Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I've been making mixes for a couple years and, as I've stated in the First-World-Achievements-thread, I was mixing live at a party for the first time ever yesterday, using Traktor and some pretty nice controller, with great success. Totally fun, about a hundred people were there. I laid down what I thought was - considering it was my first attempt at live mixing ever - a neat set. I was also told I did some very advanced transitions (?) and that my track selection was sweet. However, nobody danced. They never do! I really did play them all yesterday, Aphex/Polygon Window, Jimmie Edgar, Autechre, Luke Vibert, Squarepusher, Holy Other ... whatever. Some tracks more, others less danceable - yet somehow, all was received as "lounge music" by the majority of people - VHS Head's DPP39 is lounge music? Anvil Vapre? Nuearz? What am I missing? Whatever material I previously put in my mixes, whatever track I put on yesterday, I had people sitting in the corners, smiling, taking sips of their beer, the occasional guy asking about a track or artist name, but the only time I can recall when people were dancing to a mix of mine was at a Christmas Party at university where I played my 90s trash techno mix with Short Dick Men, Mr. Oizo, Gigi D'Agostino and so on - that and my 80s Porno Mix. Really? When the next guy took over for me last night, I went to another room for a bit. I came back maybe an hour or so later - room was full of dancing people. The guy was playing that totally dull, repetitive 4-4 minimal house techno. He did so for hours. And people LOVED him for it: "Oh, suddenly all I hear is the drums, where did the high frequency go? Oh there it is again. Keep falling for that one. Good one, DJ. Better cheer loudly and repeat this process every two minutes." - Me and the other watmmer at that party just kinda sat there WTFing each other for a while before we left the room again. Hence this thread - I really wonder, WHAT gets people dancing? Is the majority of people really this unimaginative, craving dull, uninspired, 12 minute tracks with zero variation, wanting to stay at 120 BPM for four hours straight? Should I be proud these people are NOT dancing to my stuff? I want them to have a good time, but if that would equal me playing the same track for an entire night, I'm not sure I want to be a part of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Well just keep in mind that bad things can be danceable and good things can be non-danceable, and generally speaking quality and dancability run independent of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Look man, dont be so pretentious, people dont go to dance clubs to listen to polygon window or autechre. just play this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wcw3n6LWgE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 it seems the best way to get people to dance to weird or fast music is to make sure there are a lot of drugs being distributed about. Alcohol and pot and single pickup culture are what mostly dominates 'club' or 'dancey party' scenes now, even with nerdier people with better music taste. the pickup culture is what makes it difficult to play a genuinely interesting dancey set. The less females on the dance floor, the less males on the dance floor, unless you're playing for a mostly gay audience. Believe it or not, electronic music in a club or live setting used to be much more about the actual music, now adays it mostly serves as a background vibe, so if you're interested in making an artistic statement or challenging the audience, be prepared for a clearing of the dance floor. It seems at lest here in San Francisco it's almost impossible to get any crowd to dance to things over 130 bpm, unless it's a breakcore show. Anything in between that is pretty rare to see a dancefloor erupting. The key is to find a pretty consistent bpm and pleasurable genre of dance music that you genuinely enjoy that can also serve as a means to get people to dance. Even though i'm contradicting what I said above, the 2 times i made sets comprised of exclusively 2562 and DJ stingray a lot of people danced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptowen Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 dancing (aka emotional movement) is a natural state of being, raw animal type business. Many find it difficult to dance/sing/cry/etc in public due to society's pavlovian conditioning, dating back to infancy - "don't do that", "keep yourself under control", "don't shit there it's the middle of the mall". And of course we tend to justify our repressed state in various ways - "well i'm just not good at it", "i don't want to bother anyone", "the janitor isn't getting paid nearly enough for this" Anyways, we've developed scenarios in which the public is invited to release some of this built up tension in a socially acceptable fashion. Dance music has developed a number of widely recognized symbols that say "yo it's okay to dance now! but hey not to creatively. just shake your arse around a bit". In a room full of strangers with diverse tastes, these aural cues tend towards the lowest common denominator - 4x4 kick, boomtish, etc Basically if you want people to dance to idm or other "weird" music, you'd need a room full of idm fans (ie people with closely aligned tastes), or general free spirits who are wont to dance to anything without seeking positive peer feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calx Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Grooves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Also, you can't judge people who just want to dance and have fun because they don't dance to fucking autechre, i mean come on dude, are you really this delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MastaN8 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Giorgio Moroder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Also, you can't judge people who just want to dance and have fun because they don't dance to fucking autechre, i mean come on dude, are you really this delusional. Why are you so moody lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 or do something like this : Its all about learning and gaining experience, trail and error, etc ,etc. Just dont blame the audience, thats bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w6t08EXWDc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 John Ehrlichmann & Cryptowen, these seem to be spot-on descriptions of the current state. Sadly. Even more so, considering this is Germany, which used to be known for its Techno scene. We used to make good techno here. Simply structured techno, but good techno. Not this complete obliviousness that could have been made 30 years ago except then it would be more roughly produced and noisier, contain at least a bit of soul. This stuff last night wasn't so different from what Deer posted, but also omitting the melodic bit, it was just that beat, for ages and ages. I wonder what happened to drive the "pop-culture-taste" in that particular direction. If it was socially accepted in the 90s to jump around to the Techno-Smurfs and that wasn't fucking embarrassing, then what changed? Of course Deer is right, I can't expect people to dance to ... I dunno, Exai or something - Anvil Vapre and that VHS Head track were probably the most extreme ones I had in there. I wouldn't have been able to mix it this easily otherwise anyway. I didn't play freakin Merzbow or anything. Most of it was perfectly danceable, not overly complex, and people did enjoy it. I just wonder, why does it have to be the same thing, stylistically, in order for them to dance? Because they're embarrassed to be associated with something that is a bit different from the 100% safe route? And this wasn't a club of course, this was a private event hosted by a guy from art school, so mostly "free spirits" there. When I really like a track, I have an urge to move around to it. So I only ever dance when the music is good or interesting enough to motivate me to do so. But that rarely happens. I'm not immune to that social phenomenon either, of course. But I see it a bit differently. Like I really don't KNOW how to dance to stuff that I "mildly enjoy" - I would be afraid of looking like a fool then, because I'd be doing something I wouldn't normally do. I don't think I ever had a desire to dance on its own, and seek a club and just kind of "use" whatever music comes on for that purpose. I don't get how so many people are that way. I'm still looking for the compromise between good and danceable. I guess I'm gonna try a Black Dog set next time. If that won't do it, I guess I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Grooves Giorgio Moroder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganus Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I think basically, if you're going to do weird music & higher tempos, you need to work up to it, and switch back to 4/4 120-130 after a while. Whether you like it or not, that's a comfortable and accessable tempo to dance at, and it being easy for people to come in and start dancing til they feel comfortable is important, as people come and go from shows, especially if the artist isn't a big name. Which is why I think a lot of DJs just stay in that comfort zone, but that does get really boring. I think that a good thing to do to avoid the minimal house syndrome is to focus on melodic stuff while in that lower BPM, it's a lot more fun to dance to something like Mr. Fingers or Todd Terje or John Tejada than minimal house anyway. Lots of artists borderlining on IDM territory have songs that work in this BPM too. other than that I would say, from my personal experience of going to shows recently, that it is a bad idea to play future garage/oldschool dubstep more than one song at a time, as it can get really tedious. same goes for juke, footwork, and jungle, but for the opposite reason, as they're so hyperactive it's tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Again, you are blaming the audience for something they are not guilty of. I get that you think your set is great and all and I would probably dance to it but i'm in a forum dedicated to music like that, but other people don't like it (to other people it probably sounds like noise merbozbow) You need to open your mind to genres that work in a dance environment if you want to make people dance. (i hate this aspect od djing, thats why i hate it) You also have to be very talented to mix stuff like that, im not saying you arent but you know. Maybe mix it up a little, have a shitty dance track then progress into the sutff you want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Deer, don't stigmatize me into this die-hard abstract music fan. I like danceable music as well as weird abstract music. I just don't get why there's such a thin line between accepted and not accepted. Maybe I shouldn't have been talking about the tempo or about genres at all in my first post, as it's mostly the general dullness of the accepted tracks that bothers me. Why do they all have to sound the same? Not even a nice melody to go along with a simple beat, that's what bothered me. There was just nothing there, nobody's going to remember a single track that was played there. And don't keep thinking this was a club or a regular party or anything, this was a premiere for some kind of underground film (that wasn't shown in the end because the dudes didn't show up..) to which I was invited by the guy who hosted it after he had heard another mix of mine. Basically he wanted me to do the same thing live, which I did. I told him I was inexperienced with the hardware, but he didn't really care as he invited me specifically because he liked the tracks I selected. I didn't force my weird internet forum geek tracks onto them or anything, the host did thank me afterwards, too. I was the only one who was disappointed there. It's just that I wish I could please both - the chinstrokers AND the ... people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Most of my experience with these shows is that people generally don't really dance for the first few acts; the few times I've played sets later in the night I had more people dancing than when I've played earlier, even with the exact same material. Of course it does come down to being a bit accessible—you gotta butter the audience up with some recognisable stuff before you drop the weird shit. What's unfortunate is that yeah, most people generally don't care about their dance music being melodically rich, just as long as it's bangin' enough to get them to lose their shit on the dancefloor.. which frustrates me because I'm all about the melodic richness haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 So I guess I'll ask them for the last slot next time, when the crowd is already fucked up on heroin and crack. Actually, I didn't want this to turn into such a negative thread. I was pretty happy it all went down so smoothly with the technical bits and that I discovered a new thing I like to do. So there's still loads of time to experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MastaN8 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 People are insecure. Most need time to warm up to the idea of dancing. Was your set early? They probably needed the drinks to hit them. Next time plant your watmm buddy right in the middle of the dance floor with some chemicals in his bloodstream and have him start dancing. People like lemmings will follow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 He does neither chemicals nor dance, unfortunately. Well, maybe I can lure him out when I sneak in a Squarepusher-track. That's the only subforum he lurks around anyway! But yeah, I was the first one last night, actually, and my part ended before midnight. And now that I think about it, most of the art student guys arrived after I got cut off, so there was hardly any chance of many people dancing in the first place. I guess I was painting it blacker than it had to be. I probably felt like I was making an effort in vain since I had been specifically invited, only to see later on that simple tracks were all it took to make everyone happy (except us nerds of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MastaN8 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Wait now... The nerds are the ones who could resist such a tasty setlist like the one you put together. We are the enlightened ones. I've got more taste in my penis than those on that dance floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewps Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I was at a Fuck Buttons concert in Sydney this past week and me and my friend were the only ones dancing!! I had to smash out peoples teeth with my elbows just to get my groove on. What other kind of music will get the unwashed masses dancing if this doesn't!? I don't feel self conscious dancing, I guess I just do it too much to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Wait now... The nerds are the ones who could resist such a tasty setlist like the one you put together. We are the enlightened ones. I've got more taste in my penis than those on that dance floor. We all do. We need to shower more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 there are a ton of factors that play into a live performance/set; type of audience, time playing, the number of people there, previous act styles, etc. etc. I mostly try to work in some wonky leftfield or IDM materials as transfers in between more beat-heavy and club friendly fare. Bridge the gap between styles. Ive seen people freak dance hard to Eutow. I almost always play that in live mixes now. I have found most of the Aphex dance material to be a bit to flat or cheesy for most sets though, much rather throw on some Drexicya or old electro. Remember, the DJ set isn't (or at least shouldn't be) all about you showing off your musical tastes. It should be a hybrid of experiences, the music should be a conduit between experiences of the audience and the DJ. Don't dictate, enjoy. Also, Quoth would fucking devastate I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poblequadrat Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 There's this CJ Bolland mix on youtube which is relatively forward-thinking. It's kind of fast at times and it even features Audax Powder. If you think your audience wouldn't dance even to a very good mix like that one then why worry? Dancefloors are just excuses for doing drugs and one night stands anyway, so if nobody danced it could actually mean they cared about the music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 there are a ton of factors that play into a live performance/set; type of audience, time playing, the number of people there, previous act styles, etc. etc. I mostly try to work in some wonky leftfield or IDM materials as transfers in between more beat-heavy and club friendly fare. Bridge the gap between styles. Ive seen people freak dance hard to Eutow. I almost always play that in live mixes now. I have found most of the Aphex dance material to be a bit to flat or cheesy for most sets though, much rather throw on some Drexicya or old electro. Remember, the DJ set isn't (or at least shouldn't be) all about you showing off your musical tastes. It should be a hybrid of experiences, the music should be a conduit between experiences of the audience and the DJ. Don't dictate, enjoy. Also, Quoth would fucking devastate I would imagine. yeah, all of this, essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.