Guest Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 i slowly begin to understand the appeal of the OT.. kinda like MDUW RAM/ROM machines on a bucket full of steroids... yea that works :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Yep, and not only that but with this added concept of "scenes" which are snapshots of parameter settings for the part (kit in MnM/MD nomenclature). At first I thought the crossfader was just a gimmick, but being able to transition gesturally between 2 sets of global parameters is quite fun and can lead you down some interesting paths. Especially when you can switch between which scenes are selected quite rapidly. With the effects, it starts feeling more like a weird sample-based synth than a phrase sampler. Although you can treat it like a phrase sampler too. I think a lot of the frustration and misunderstanding about the OT comes from the fact that there's almost too much you can do with it - it can play many roles. Put it next to another piece of equipment and you'll find way it can complement it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jasondonervan Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Being a Machinedrum and Monomachine owner, I can't believe I only found about the A4 in the last few days. I realised I hadn't visited the Elektron users forum in years, where as I used to frequent it religiously. Sad that I only read yesterday about Actuel passing away, and that was over a year ago. Anyway, I've never really had much luck with my Elektron boxes. I don't doubt their abilities for a second, and have pulled some really interesting sounds from them, but I've never got to a stage where I felt completely in control when operating them. I'll echo a well-worn sentiment over the years that they are quite unintuitive to get to grips with. I often feel like whenever I leave them for a little while, I'll always end up having to re-learn a lot of stuff - which is the opposite of most other hardware I have. I'm half-tempted to cut my losses on the old boxes and sell them off. I really like what I'm hearing/seeing of the A4, so can any of you fresh owners say how it stacks up against your experience (if any) with previous Elektron machines, usability-wise? There's no way to demo a unit where I am, and I'd rather not throw £900 at the thing only to discover I'm in the same position as before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 i'd say if you don't like the detailed tweaking you can do on the MD/MM, you'll probably have similar feelings towards the A4. as with the other machines, you'll need to spend time designing those sounds if you want them to be any good.... but when you do, boy, this thing can sound massive! The UI and the sequencer itself are more modern than in the older machines, and while it has a bunch of very useful features over the older machines, it's a bit simpler to use because all the tracks are hardwired to a specific function, so there is far less menu-diving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Sorry to necro reply but this thread got bumped and I just had to say something. I mean seriously no transient detection/beat slicing? The thing would be a fucking beast if it had that, especially since it's designed for real-time sample capturing.Honestly, Awep, don't you think this is a silly thing to get hung up on? I respect your opinion but there's a million and three samplers that can do that already. Naturally Elektron would do something different. The Octatrack can do things that would be difficult or impossible in anything but some crazy customized Reaktor or Max patch, and you can set them up pretty quickly. what hardware samplers with a sequencer built in can do this besides an mpc? Something with an elektron sequencer that can do beat slicing would fit perfectly into my current setup, without it I'll stick to software samplers. Why is it silly to want something that you require? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 If it's a feature you really need, then of course I understand why not having it would prevent you from checking out the OT. It's just that I've seen it requested on the Elektron forum and while I see why it could be useful, I just think doesn't really match the OT workflow or design. I think something like Live or Maschine where you're moving around a visible timeline makes more sense with this feature. The OT on the other hand is very oriented toward live sampling as well as grid-based sequencing and is not so visual. In that paradigm I think it makes more sense to slice into even parts rather than auto-slicing based on transients. Reason being, predictability. You know exactly what you're getting with even slices. And in my experience, algorithmic detection and assignment never puts slices exactly where I'd like them. Probably just as importantly, algorithmic slicing usually creates an unpredictable number of slices. Again, not a big deal in other environments where you can map slices a little in advance by hand. But the OT can lock (and modulate!) slice number. When improvising, you need to know what sound that number refers to just by looking at it to know what you're putting into your sequence. If I'm not sure that 5 and 13 (or 3 and 7 for 8 slices) have snares, I may not know which slices do. So for this style of sequencing, especially when live sampling, even slices work much better. Finally the slice editing is pretty decent - I found it easier than the MPC. So if you do want to create unevenly spaced slices beforehand, it's about as easy as it gets with no mouse. Not a whole lot more time moving/creating slices around than would be spent on transient slices, since in the latter case you'd probably need to edit them anyway. In my case it would probably be faster. Maybe I've just had bad luck with beat detection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 the Octatrack has the best featured Elektron sequencer/arpeggiator for external MIDI, its one thing I didn't really realise until recently it's just a shame you'll need another TurboMIDI machine to use its full potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 That is true and you can do some pretty interesting things with it, like using custom LFOs to restrict chord notes, or using the random arp at a very slow speed to create note "pools" on each step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 yeah the whole point of the way i do beat slicing is ending up with an unpredictable number of slices. ITs hard to explain but as far as 'live' sampling unless i'm doing melody, i can't really work any other way it's what i've gotten used to. For now i'll stick with reaktor to beat slice a 1 minute file and end up with 100+ slices. I find the idea of having to 'slice' an even loop not very fun , but that's just my opinion. If the melodic sampling engine in the octatrack was more advanced, perhaps equal to the elastic audio engine in the roland v-synth I'd be interested in that too, but the clips i've heard of it's stretching algorithms sound too old school for me to be useful as well. when you brought up how it's like a max/msp patch maybe that analogy will help you understand why i need transient detection. I want to work with live improvising musicians playing acoustic instruments into a mic and be able to use that source material in a hardware sampler live while also improvising what i'm doing with it. Normally max/msp/reaktor would be perfect for this type of concept, grabbing large chunks of a solo instrument like a skin drum or a guitar and have all the individual notes and hits mapped out on a keyboard/note grid automatically. but i could see the octatrack if it had just this additional feature it would be perfect too. Without it I'd have to fiddle with manually finding slice points since none of the input from this live musician would be in a perfect loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yikes Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Speaking for myself..."hand" slicing is more accurate and gives me better knowledge of the drums I am working with. I am gonna get this machine instead of a minibrute or the ms20 mini as it is a lot more functional. every demo thus far sounds great but really similar in nature. lots of acid/techno stuff. i am wondering about bass',pads,bells etc i'm sure it will do those just fine,as well as all of the standard electronica stuff which I am not that interested in. I would like to know how deep the subs sound and how bass' are ? thanks endusers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 the bass line sounds are amazing. bass drums also sound phenomenal. The only thing so far on the analog 4 that sounds 'weak' to me are snare drum sounds, haven't figured out how to make anything close to a x0x roland sound yet, 808 bass drums are no problem though. and in response to your hand slicing comment, i agree for the most part. I'm just looking for something independent of a computer where i can process the transients of live incoming audio in real-time and manipulate it heavily upon playback. if any reaktor + A4 users are in here, i made a full CC mapped reaktor front end with each 'page' in separate clearly labeled macros. A lot of the parameters aren't CC accesible directly *yet* (elektron says they plan on putting everything in) but i've found a work around where you can use the performance pane knob assignments to reach those extra un-cc accessible parameters, and luckily all the performance knobs are CC accessible (hope that makes sense to those reading) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 dang i feel the need to listen to exai all day, means i don't get anything done with this fine baby. but yeah i can attest it is a killer bass synth. Actually everything that's good about the A4 is a direct result of the combination of that Elektron sequencer & the analog sound engine. I.e., it is a killer bass synth because a) it can make very cool bass tones b) it's great fun dialing bass lines into the sequencer the combination makes it an absolute winner. Dunno, there are synths around which probably sound better in their respective sweet spots, which is also a matter of taste, the A4 sounds very good after all. But I'd be surprised if there's a sequencer/controller around that's similarly capable and shares the thought-out realtime intuitive twiddling/tweaking qualities, including any DAW based stuff. As for pads, I've just started experimenting with oscillator sync which i didn't know about before, i guess the sounds you get from that are great for pads. Consider this: you can use the sequenced, modulated sound from a track as oscillator in the next track, which means you can stack up to 8 filters for a single sound. I'll give this a shot right after this post and see if there's a decent pad or two somewhere in there ;] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yikes Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 i want to hear a faux organ too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 also regarding bass.. someone on elektron-users pointed out that the oscillators (at least the sawtooth one) get sort of pulse-like spikey in the lower registers, taking away some fullness, which would explain the emphasis of midrange in many A4 sound demos. If you know about that though, you can easily counter this with a little overdrive and filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 and in response to your hand slicing comment, i agree for the most part. I'm just looking for something independent of a computer where i can process the transients of live incoming audio in real-time and manipulate it heavily upon playback.I've already put more than my 2 cents in on this but I'll just say that, lack of transient detection notwithstanding,the Octa is a pretty awesome instrument in its own right and is well worth checking out. If you have the opportunity to play with one for an extended period, I'd recommend you do so and then see if you still feel like you need something with that transient capability. Because otherwise it sounds like you'd have a lot of fun with it.if any reaktor + A4 users are in here, i made a full CC mapped reaktor front end with each 'page' in separate clearly labeled macros. A lot of the parameters aren't CC accesible directly *yet* (elektron says they plan on putting everything in) but i've found a work around where you can use the performance pane knob assignments to reach those extra un-cc accessible parameters, and luckily all the performance knobs are CC accessible (hope that makes sense to those reading)This is an excellent idea. I've been meaning to do something like this for the OT and I never thought to use Reaktor as a control panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 holy shit, well i rtfm, but i didn't rtfphling'spost above, and goddam this thing is a monster with parameter lockable CV LFOs jesus christ this. I've only dabbled a little, using just a Doepfer VCO and LPF, but damn. the concept of extending the A4 through external gear and routing it back in is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 got a big honking oscilloscope now. damn, this is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 so yeah i'm all over this baby... and i think it's an absurdely fresh drum machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 is that analog 4? some of the cymbals and kicks in there osund waaay better than anything i was able to come up with on it. sounds awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 thank you! yeah that's pure Analog Four, there's just a normalisation preset w/compressor from soundforge on the recording. Some sounds do use the internal FX though, especially the chorus was used for coloring. but basically I've just been following the SOS Synth Secrets articles for drums / percussion, and then kept tweaking to taste... the cymbals use both oscillators with relative fast FM via LFOs, some might have AM switches enabled, and only little noise mixed in, as per SOS instructions. These are cases where only a few specific combinations of base and FM frequencies sounded right to me, aggressive high-passing with resonance did also really help... might post some sysex once i get it sorted / labelled.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 great job, i need to spend more time with it. That kick sounds MD quality to me, the cymbals also sound better than anything from the official drum pack or that come on the machine. You've really figured out how to make this thing a bad ass analog drum box, at least much faster than I did ;).The only thing i'm proud of that i managed to do so far was make a bunch of rich modulated folding synth drones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 ill trade you your sysex file for my reaktor front end ensemble for A4 :)Although knowing your level of skill and determination you've probably already made an Ipad app that's way better than what i came up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 hehe yes i'm interested in what you did with Reaktor there! you've mentioned it a couple pages back, it was something which generates parameter automation, essentially another modulation source? in a few days there should be an extensive drum sounds pack made available by daren ager: http://elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=215857&catid=9&limit=10&limitstart=90 this should be interesting, he's posted some teasers and it sounded very good. I guess I'll share my sysex in the context of a community science lab once elektronauts.com launches (which is soonish..) re: app, let's say i'm working on it... the a4 doesn't support extensive control via sysex commands like the MD or the MnM do (yet?), so it's kinda limited what can be done at this point innit.. most useful thing i've done so far is a poly mode, which simply dispatches notes from a keyboard to the 4 synth channels, and also mirrors parameter tweaks on any one channel over to the others. it gives a taste of what poly mode on the a4 could be like, and it's lush! let's hope elektron do implement poly on this machine, it would be a shame if they didn't. well... i don't know about the upcoming features, but I know for a fact that there are major updates planned for the A4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th555 Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 This thing would be an amazing polysynth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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