zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 zeff you're doing just as much speculating as you are accusing others of doing. if i want to assert that racism, sexism, homophobia and all sorts of prejudice are systematic and deeply ingrained into the minds of many decision makers (not all, but many) there is plenty more historical evidence to back me up than there is for those who deny this. to claim that there is no 'fact' in this statement is ludicrous. basically every single social movement that ever happened was a direct response to the things you are claiming do not exist. the burden of proof is on you to show that these things don't exist, beyond simply cherry picking talking points from niche websites that agree with your own personal views. I've literally never once commented on racism or homophobia in this thread, but the fact that you even said that makes it clear that you've painted a picture in your head of me which is exactly the type of picture I tried to dissuade the OP from painting anti-feminists in general as - the picture of an old white bald conservatard who is racist and homophobic. Clearly these are the only types of people who question feminist dogma, right? Wrong Racism exists and some races have been historically more oppressed than others. Homophobia exists historically and right now, clearly. I have never said anything contrary to this But the idea that women in the western world are oppressed in modern times is ludicrous. There is no good evidence to support that this is the case overall. Historically yeah they had fewer legal rights than men, but they also had many privileges men didn't have and this is never, ever addressed. But regardless of that, I don't care about history only the present and its influences on the present, and if the influences of history can be used to interpret observations from the present great, but if observations in the present come up nil then it's time to admit that regardless of a history of your claims being correct. Name a legal right men have that women don't. Give me a list of some examples of male privilege. I've specifically asked this of other people in the thread who confront me but none of them can provide me with the evidence they claim is so obvious and which I am oblivious too. I think it's them who needs to reconsider who is the oblivious one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 the rise of the left-ctrl the decline of caps bloq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 the reason why i brought it up wasn't to accuse you of being racist or homophobic, but if you accept that those things exist, why wouldn't misogyny? because you're a man and you say so? that's basically what i am getting from this. I never said misogyny does not exist, there are lots of conservative Christian morons who think all women belong in the kitchen But the existence of misogyny in the minds of a subset of the general population does not mean women are oppressed. They are not, in fact they are profoundly privileged in many ways in comparison to men, despite also being disadvantaged in some ways by their gender Both genders have privileges that the other lacks, and both have disadvantages the other does not face - and if one gender is oppressed it is definitely not women. The issue I raise is that the privilege of men and the disadvantages of women are the ONLY aspects of gender dynamics that are being addressed by mainstream media as of late. Male disadvantages are rarely acknowledged or given effort, and female privilege is vehemently denied. This is an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 dude i literally cannot believe the level of denial you are at by asserting that absolutely no evidence exists that proves sexism still exists in western culture. like i said, the burden of proof is on you to prove this is the case beyond the speculation you have presented. the fact that you literally just said you don't care about history is the final nail in the coffin for your bullshit. i'm done with this. OH MY GOD. OH MY GOD I never said sexism doesn't exist, I said women are not oppressed by western society as a whole. They are COMPLETELY different things Sexism very clearly exists in BOTH directions and the lack of acknowledgement that sexism against men is just as prevalent as sexism against women is AN ISSUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Also, I think the main example of male privilege is men discussing female equality. Or rather, mansplaining feminism. Or in American politics, men talking/deciding about planned parenthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 the irony of a man asserting that women are not oppressed...jesus christ it's great. you have only confirmed my argument with your insane bullshit. get bent. Reasonable argument there, I love all the excellent facts you've presented /s I haven't confirmed any arguments of yours in fact I've seen no cohesive arguments made by you to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Sexism very clearly exists in BOTH directions and the lack of acknowledgement that sexism against men is just as prevalent as sexism against women is AN ISSUE. Life in the Echo Chamber: A Story in 3 Acts and A Couple Thousand Internet Posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 i guess my thing is i am suspicious of the motives of people who claim to be 'anti feminist' or whatever, also men's rights, 'all lives matter', all that overly simplistic pseudo-equality crap that ignores anything that conflicts with its single minded ideology. it simply ignores the history and reality of how power is distributed and how it is wielded by those that have it. why are you putting your energy into this? so what if you find some feminists annoying. just ignore them. to be so actively against people who are just trying to exercise a degree of social awareness surely must come from a place of hatred and prejudice. it is one thing to criticise absurd behavior of when the SJW stuff goes to far, but an entirely different thing to be proudly and dogmatically anti feminist. you're being just as bad as the people you claim to despise. just go for a walk in the park and chill the fuck out, find a different hobby than mocking people who are ultimately coming from a place of compassion. this isn't aimed at anyone in particularly btw i'm just using 'you' as a placeholder for whoever might fit in with what i'm talking about. as for the rape culture thing zeff that's sort of where i draw the line, it's a little too much for me, but i'm not going to go out of my way to fight it or deny that plenty of people do not take it seriously. many of the people that are very vocal about anti-rape stuff have been or know someone close to them that has experienced some form of awful sexual violence, i can imagine that would make people feel very strongly about it. But I think you'll notice, if you look, that the vast majority of these people are NOT coming from a place of compassion. They've just noticed that if they fit the demographic of an oppressed minority(whether or not the issues actually affect them), they can take advantage of gullible peoples' protective instincts and paint themselves as more knowledgeable of the ways of the world. "I'm so real, I've experienced hardship". And no one else has actual experience on these matters because of the way they look. Meanwhile the adults look on and roll their eyes, wondering how they will deal with actual problems once their parents stop wiping their asses for them. Pretty much. Modern intellectualism = being outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Is there also an alt-wrong culture btw? I think we might have invented it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Also, I think the main example of male privilege is men discussing female equality. Or rather, mansplaining feminism. Or in American politics, men talking/deciding about planned parenthood. Yes, freedom of speech is definitely a privilege men have which women don't And did you seriously use the word "mansplaining" I'm literally just asking for evidence, please give me it. I would love to be proven wrong on this, honestly I would. I'd love to be conclusively shown how I've been delusional all along, but the evidence just isn't being provided. Nope I'm definitely just "mansplaining" and am delusional! And the fact that I'm even discussing the issue proves your point, somehow...! Yeah okay I believe you now This is why I can't take feminists seriously, what the fuck kind of a discussion is this? "I don't have evidence for you, the fact that you don't see it proves you're blinded by your privilege" fucking LOL oh my god why have I even bothered posting in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Whats wrong with the word mansplaining? I think it's a pretty succinct way for women to describe their experience of men explaining stuff to them. You think their experience should be based on facts and stats in order to use that word? I really don't understand why your boxers are in such a twist. You might explode if I start talking about the male gaze, I'm guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Also, sorry JE for this derailment. I tried to be on topic. But zeff is on fire today, and I just can't stop myself from riding this wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 you haven't presented any yourself. you just keep claiming to know them. Being enslaved to perform manual labor is oppression Having minimal legal rights is oppression Being the primary victims of violence is oppression Lacking freedom of speech is oppression Being neglected by a society trivially capable of caring for you is oppression Spending $8 billion per year on makeup is not oppression Being 10x less likely to be homeless than men is not oppression Being 10x less likely to die than men while performing your job is not oppression Spending less hours working than men on average is not oppression Earning the majority of university degrees per year is not oppression Having a criminal court system giving you shorter sentences for the same crime as men is not oppression Having a family court system biased in your favor regarding child custody and alimony is not oppression Having all legal rights that the opposite gender has and more is not oppression Having the majority of healthcare funding spent on you nationwide is not oppression Honestly how much fucking cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics must one do to convince themselves that women are oppressed in the west? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I actually think Zeff makes some valid points as it pertains to Western society and gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hello spiral Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Zeff is the guy that honestly believed women stole men's cumrags from the trash in order to get pregnant and legally enslave the man right? That wasn't a dream was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Oh the plight of the first world white male, when oh when will the opression end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Zeff is the guy that honestly believed women stole men's cumrags from the trash in order to get pregnant and legally enslave the man right? That wasn't a dream was it? http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7024930/ns/health-sexual_health/t/sperm-gift-keeps-giving/#.VkBYwLerSUl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hello spiral Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I was right, it's where the alco quote in Usagi's sig comes from: Alcofribas, on 17 Apr 2013 - 12:45 PM, said: afaik i usually place all my cum drops on scientifically sterilized glass slides which are carefully frozen and placed in trash cans throughout the city labelled "for women <3 alco" with my social security and phone numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Oh the plight of the first world white male, when oh when will the opression end Claiming women aren't oppressed doesn't mean I'm claiming men are oppressed, but nice straw man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hello spiral Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 flol, thanks for confirming that you're that guy *jots down 'Zeff=OG jev'* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I'm actually waiting for JE to summarise the past posts and to have his view on where to take this next. Perhaps renaming this thread to "Another heated debate with the Zeff on womens rights and female equality"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 flol, thanks for confirming that you're that guy *jots down 'Zeff=OG jev'* Thanks for confirming you're a heartless asshole for not being sympathetic to the guy this actually happened to, but with the sperm being in her mouth not the garbage can. But nothing is legally preventing the garbage can variant of this from happening as well which is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 For how long does a dry spell have to last for it to be considered oppression? Open debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Such an excellent discussion, I know I can always count on you WATMM to make no substantial rebuttals of any arguments and instead say "Hurr sperm in gerbij can LOLLOL mansplaining haha", absolutely excellent. I'm simply pointing out that women are not oppressed and you've somehow turned this into some situation where I'm claiming men are oppressed which I haven't It would be great if you could avoid blatantly misrepresenting the statements of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Anyone coined the term MGTOW in this thread yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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