Nebraska Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 http://freesnowden.is/ i feel bad for this guy, mostly because of his naiivity in trusting that people cared about what he was going to reveal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Ooze Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That's so sad, informer is the best song ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RadarJammer Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 i think someone with his profile would attract rich benefactors. i wouldn't trust a nickel and dime campaign of this nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Don't drink the tea, Edward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 i feel bad for this guy, mostly because of his naiivity in trusting that people cared about what he was going to reveal Well certainly people don't care as much as they should, but the general idea of what he revealed is now part of most people's awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 This whole story brings to mind the Alex Jones/David Icke theories where Hollywood is actively laying the groundwork for future incursion into our lives by governments (and space lizards). After 40 years of paranoid conspiracy thrillers, I think a shocking number of Americans read these revelations, shrug, and say "haven't the NSA been listening to my phone calls since the Carter administration?" Even growing up watching silly shit like The X-Files inured me to this a bit. I don't buy into conspiracy theories, but this all lines up nicely for those who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 i feel bad for this guy, mostly because of his naiivity in trusting that people cared about what he was going to reveal Well certainly people don't care as much as they should, but the general idea of what he revealed is now part of most people's awareness. but wasn't that one of his worst fears? that it would become part of people's awareness and they would do nothing? “The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change.” – Edward Snowden nothing's changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 the Snowden revelations seem to be having a more profound effect on international relations than anything else. The original thread kinda self immolated but a lot of new shit has come to light about the German and Brazillian president both having their phones wire tapped. edit: I think it's too early to tell if 'nothing's changed'. I'm of the belief that Russia putting the brakes on the Syria military strike run-up could have something to do with the United States losing leverage in the world in general, and these NSA revelations showing that the US is actually reading the private emails and listening to private phone calls of a quickly rising number of important world players could result in a form of permanent damage to our credibility possibly far more than what the Bush presidency caused (extreme run-on sentence, sorry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Dudes Yossarian couldn't even save Snowden because he was mortally wounded--his fucking guts were spilling out in the floor from the anti-aircraft fire. And that was like the whole climax of the book? Like, we're all going to be rotting matter like Snowden so live your life and fuck the war! So I don't know what sending Snowden any money would accomplish except to add further absurdity to the entire plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That crazy bastard may be the only sane one left. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 the Snowden revelations seem to be having a more profound effect on international relations than anything else. The original thread kinda self immolated but a lot of new shit has come to light about the German and Brazillian president both having their phones wire tapped. edit: I think it's too early to tell if 'nothing's changed'. I'm of the belief that Russia putting the brakes on the Syria military strike run-up could have something to do with the United States losing leverage in the world in general, and these NSA revelations showing that the US is actually reading the private emails and listening to private phone calls of a quickly rising number of important world players could result in a form of permanent damage to our credibility possibly far more than what the Bush presidency caused (extreme run-on sentence, sorry). Agreed. I think a lot has changed, is changing and will continue to change for plenty of time. Perphaps not some new laws preventing/ stopping this stuff in the short run. (That could take more than 10years) Snowden already deserved his place in the history books, at this point. I ' m sure. What I don't quite understandhowever is Greenwalds idea to start that new news outlet. Just as he was gaining success with his current story combined with efforts of the Guardian, he takes a turn into some direction because he's unhappy with the amount of change he achieved? What? I'd almost think he has some uber narcissistic tendencies and a hunger for power himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Also, as to answer some unasked question as to why things are already changing, I think the following c-span clip speaks volumes ( in the huffpo article....this crappy ipad wont allow me to directly copy the link...): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/29/james-clapper-spying_n_4175703.html Essentially, this is the nsa publically discussing their methodology and admitting what pieces of that are actually being reported to the instances which have a responsibility to watch what they are doing and whether it is within the laws, and what not. Obviously, a lot of stuff isn't reported, seeing that wiretapping a pm of an allied country is not significant enough.... Lol And you see here an on record admittance, which is an historical moment of itself. Therefore: thank you, Snowden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 the Snowden revelations seem to be having a more profound effect on international relations than anything else. The original thread kinda self immolated but a lot of new shit has come to light about the German and Brazillian president both having their phones wire tapped. edit: I think it's too early to tell if 'nothing's changed'. I'm of the belief that Russia putting the brakes on the Syria military strike run-up could have something to do with the United States losing leverage in the world in general, and these NSA revelations showing that the US is actually reading the private emails and listening to private phone calls of a quickly rising number of important world players could result in a form of permanent damage to our credibility possibly far more than what the Bush presidency caused (extreme run-on sentence, sorry). Agreed. I think a lot has changed, is changing and will continue to change for plenty of time. Perphaps not some new laws preventing/ stopping this stuff in the short run. (That could take more than 10years)Snowden already deserved his place in the history books, at this point. I ' m sure. What I don't quite understandhowever is Greenwalds idea to start that new news outlet. Just as he was gaining success with his current story combined with efforts of the Guardian, he takes a turn into some direction because he's unhappy with the amount of change he achieved? What? I'd almost think he has some uber narcissistic tendencies and a hunger for power himself. i'm not thrilled with his decision mostly because I feel that the public has been left in the dark as to exactly why he's doing this at such an arguably crucial time. I'm of the mind that he needs to just release most of it now for transparency sake. However I also understand that his strategy of holding back documents and taking the time to write a thorough article about each individual one in succession so in a way to force the news cycle to keep covering it rather than cycling it out quickly .. i is working quite well. He doesn't strike me as very narcissistic personally, but of course I've always been a fan. His righteous indignation is pretty firmly grounded and i can name several other media personalities (Writers especially) who seem to be coming from a place of ego and narcissism far more than Greenwald. I have a feeling that while the Guardian was brave for doing what they did, they might have in some fashion caved to the pressure of the fallout. I was surprised that one of the Guardian writers is also going with him on this new venture, to me that signals that not only was the funding and opportunity to form some kind of 'dream team' hard to pass up, but maybe he finally hit a wall with the Guardian itself and doesn't want to leave on bad terms. Total speculation on my part. One thing that came to mind when i heard the Ebay founder was funding it was.. is he still a large stockholder of ebay? and if so doesn't ebay own paypal? That seems like a potential conflict of interest (the whole wikileaks donation blockade event which Greenwald railed aggressively against). I'm not one of these people who automatically cries foul about a billionaire being involved simply because he's a filthy rich, just if there is a connection between this guy and paypal, he's got some explaining to do (which he wont do because he's a billionaire and doesn't have to) edit: on a purely anecdotal level , I will say I've been hearing some interesting rumors coming out by proxy of the Russian government about just how important this US backdown of Syria actually is and what it signifies in terms of a huge shift in current world history. The last thing I'll say about it (because I can't provide any proof) is that taking in snowden for asylum and Putin putting the brakes on Syria are not unrelated incidents. my question at this point is what happens to Snowden now? How long can Russia hold on to him before shit starts heating up again. Greenwald has claimed that any nation including Ecuador and Venezuela could have arranged for a flight from russia to their home country. As far as I know they haven't even bothered to invite him to an Embassy. Russia at this point in time is the only country with the balls to actually do it, and how they've actually gotten away with (besides the fact that they have the 2nd largest stockpile of nukes) is as far as the public is concerned mostly a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Atom Dowry Firth Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Dudes Yossarian couldn't even save Snowden because he was mortally wounded--his fucking guts were spilling out in the floor from the anti-aircraft fire. And that was like the whole climax of the book? Like, we're all going to be rotting matter like Snowden so live your life and fuck the war! So I don't know what sending Snowden any money would accomplish except to add further absurdity to the entire plot. Major Major Major Major amounts of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Edward Snowden can shut the fuck up. Fucking pussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimmy McMessageboard Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 What I don't quite understandhowever is Greenwalds idea to start that new news outlet. Just as he was gaining success with his current story combined with efforts of the Guardian, he takes a turn into some direction because he's unhappy with the amount of change he achieved? What? I'd almost think he has some uber narcissistic tendencies and a hunger for power himself. I think he must have felt like he was too restrained by something like the guardian. he went there from salon for the exposure, got it and now he can take the readers off somewhere where he can say whatever he likes. perhaps. if they follow is another question. it's a balance of exposure vs censorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Edward Snowden can shut the fuck up. Fucking pussy. Just curious, but why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Edward Snowden can shut the fuck up. Fucking pussy. Just curious, but why? Umm yeah, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 20XX Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 it's always bigger than you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 that's what she said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 It was the first time in three years that the US president has dropped to second place on the magazine's list and came as US-Russia relations slid to a new low. Putin, who has enjoyed 13 years of dominant rule over Russia, was again elected president in March 2012. Obama, on the other hand, has just emerged scathed from an embarrassing 16-day US government shutdown caused by a budget and debt crisis in Washington. "Putin has solidified his control over Russia, while Obama's lame duck period has seemingly set in earlier than usual for a two-term president -- latest example: the government shutdown mess," wrote Forbes. In August, Russia granted asylum to former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, wanted in the United States over a mammoth intelligence leak. A month later, Putin played the trump card again by averting Obama's threatened missile strikes on Syria with a plan for Damascus to hand over chemical weapons. "Anyone watching this year?s chess match over Syria and NSA leaks has a clear idea of the shifting individual power dynamics," Forbes wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chunky Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 at school there were phone phreakers that ran a zine for phreaking, pretty talented geezers, talked about echelon system for monitoring phone calls, etc westar satellites or some rubbish like that. used to nick papers from telecom exchange's bins. the rumours have been around for a long time. what snowden did was prove the rumours true. gossip is a traditional way to deal with people who try to grab too much power. it doesn't matter what cameras and systems the power grabbers have as long as we have a voice we can gossip gossip gossip away. gossip is a wonderful thing. David Blair became Chief Foreign Correspondent of the Daily Telegraph in November 2011. He previously worked for the paper as Diplomatic Editor, Africa Correspondent and Middle East Correspondent. "So let’s grow up about all this. Of course America spies on France, and France spies on America (and Germany too). It has always been this way; it always will be. And quite right too!" http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/davidblair/100242400/france-is-shocked-shocked-i-tell-you-that-america-would-spy-on-its-allies/ well known on fleet street that telegraph gets exclusive stories/opinions from MI5 usually before other papers. in real life james bond is a boring foreign correspondent. the last few 007 films were pants anyway. hard to get a job at telegraph unless you are catholic. know of at least a few people that had to convert before getting jobs there. Shashank Joshi is an Research Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI). He is also a doctoral student of international relations at Harvard University’s Department of Government. Read more about Shashank here."Europe is abuzz with allegations that the United States has been spying on its allies. Der Spiegel, in a story naturally focusing on Germany, explains that only one group of nations, the so-called Five Eyes group – the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand – is excluded from American espionage efforts. US efforts in Germany are probably less about spying on Germans than on internet traffic that passes through hubs in western and southern Germany – and particularly Frankfurt." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/shashankjoshi/100224247/france-should-remember-its-own-history-beforecomplaining-too-much-about-american-espionage/ when an establishment favourite speaks on the same topic then you're listening to the consensus establishment view. probably had his school fees paid by super rich w(b)ankers. Instead of giving money to snowden we can gossip instead hehe "It is one of the oldest pastimes of the poor and unprivileged to gossip about the rich and powerful ... [and] I would have thought it a small price to pay for being rich, or beautiful, or exceptionally talented, or even famous. If, as a famous person, you are in the habit of doing things which would make you ashamed if they were more widely known, then you have a clear choice between changing your habits, changing your attitude to them or retreating from the public stage. The other course of action is to cross your fingers and hope Nigel Dempster never finds out, but I do not think it reasonable to expect the entire structure of a free press to be dismantled in order to accommodate your foibles." - auberon waugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Give the man a medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertolt Brechtakt Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 i'm not thrilled with his decision mostly because I feel that the public has been left in the dark as to exactly why he's doing this at such an arguably crucial time. I'm of the mind that he needs to just release most of it now for transparency sake. However I also understand that his strategy of holding back documents and taking the time to write a thorough article about each individual one in succession so in a way to force the news cycle to keep covering it rather than cycling it out quickly .. i is working quite well. I think one of the main reason he is doing it step-by-step is also that it's pretty detailed work that has to be done encrypting, checking and proving the documents / content of the documents. Greenwald doesn't want to just boast out all the stuff because it is so sensitive and important. So shocking and terrifying all the same. There is simply no space for any mistake or flaw! He talked about his way of working with the material Snowden provided on a recent BBC interview. The interview is also an interesting piece of media bias (talking about the BBC here): Nonetheless, you are right, that this step-by-step revelation which could probably take up years is a very good strategy to keep the news running on this subject for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertolt Brechtakt Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 i feel bad for this guy, mostly because of his naiivity in trusting that people cared about what he was going to reveal Well certainly people don't care as much as they should, but the general idea of what he revealed is now part of most people's awareness. but wasn't that one of his worst fears? that it would become part of people's awareness and they would do nothing? “The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change.” – Edward Snowden nothing's changed After all, Snowden might have been right: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/31/senate-nsa-oversight-bill-domestic-phone-collection?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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