WWDC Conference 11th-15th June

[o00o]

I am running iOS 6 beta since yesterday and besides the new maps app (not working in 3D on my iPhone 4 by default) its very stable

[chenGOD]

if I have a browser and terminal, Apple has no ability to restrict my means of adding software.

Also it appears that Gatekeeper does not restrict you to the AppStore at all.

 

http://tidbits.com/article/12795

[Gordon]

Pretty gutted about no updates to the imac. Would it even be sensible to buy one right now? being that it may be likely a new one my turn up next year? Retina displays sound great but i find the clarity great right now as well, just hoped for improved hardware, maybe some design changes...

[o00o]

Pretty gutted about no updates to the imac. Would it even be sensible to buy one right now? being that it may be likely a new one my turn up next year? Retina displays sound great but i find the clarity great right now as well, just hoped for improved hardware, maybe some design changes...

 

I assume they will update it when the new iphone is released around october

[Rubin Farr]

I really doubt that companies like Avid would go along with app store only, fucking Protools is the standard, as is Avid editing. They're really gonna bite the hand of the entertainment industry? That kept them in business in the late 90s, early 2000s. before the mobile explosion.

[Joyrex]

The Mac Pro "refresh," is a huge slap in the face to Apple's dwindling professional core. Probably a nail in that coffin. Cook apparently has gone on the defensive and hinted that something good is coming for pros next year. The last major refresh of the Mac Pro was in 2009. Unbelievable.

 

I was saving up for an iMac, myself. I would have been fine with a minor graphics and processor bump. It's a solid machine as is. But there's no reason for nothing. Now Apple's just selling year + old hardware at the same price point, and it's just not a justifiable purchase.

 

Nothing big is coming. Apple isn't going to sneak a major iMac redesign into a press release. So why no refresh now?

 

I'm left with pulling the plug on a now massively expensive macbook pro in order to gain some needed screen real estate and resolution, or abandoning this platform altogether. My 2007 MBP is on its last legs after a pretty good 5 year run.

 

But the writing is on the wall. Apple is catering to gadget fanboys who will wait and buy anything, not power (or even prosumer) users with long buying cycles, who might need to pull the trigger on a refreshed model any given year. I can't imagine any other company holding off on minor refreshes just because something big is planned a year or two down the line.

 

406 days since last iMac update, and counting. Apple PR told its stooge David Pogue to make a statement about something coming "in 2013." Fucking disgraceful.

 

Meanwhile, if Apple is trying to revise the iMac with a retina display, it's going to have to be the first iMac with a serious desktop class graphics card. And what's the likelihood of that happening?

 

I guess you can't please everyone - people whinge about yearly refreshes, then we have some who whinge (and keep track, apparently) about how long between refreshes are - These Retina displays are relatively new tech, and I am sure Apple put the first non-iPad Retina display on the top end of their product line to see what the response would be, and eventually it will filter down to the other products as well. As for the likelyhood of an iMac having a "desktop class graphics card", why not? You can get a pretty serious graphics card in the 27" iMac if I remember correctly.

 

I do agree that they've ignored the Mac Pro and Mini lines for far too long, but can't you upgrade the graphics cards in a Pro, not to mention the HDD and optical drive, and add a USB 3.0/Thunderbolt PCI card? They did bump up the processor (although that wasn't announced), but they should have gone for a full tech refresh, for sure.

 

no optical drive. wtf?

 

1. creative people burn CDs all the time... especially musicians

2. there are still companies out there that sell their software on dvds to install them

3. people often play DVD movies in the laptops.

 

are they expecting us to all go out and buy portable dvd drives? fucking lame!

 

1. Apple doesn't care about content creators anymore, unless you're creating iOS apps. Apple makes money from content consumers.

2. Apple doesn't want you to buy software unless you're buying it from the Apple Download Store.

3. Apple doesn't want you to play DVDs, it wants you to "purchase" content from iTunes.

 

Apple is expecting you to buy it's $75 $79 external non-BD drive if you really want it.

 

Apple's current business strategy is to consolidate all purchases within the iTunes or App Store environments, and it will no longer include hardware that fosters competition with those environments.

Where would you like your vagisil shipped to?

lol

 

Take your pic.

http://www.newegg.co...-Blu-Ray-Drives

 

As to the AppStore, do you seriously think that Apple is going to cut off other ways to install software on their laptops/computers?

 

Finally, Apple makes many announcements in late January, and this is probably where you will see the upgrades to the iMac/Mac Pro line.

 

Ah, the voice of reason - also, don't they usually announce things in September/October as well? I would imagine that's when the iMac refresh, along with the iPhone 5 will materialize.

 

Here's all you need to know:

 

http://www.apple.com.../mountain-lion/

 

That looks fucking awful. I'll stick with snow leopard.

 

LOL - it hardly looks different, barring some minor cosmetic changes to the UI - I can't understand how someone can dismiss something over a few screenshots so quickly. I love Lion, and my old iMac that can only run Snow Leopard due to only having a 32-bit CPU, I can assure you going back to that is painful after using Lion, in my experience.

 

I really doubt that companies like Avid would go along with app store only, fucking Protools is the standard, as is Avid editing. They're really gonna bite the hand of the entertainment industry? That kept them in business in the late 90s, early 2000s. before the mobile explosion.

 

More and more companies are digitally delivering their once multi-DVD apps online as a standard practice - some have even started making digital the standard, with a boxed version a nice extra. Apple's not forcing anyone to sell through the App Store - yet.

[o00o]

I really prefer downloads over boxed versions. I can get the software right at the spot and during the time I would drive into the city everything installs by itself.

[baph]

no optical drive. wtf?

 

1. creative people burn CDs all the time... especially musicians

2. there are still companies out there that sell their software on dvds to install them

3. people often play DVD movies in the laptops.

 

are they expecting us to all go out and buy portable dvd drives? fucking lame!

 

1. Apple doesn't care about content creators anymore, unless you're creating iOS apps. Apple makes money from content consumers.

2. Apple doesn't want you to buy software unless you're buying it from the Apple Download Store.

3. Apple doesn't want you to play DVDs, it wants you to "purchase" content from iTunes.

 

Apple is expecting you to buy it's $75 $79 external non-BD drive if you really want it.

 

Apple's current business strategy is to consolidate all purchases within the iTunes or App Store environments, and it will no longer include hardware that fosters competition with those environments.

Where would you like your vagisil shipped to?

lol

 

Take your pic.

http://www.newegg.co...-Blu-Ray-Drives

 

As to the AppStore, do you seriously think that Apple is going to cut off other ways to install software on their laptops/computers?

 

Finally, Apple makes many announcements in late January, and this is probably where you will see the upgrades to the iMac/Mac Pro line.

 

Jesus Christ, dude. I never said Apple was restricting access to software. They're disincentivising purchases elsewhere. This is clear company policy. It's also a good business decision from a shareholder perspective.

 

Apple waiting until January 2013 to update an iMac which last saw a refresh in May 2011, when the major anticipated architectural and graphical changes have already been incorporated into the way-more-complicated notebook line, is not defensible. I'm not asking for a major redesign, I'm asking for a spec bump so that I can purchase an item for close to $3,000.00 with contemporary technology.

 

I'm sorry for being so unreasonable, Chen.

[baph]

Pretty gutted about no updates to the imac. Would it even be sensible to buy one right now? being that it may be likely a new one my turn up next year? Retina displays sound great but i find the clarity great right now as well, just hoped for improved hardware, maybe some design changes...

 

It's definitely not sensible to buy an iMac right now. It would be if Apple significantly dropped prices to acknowledge that it will be selling May, 2011 technology for the foreseeable future, but Apple is not dropping prices.

 

If Apple is trying to incorporate a Retina display into, say, a 27" iMac, it will likely require a significant redesign, at least internally, especially with respect to graphics card options. It'll be a bitch of a screen to drive with a mobile graphics card (and, Joyrex, yes, Apple puts mobile cards in the iMac). I would imagine that waiting until next year is reasonable for such a redesign, if indeed such a redesign is even technically feasible (at a reasonable price point). If done correctly, it could be a beautiful machine.

 

That said, there's no excuse for Apple not throwing Ivy Bridge, USB 3, and a new graphics card into the current iMac design. That would be a nice, contemporary, powerful all-in-one, and all the tech has been incorporated into the much harder-to-design macbook pro.

 

Jesus Fucking Christ at all these "whinging" comments. The average iMac refresh span has been 273 days. The current iMac has not been refreshed for 407 days. Apple is becoming increasingly slow to address its desktop line.

 

If apple does not want to refresh its desktop line once a year, apple should drop the price of the desktop merch it is selling.

 

But this is an unreasonable demand, even from a guy who's happily bought into the apple ecosystem for years, because it's apple. Nobody would hesitate criticizing another company for spec bump delays.

[baph]

Joyrex, the processor bump on the Mac Pro wasn't a processor bump to intel's current Xeon architecture. It was basically an old-fashioned MHz bump, and the "new" processor included a few days ago has been available for (IIRC) over a year. It isn't contemporary architecture. And the graphics card is 3 years old. No USB 3.0, no Thunderbolt.

 

I've heard tell that Apple is having a rather tough time reconciling the new Xeon E5 architecture (honestly, I'm having a hard time keeping track of intel's current code name nomenclature) with Thunderbolt. Seems odd that intel things wouldn't play nice with... intel things like Thunderbolt/Light Peak, though. I dunno. Just a rumor.

 

Anyway, if that's actually the case, I don't think you could just drop an E5 and Thunderbolt into the 'new' Mac Pro.

 

Even if you could, you'd be better off buying a second hand Mac Pro rather than spend as much money as apple wants you to on the 'new' Mac Pro.

 

Interestingly, the Mac Pro issue this week seems to be one of the few times Apple has broken the secrecy veil and admitted to future plans-- it's also removed the 'new' badge over the MP image on the Apple Store website.

[Joyrex]

I'm aware they've been putting mobile cards in the iMac line for some time - just because it's a mobile card doesn't mean it can't pack the same punch. Now, integrated graphics cards that share system RAM... that's another story.

 

I guess I can't quite understand your indignation at Apple not refreshing certain lines so often - I would think from a consumer/business perspective, getting a better ROI by having a machine refresh ever 3 years or so would make sense, and since Apples are built to last, I don't see why using a 3 year old machine would impact your work (I have no clue as to what you do, so perhaps there is a valid business concern for having the latest and greatest tech).

 

I think the biggest mistake they made was not having Retina display on the "new" MacBookPro 13" (I'm personally glad they dropped the 17"... that was too big for a supposedly "portable' machine) - who would bother buying either of those models when there's the superior Retina-display enabled version, and it being just a matter of time until the Retina display comes to the rest of their line. That , as a consumer, frustrates me more than anything if I needed to buy a new laptop now and didn't want to spend the premium to get the Retina display, only to see it appear in the cheaper models within a year or so.

[baph]

But (using your 3 year refresh idea) why would you buy a new iMac with 3 year old technology if the price isn't adjusted to reflect that? Really? All I'm asking is for Apple to either refresh regularly, once a year, as technology becomes available [like they used to!], or drop the prices of its stock to reflect what you're actually purchasing.

 

I just absolutely do not understand how anyone making a non-emergency computer purchase can justify paying that much for old technology, without resorting to some fanboy bullshit about apple knowing what's best for you and you falling into complete lockstep with apple's refresh cycle-- e.g., buy on day one of refresh, wait, buy on day one of eventual refresh.

 

My laptop is dying. It's 5 years old. It's a MacBook Pro, and I got a great ROI. It was built to last, but its lifespan was positively influenced by maxing out options on a day 1 refresh. If I hadn't waited for a refresh and maxed out, I wouldn't be running Lion on a 2007 laptop right now. I have defended apple's pricing vigorously in the past, but in the past apple refreshed its line once a year. I can't maximize my ROI with the current iMac, unless and until it is updated to reflect mid-2012 technology, or its pricing is lowered to reflect the likelihood that it'll be reaching obsolescence (even by Apple's own typical software upgrade timeline) a bit sooner, now.

 

As for why the iMac and not one of the newly refreshed laptops: for work purposes, I definitely need more screen real estate, and using a laptop constantly is not particularly ergonomic.

 

I'm not trying to slag off apple or anything. I do think it's perfectly reasonable to be upset about ever-lengthening refresh rates and increasing emphasis on yearly updates to iDevices.

 

(As for the lack of optical drive thing, I honestly don't care unless OS X goes on complete lockdown, which it hasn't. But Apple's rational for removing optical drives is obviously not just to altruistically make the device thinner. It's a fucking publicly-traded corporation, not a saint.)

 

If the economics of an iMac purchase today at current pricing makes sense to you, then more power to you. I don't speak for everyone, but I do speak for myself, and if I want to fucking criticize a company that I have sunk many thousands of dollars into, I will do so.

[Joyrex]

I agree with you not wanting to buy "3 year old tech", but who pays full price these days for Apple stuff unless it's brand-spanking new? My 2011 13" MBP I payed 1130USD for, well under the 1199USD "retail price" by waiting for it to be on sale - similarly, you can get Apple-refurbished devices much cheaper (my 1st gen iPad was only 470 when I got it (before iPad 2 came out), factory refurbished by Apple - they take the guts of an existing iPad that couldn't be sold as new for whatever reason, and slapped it in a brand new shell and screen - that's good as new to me, and I saved 30USD off the price.

 

I hear you about screen real estate - one of the frustrating things about my MBP is the abysmal 1280x800 screen resolution - way too small for the kind of development work I do. My solution? Bought a cheap 24" HP monitor and a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter. I'd love to get a Cinema Display, but that's way too pricey, even refurbished or used.

 

Also, I said I didn't understand where your criticism was coming from, not whether you had the right to express it or not.

[chenGOD]

no optical drive. wtf?

 

1. creative people burn CDs all the time... especially musicians

2. there are still companies out there that sell their software on dvds to install them

3. people often play DVD movies in the laptops.

 

are they expecting us to all go out and buy portable dvd drives? fucking lame!

 

1. Apple doesn't care about content creators anymore, unless you're creating iOS apps. Apple makes money from content consumers.

2. Apple doesn't want you to buy software unless you're buying it from the Apple Download Store.

3. Apple doesn't want you to play DVDs, it wants you to "purchase" content from iTunes.

 

Apple is expecting you to buy it's $75 $79 external non-BD drive if you really want it.

 

Apple's current business strategy is to consolidate all purchases within the iTunes or App Store environments, and it will no longer include hardware that fosters competition with those environments.

Where would you like your vagisil shipped to?

lol

 

Take your pic.

http://www.newegg.co...-Blu-Ray-Drives

 

As to the AppStore, do you seriously think that Apple is going to cut off other ways to install software on their laptops/computers?

 

Finally, Apple makes many announcements in late January, and this is probably where you will see the upgrades to the iMac/Mac Pro line.

 

Jesus Christ, dude. I never said Apple was restricting access to software. They're disincentivising purchases elsewhere. This is clear company policy. It's also a good business decision from a shareholder perspective.

 

Apple waiting until January 2013 to update an iMac which last saw a refresh in May 2011, when the major anticipated architectural and graphical changes have already been incorporated into the way-more-complicated notebook line, is not defensible. I'm not asking for a major redesign, I'm asking for a spec bump so that I can purchase an item for close to $3,000.00 with contemporary technology.

 

I'm sorry for being so unreasonable, Chen.

 

lol. wow, i can see you're seriously invested, so, um i'm gonna back away slowly.

 

 

although, just to be clear, you'd be alright paying 3k for a spec bump?

[baph]

Depends on the spec bump on the TOL model, innit. I'm factoring in extended apple care (because I've had to use it in the past, more than once, on apple gear with mobile components) and taxes. All of the reasonably maxed out apple kit approaches that figure, and the MBP exceeds it. But 3k for 5+ years of usability is a decent ROI. That's why I need a spec bump to contemporary levels before justifying.

 

I got a decent tax return for the first time in... ever, and it was all earmarked. In my mind. Mind-marked.

 

I'm not really that invested in apple arguments. Just explaining myself. You're the one who accused me of having a yeast infection in my mangina, lol. WHICH I DO NOT HAVE. The yeast infection, I mean. I do have a mangina.

[chenGOD]

well you'll probably get that spec-bump in January. So, you should mind-save that mind-marked tax return and then find someone who's a student and get the education discount.

[Gordon]

The new Mac book does make me salivate a touch, there is a touch of resentment though now that my 8 month old Mac book pro is now out of date. I still love it though :p

[Guest]

just think of what kind of crazy machine from the future you'll be able to buy as a replacement in 3-4 years, when you really need to.

[Joyrex]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is wait until later this year to consider getting the Retina MacBook, since right now almost no 3rd party apps have updated to support the display (even Google Chrome is just now getting the support in the nightly builds). I think it would be too painful trying to work with apps that are pixel doubled. Why didn't Apple just allow the apps to run at 1:1 pixel resolution to everything just gets tinier?

[o00o]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is wait until later this year to consider getting the Retina MacBook, since right now almost no 3rd party apps have updated to support the display (even Google Chrome is just now getting the support in the nightly builds). I think it would be too painful trying to work with apps that are pixel doubled. Why didn't Apple just allow the apps to run at 1:1 pixel resolution to everything just gets tinier?

 

same thing happend to me back then with my brand new retina iphone. it took more than 6 month for 40% of my apps to support retina. So most of the time I did not have access to a core feature I payed for

[BCM]

just want to say that having bought a new iMac last year I'm glad it's not been superseded yet and I won't have the nagging feeling that I should now upgrade etc etc. looks like it'll still be relevant into next year w00t!

[Joyrex]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is wait until later this year to consider getting the Retina MacBook, since right now almost no 3rd party apps have updated to support the display (even Google Chrome is just now getting the support in the nightly builds). I think it would be too painful trying to work with apps that are pixel doubled. Why didn't Apple just allow the apps to run at 1:1 pixel resolution to everything just gets tinier?

 

same thing happend to me back then with my brand new retina iphone. it took more than 6 month for 40% of my apps to support retina. So most of the time I did not have access to a core feature I payed for

 

I waited some time before getting my iPhone 4S last December, so by then I really didn't have that issue.

[o00o]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is wait until later this year to consider getting the Retina MacBook, since right now almost no 3rd party apps have updated to support the display (even Google Chrome is just now getting the support in the nightly builds). I think it would be too painful trying to work with apps that are pixel doubled. Why didn't Apple just allow the apps to run at 1:1 pixel resolution to everything just gets tinier?

 

same thing happend to me back then with my brand new retina iphone. it took more than 6 month for 40% of my apps to support retina. So most of the time I did not have access to a core feature I payed for

 

I waited some time before getting my iPhone 4S last December, so by then I really didn't have that issue.

 

yeah you are safe if you wait a bit. same with imacs / macbooks after a new OS is introduced

[baph]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is wait until later this year to consider getting the Retina MacBook, since right now almost no 3rd party apps have updated to support the display (even Google Chrome is just now getting the support in the nightly builds). I think it would be too painful trying to work with apps that are pixel doubled. Why didn't Apple just allow the apps to run at 1:1 pixel resolution to everything just gets tinier?

 

It's not a bad idea to wait a while before purchasing any major Revision A Apple product.

 

I've definitely convinced myself not to buy the Retinabook: http://www.wired.com...-retina-displa/

You'd be insane to buy that without the extend warranty, but the warranty is over $300, and the thing is seriously pricey as is, plus, since neither RAM nor flash drive are upgradeable, you're sort of stuck with lowballing it forever, or paying Apple's ridiculous RAM upgrade BTO prices.

 

I've never had a laptop battery last more than 2 years, and my old MBP battery typically only lasted a year and a half (with proper conditioning according to Apple's guidelines, even). Applecare covered a few of those replacements, plus a logic board replacement (2007 was a bad year for MBP logic boards), and I was always thankful for purchasing the extended plan. But once Applecare expired, I was still able to keep the thing happily plugging away on my own. Can't do that, here.

 

I'm sure the retina display and the thin unibody look beautiful in person, but I am not rolling in enough dough to be the target purchaser for this one. Yikes.

 

I would like to see how the GT 650 M handles the pixel density for gaming. A assume you need to scale the resolution, which is probably fine, but I want to read about how that looks in practice. None of the early reviews seem to touch on it.

[Joyrex]

I got to see a Retina Display MBP in person this weekend; colour me impressed. The pixel doubling on apps and images is very noticable to my eyes, so I will certainly wait until more apps update (although the Genius at the Apple store told me Photoshop CS6 already rolled out an update for Retina display support). Might see about leveraging my son's college discount on that one

 

Regarding your Mac Pro woes, here's a timely Lifehacker article about "Building the Mac Pro Apple Didn't Announce":

 

http://lifehacker.com/5919132/build-the-mac-pro-that-you-wish-apple-released