties split. I know myself and other Liberals do not feel at home in the Democrat party any longer. Plus if the Democrats split, republicans conservatives wouldn't worry about keeping the Tea Party and main Republicans together. I never can tell if America is realizing they're not being represented, or if I and a couple of the people around are just realizing it. I hope it's the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Really, the way I look at this election is Obama vs. Batshit Crazy Republican. We have a two-party system in a country where the majority of people get their political information from the Mainstream Media or word of mouth (whose source is the mainstream media watered down into shit). These people are not going to vote 3rd Party. I will not be voting for a batshit crazy republican, because I don't want them to win. So I guess, my vote for Obama (unless a good 3rd Party candidate does gain notoriety) is more 2 votes against the insane republicans. I do recognize that the Obama administration is still running horrible Bush policies. I don't know how much of that is his fault or congresses, but it's hard to argue for him when the Democrats had power in the beginning of his term. He should have gotten rid of them immediately. I'll still hear you out Awe. Just be less malicious, it's frustrating to read. when you say malicious do you mean towards people who support Obama or towards the Obama whitehouse itself? If you mean towards his supporters i can get on board with that, it's beyond frustrating to watch people who seem intelligent defend such absolutely horrible policy. IF you mean towards the office itself, i i absolutely refuse to tone down anything based on their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I mean towards us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 all class. http://news.yahoo.com/perry-signs-pledge-anti-gay-marriage-amendment-161046437.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Yuck, George Dubya tried to do the same thing, and Clinton's defense of marriage act is still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2011/sep/08/rick-perry-ron-paul-photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Perry knows that even though the media is giving him a free ride. That Ron Paul is the real contender. The media has been working hard to invalidate him through omission though, really fucking hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 If Ron Paul was a ways younger, he could have slowly gained a consensus through multiple elections....he seems to be too old/too far gone at this point. Plus (and Im not pushing for Paul here), but just as an example for why Paul is unelectable to Republicans: "I can't vote for Ron Paul, he is unelectable. He makes too much sense." This comes from my grandfather, who is a hardcore anti Obama/Democrat everything. Even if this statement is not true, the fact that he actually made such a ridiculous statement shows the massive dissonance amongst most American voters. Its really fucking frustrating. But yeah, if Perry acts like that to a contender, how does one think he will act towards the populous once in office? I think you guys called this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 "I can't vote for Ron Paul, he is unelectable. He makes too much sense." This comes from my grandfather, who is a hardcore anti Obama/Democrat everything. Even if this statement is not true, the fact that he actually made such a ridiculous statement shows the massive dissonance amongst most American voters. Its really fucking frustrating. . That's actually really sad, that people have simply giving up the notion of ever getting a good guy in office (Paul is not one of them, though). Having a passive populace is everything a powerful elite could want. They can keep running things as they see fit, knowing that whatever they do the people will just groan, shrug and say "What can we do?" before moving on with their meaningless lives. If this sort of apathy and loss of hope is at all indicative of the masses as a whole, then I don't see any change coming to the politics of the US anytime soon. Perhaps it's the idea of American exceptionalism that is so ingrained in the populace that they feel reluctant to make a stand. Surely, it wouldn't be appropriate for the people of the greatest democracy ever created, with a blessing from God himself, to rise against the leadership for being corrupt and abusive of their position. That would put the exceptional America on par with the rest of the world that can have revolutions and upheavals because they aren't as great as America. I wonder when the large masses will realize that America isn't great. When they find themselves in corporate serfdom to get some food on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 "I can't vote for Ron Paul, he is unelectable. He makes too much sense." This comes from my grandfather, who is a hardcore anti Obama/Democrat everything. Even if this statement is not true, the fact that he actually made such a ridiculous statement shows the massive dissonance amongst most American voters. Its really fucking frustrating. . That's actually really sad, that people have simply giving up the notion of ever getting a good guy in office (Paul is not one of them, though). Having a passive populace is everything a powerful elite could want. They can keep running things as they see fit, knowing that whatever they do the people will just groan, shrug and say "What can we do?" before moving on with their meaningless lives. If this sort of apathy and loss of hope is at all indicative of the masses as a whole, then I don't see any change coming to the politics of the US anytime soon. Perhaps it's the idea of American exceptionalism that is so ingrained in the populace that they feel reluctant to make a stand. Surely, it wouldn't be appropriate for the people of the greatest democracy ever created, with a blessing from God himself, to rise against the leadership for being corrupt and abusive of their position. That would put the exceptional America on par with the rest of the world that can have revolutions and upheavals because they aren't as great as America. I wonder when the large masses will realize that America isn't great. When they find themselves in corporate serfdom to get some food on the table? It will have to be something extreme. You're hitting on a lot of aspects of American society that are very true. Democrats exploit minorities and bleeding heart liberals and point the blame on corporations and "evil right-wingers". Republicans exploit rural white Americans and social conservatives and point the blame to Unions and 'elitist liberals." Media promotes ignorance for ratings. I think it's telling that the most visceral and hateful the rhetoric on each side, the more vague and untruthful it is. Power and corruptions knows no strict ideology, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. As long as Americans are fairly content, they'll choose a side blindly or stray to apathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 thats prolly the best post in this thread. I can't seriously indulge in the idea of a Democrat being more competant than a Republican at this point. I remember someone said, they aren't representing anything the voters want anymore, think of them more as brand managers. They are there to sell a pre-defined plan and craft towards voters to win over their support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 brave new world yo. gotta make a choice in this bitch. gonna live on the pill or mofuckin donut off into truthland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Holy shit, after watching these Tea Party debates, I respect Ron Paul a good deal more. Ron Paul actually took American responsibility for shit that we've done to the middle east. No official has ever done that, they always feel like they have to be super patriotic and not take responsibility for our actions. I don't know about a lot of Paul's issues, and I'm sure they're batshit crazy, disparisment or whatever her name is brought up some pretty anti-gay anti-right to choose things he's said. I'm super fucking high though, so maybe I'll regret this post. Shit was pretty fun to watch though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTZpRfy594E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nene multiple assgasms Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I agree with and disagree with a lot of what ron paul says, but at least he seems to actually believe the things he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 the thing that i find so amazing when you realize just how mainstream it has become to lob 'crazy' at Ron Paul when in some people's minds (including my own) killing millions of people in the middle east for some sort of long term Machiavellian global chess game is one of the most insane things of all (Far more than any 'bat-shit' libertarian theory). What would normally be referred to as nazi like or serial killer like actions on a mass scale has become so normalized that black is white... and up is down..... and er Ron Paul is crazy and George W/Obama are sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Holy shit, after watching these Tea Party debates, I respect Ron Paul a good deal more. Ron Paul actually took American responsibility for shit that we've done to the middle east. this article speaks to exactly the point you're making http://www.salon.com...010/05/28/crazy One of the favorite self-affirming pastimes of establishment Democratic and Republican pundits is to mock anyone and everyone outside of the two-party mainstream as crazy, sick lunatics. That serves to bolster the two political parties as the sole arbiters of what is acceptable: anyone who meaningfully deviates from their orthodoxies are, by definition, fringe, crazy losers. Ron Paul is one of those most frequently smeared in that fashion, and even someone like Howard Dean, during those times when he stepped outside of mainstream orthodoxy, was similarly smeared as literally insane, and still is. Last night, the crazy, hateful, fringe lunatic Ron Paul voted to repeal the Clinton-era Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy (or, more accurately, he voted to allow the Pentagon to repeal it if and when it chooses to) -- while 26 normal, sane, upstanding, mainstream House Democrats voted to retain that bigoted policy. Paul explained today that he changed his mind on DADT because gay constituents of his who were forced out of the military convinced him of the policy's wrongness -- how insane and evil he is! In 2003, the crank lunatic-monster Ron Paul vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq, while countless sane, normal, upstanding, good-hearted Democrats -- including the current Vice President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Senate Majority Leader, House Majority Leader, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, and many of the progressive pundits who love to scorn Ron Paul as insane -- supported the monstrous attack on that country. ... There's no question that Ron Paul holds some views that are wrong, irrational and even odious. But that's true for just about every single politician in both major political parties (just look at the condition of the U.S. if you doubt that; and note how Ron Paul's anti-abortion views render him an Untouchable for progressives while Harry Reid's anti-abortion views permit him to be a Progressive hero and even Senate Majority Leader). My point isn't that Ron Paul is not crazy; it's that those who self-righteously apply that label to him and to others invariably embrace positions and support politicians at least as "crazy." Indeed, those who support countless insane policies and/or who support politicians in their own party who do -- from the Iraq War to the Drug War, from warrantless eavesdropping and denial of habeas corpus to presidential assassinations and endless war in the Muslim world -- love to spit the "crazy" label at anyone who falls outside of the two-party establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 yeop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 killing millions it's about time to back those numbers up because they seemingly grow by millions with your every new post about the issue, do you equal "casualties as a result of conflict" to "personally murdered by pres. obamba" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Brown people count too, eugene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 really ? would it makes your idms sadder if it were revealed that the civilian casualties in iraq are 1.05 million instead of presumed million ? it's not what i was asking of gb3 anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Holy shit, after watching these Tea Party debates, I respect Ron Paul a good deal more. Ron Paul actually took American responsibility for shit that we've done to the middle east. No official has ever done that, they always feel like they have to be super patriotic and not take responsibility for our actions. I don't know about a lot of Paul's issues, and I'm sure they're batshit crazy, disparisment or whatever her name is brought up some pretty anti-gay anti-right to choose things he's said. I'm super fucking high though, so maybe I'll regret this post. Shit was pretty fun to watch though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTZpRfy594E I agree with and disagree with a lot of what ron paul says, but at least he seems to actually believe the things he says. The amazing thing is he's held that position his entire career. He updates his beliefs, but he doesn't bend or compromise his core ideals. He's conservative, yes, but he doesn't legislate social policies. This is why he's had such a dedicated fanbase for years and one of the main reasons I can affirm that the Tea Party, in general, has officially become a hypocritical and compromised entity. The GOP use to bury him for this. Even now, Rick Perry is very neo-con in his foreign policy proposals (what little he's said anyway)...coupled with his views on the Federal government, he basically wants America to be an Imperialist Confederacy. this article speaks to exactly the point you're making http://www.salon.com...010/05/28/crazy One of the favorite self-affirming pastimes of establishment Democratic and Republican pundits is to mock anyone and everyone outside of the two-party mainstream as crazy, sick lunatics. That serves to bolster the two political parties as the sole arbiters of what is acceptable: anyone who meaningfully deviates from their orthodoxies are, by definition, fringe, crazy losers. Ron Paul is one of those most frequently smeared in that fashion, and even someone like Howard Dean, during those times when he stepped outside of mainstream orthodoxy, was similarly smeared as literally insane, and still is. Last night, the crazy, hateful, fringe lunatic Ron Paul voted to repeal the Clinton-era Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy (or, more accurately, he voted to allow the Pentagon to repeal it if and when it chooses to) -- while 26 normal, sane, upstanding, mainstream House Democrats voted to retain that bigoted policy. Paul explained today that he changed his mind on DADT because gay constituents of his who were forced out of the military convinced him of the policy's wrongness -- how insane and evil he is! In 2003, the crank lunatic-monster Ron Paul vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq, while countless sane, normal, upstanding, good-hearted Democrats -- including the current Vice President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Senate Majority Leader, House Majority Leader, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, and many of the progressive pundits who love to scorn Ron Paul as insane -- supported the monstrous attack on that country. ... There's no question that Ron Paul holds some views that are wrong, irrational and even odious. But that's true for just about every single politician in both major political parties (just look at the condition of the U.S. if you doubt that; and note how Ron Paul's anti-abortion views render him an Untouchable for progressives while Harry Reid's anti-abortion views permit him to be a Progressive hero and even Senate Majority Leader). My point isn't that Ron Paul is not crazy; it's that those who self-righteously apply that label to him and to others invariably embrace positions and support politicians at least as "crazy." Indeed, those who support countless insane policies and/or who support politicians in their own party who do -- from the Iraq War to the Drug War, from warrantless eavesdropping and denial of habeas corpus to presidential assassinations and endless war in the Muslim world -- love to spit the "crazy" label at anyone who falls outside of the two-party establishment. Good points. killing millions it's about time to back those numbers up because they seemingly grow by millions with your every new post about the issue, do you equal "casualties as a result of conflict" to "personally murdered by pres. obamba" ? I've noticed this too. Maybe the scope of wars they reference keeps expanding. Probably why it's more important to keep the debate on policies and ideals rather that lob around gross estimates and extreme accusations...no wait, we're on the internet, nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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