squarepusher So whats next?

[Guest hahathhat]

no, clitterhaus is just dumb and furious about it.

[Guest Pete is your friend]

I dont think this is about user friendly music at all. Maybe its got something to do with the amount of copycat problems theses styles have had. The old generic saying still stands, thats what it has become. They are on a quest to try and follow directions that others are not. I mean JAS, yeah there are elements there that anyone can do, but have u heard anything that sound exactly like it? I had a horrible feeling he fell into warps trap and started make indie style music, but i can see this just isnt the case. pusher has done what he has always said, to follow his own path.

 

Analord is a great example,we know it was a direct effort to stick the finger up at all his recent digital master pieces that were being copyied left right and centre, and no one was aiming techno music directly at the gear that was being used, u had certain movements, such the echcospace works or basic channel style tracks but not everyone in the electronica scene were following that too much at the time. That was richs nice little area/niche that wasnt being used in the scene and did it. But u could see it was going to be copyied a mile off.

 

Something i would love to hear is Tom making more stuff like 'do you know squarepher', that track is so different to alot of his other drill type stuff but still in the style.

 

like myself and im sure others, u get bored of working on a computer screen, u spent about 4 years or something using computers and that just gets boring, and rich and tom have obviously had the same issues, they wanted to get 'physical' again. But i have no doubt that they might get the bug for software and digital fuckery again.

 

Yeah rich has got a kid and wife or whatever but it has been clearly documented that he loves music and will always make it, he will surely get some kind of urge to let people hear it, i couldnt see the point keeping it locked away forever, it would seem like wasted talent.

 

 

 

 

Aphex and pusher will always be live performers to me.... they're studio shit automatically looses something .. a staticness trapped by production

 

 

If i want banging aphex i reach for his dj-sets. If i want hardcore pusher .. any live set from 1996->present will do me.

 

whats next?

 

More gigs!

 

and i dont think aphex has done a live gig in over a decade.

 

[Dr Clitterhaus]

no, clitterhaus is just dumb and furious about it.

You are one hell of a nerd. 100% nerd.

 

And not in a good way.

[Guest moo duck]

music is not about virtuosity. can't you see that constant "complex programming" to breakbeat is the same old thing that marked stagnation of jazz or rock? or, being complete pretentious, serialism in post-war avantgarde situation, with fear of any repetition and absurd need for super-complexity, point where minimalism as the direct opposite was created.

futher, there are not only Snares who did fast beats with micro-edits, see Xanopticon album, other breakcore maniacs, it has gone much more speed-oriented. there is nothing outer-limit on technical side either, it's just not the field of interest for those who have knowledge how to do. it is really pain in the ass to repeat this kind of method once you have achieved all you wanted to say by it.

ideas are not relevant to the count of events going on simultaneously. after all, your taste is not universal.

[acid1]

JAS was plenty IDM, most of you guys are just too stupid to know where to look for it.

 

Unless its pitch shifted/time stretched amens, the IDM majority isn't going to take notice to anything.

[Guest hahathhat]

np: vsnares -- flashforward

[karmakramer]

JAS was plenty IDM, most of you guys are just too stupid to know where to look for it.

 

Unless its pitch shifted/time stretched amens, the IDM majority isn't going to take notice to anything.

 

So true... JAS was a fucking amazing album. As long as you don't take it too seriously and have fun with it... it will provide so much enjoyment, I can't describe. From the crazy electro synth pop space songs, to the bangin heavy rock anthems, and finally back to the beginning, acoustic, no electronics.... just tom doing what he does best. Playing the bass.

 

Overall I thought it was one of the best albums of the year.

[Guest hahathhat]

yeah, JAS is pretty mental, the tempo changes do my hed in....

[karmakramer]

yeah, JAS is pretty mental, the tempo changes do my hed in....

 

Yeah how crazy is the glass road!? And who in the fuck other then Tom Jenkinson can make that song?

[Guest hahathhat]

yeah, i put the album on because this thread put it on my mind!! delta-v ripping it now

 

 

anyways, to address the point brought up in this thread, JAS is amazing, but it's not the same thing as go plastic. aggro jungle vs. glossy trippy super nintendo mario cart i dunno.

[pissflaps]

yeah, i put the album on because this thread put it on my mind!! delta-v ripping it now

 

 

anyways, to address the point brought up in this thread, JAS is amazing, but it's not the same thing as go plastic. aggro jungle vs. glossy trippy super nintendo mario cart i dunno.

 

Exactly, and even if JAS was good, agro jungle > glossy trippy super nintendo mario cart. Is just more exciting and fun.

 

The point is, no one is near Squarepusher level, so we depend only on him for more music like that, or just play the same records over and over... *sadface*. I hope Squarepusher has a kid or something to continue the legacy, because I doubt anyone out there has the talent to program such wicked shit.

[Guest Pete is your friend]

[Guest thec]

I just want another I care because you do :(

[Guest Dirty Protest]

Really all you got to look forwards to is alzheimers then.

[Guest hahathhat]

The point is, no one is near Squarepusher level, so we depend only on him for more music like that, or just play the same records over and over... *sadface*. I hope Squarepusher has a kid or something to continue the legacy, because I doubt anyone out there has the talent to program such wicked shit.

 

perhaps your only hope is an upwardly spiraling rate of information flow. this will be rambly load of sloppy futurism... for no reason other than it's fun to try and think this stuff through, then organize it into language. here we go...

 

 

it occurred to me that, over the course of human history, the amount of STUFF people to deal with (mentally) increases and increases and increases as we've moved along. the amount of information going through my skull daily may be a hundred times what it was a hundred years ago. i've always wondered if there was some sort of limit to this (johnny mnemonic touched on it i guess with "NAS", but not to my satisfaction).

 

this sort of music is impossible (practically speaking) without technology. technology that was just starting to become available to the masses when a few dedicated geniuses decided to take this new, largely unexplored medium to the highest level they could in some way, any way (i.e. aggro jungle).

 

afx has mentioned having a blast on his zx spectrum, but unlikely he had much access to the nascent internet of the time (BBS not counted). squarepusher's never spoken of it in anything i recall reading, but i think there's an atari st on the singles vinyl for hello everything, and i wager his experience was similar. back then, a 15-year old might spend his weekends figuring out an atari.

 

for my generation, computers are toasters, the internet an extension of the brain. yeah, many kids had computers as they came of age in the 80s, but they were very unfriendly and limited (not the scope so much as the amount of effort required limited what was practical). today, computers are much more common. much more omnipresent, and woven into daily life. we have an unprecedented access to information. our computers can also simulate hardware for us (allegedly, ok), lowering the cost of entry, and do a lot more at once.

 

so, as far as tech, information, knowledge -- people in their teens and 20s vacuum it up at an astounding rate these days. borders on addiction. i think the red hot chili peppers mentioned something about the teenage bride with the baby inside getting high on information... and, didn't Leary say internet was the LSD of the 90s?

 

all this sets up my core point: if squarepusher were just starting now, he might very well improve twice as fast, simply because of increased information sharing/access, trading of ideas, easier exposure to new music. i can go on the net, download most any song, then listen to it as i read detailed history of the artists their lives, and philosophies. i can find lots of forums discussing tech and technique. i'm sure there were resources of this nature when squarepusher got rolling (rolling squares? maybe, "when squarepusher got tripping"?), they just weren't as accessible or in-depth.

 

this is a long-winded way of saying that if musicians keep writing aggro jungle, and peoples' rate of musical development keeps accelerating, you'll probably get your next level of aggro jungle SOMEDAY. maybe sooner than you think...

[karmakramer]

The point is, no one is near Squarepusher level, so we depend only on him for more music like that, or just play the same records over and over... *sadface*. I hope Squarepusher has a kid or something to continue the legacy, because I doubt anyone out there has the talent to program such wicked shit.

 

perhaps your only hope is an upwardly spiraling rate of information flow. this will be rambly load of sloppy futurism... for no reason other than it's fun to try and think this stuff through, then organize it into language. here we go...

 

 

it occurred to me that, over the course of human history, the amount of STUFF people to deal with (mentally) increases and increases and increases as we've moved along. the amount of information going through my skull daily may be a hundred times what it was a hundred years ago. i've always wondered if there was some sort of limit to this (johnny mnemonic touched on it i guess with "NAS", but not to my satisfaction).

 

this sort of music is impossible (practically speaking) without technology. technology that was just starting to become available to the masses when a few dedicated geniuses decided to take this new, largely unexplored medium to the highest level they could in some way, any way (i.e. aggro jungle).

 

afx has mentioned having a blast on his zx spectrum, but unlikely he had much access to the nascent internet of the time (BBS not counted). squarepusher's never spoken of it in anything i recall reading, but i think there's an atari st on the singles vinyl for hello everything, and i wager his experience was similar. back then, a 15-year old might spend his weekends figuring out an atari.

 

for my generation, computers are toasters, the internet an extension of the brain. yeah, many kids had computers as they came of age in the 80s, but they were very unfriendly and limited (not the scope so much as the amount of effort required limited what was practical). today, computers are much more common. much more omnipresent, and woven into daily life. we have an unprecedented access to information. our computers can also simulate hardware for us (allegedly, ok), lowering the cost of entry, and do a lot more at once.

 

so, as far as tech, information, knowledge -- people in their teens and 20s vacuum it up at an astounding rate these days. borders on addiction. i think the red hot chili peppers mentioned something about the teenage bride with the baby inside getting high on information... and, didn't Leary say internet was the LSD of the 90s?

 

all this sets up my core point: if squarepusher were just starting now, he might very well improve twice as fast, simply because of increased information sharing/access, trading of ideas, easier exposure to new music. i can go on the net, download most any song, then listen to it as i read detailed history of the artists their lives, and philosophies. i can find lots of forums discussing tech and technique. i'm sure there were resources of this nature when squarepusher got rolling (rolling squares? maybe, "when squarepusher got tripping"?), they just weren't as accessible or in-depth.

 

this is a long-winded way of saying that if musicians keep writing aggro jungle, and peoples' rate of musical development keeps accelerating, you'll probably get your next level of aggro jungle SOMEDAY. maybe sooner than you think...

 

Excellent post. The question becomes though if the talent found in Tom and Rich, can be accessed by knowledge and understanding. I would argue the musical journey they both took, gave them insight beyond just techno trash, but a deeper understanding of the progression of technology and the future of sound.

 

[Guest hahathhat]

for that question, i refer you to another post i wrote:

 

http://forum.watmm.com/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=945159

 

edit: though, point taken, you can't repeat someone else's journey. different times will yield different moods/themes...

[pissflaps]

afx has mentioned having a blast on his zx spectrum, but unlikely he had much access to the nascent internet of the time (BBS not counted). squarepusher's never spoken of it in anything i recall reading, but i think there's an atari st on the singles vinyl for hello everything, and i wager his experience was similar. back then, a 15-year old might spend his weekends figuring out an atari.

 

You have a point there, about the whole "more information on the brain nowadays", the internet, etc, but the ironic (and sad) thing is that kids seem to become dumber proportionally to the increase of available technology. I mean, if you make a poll, 9 from 10 kids going from ages 15 to 18 would use a computer for AIM, myspace, etc. My point is, even if technology becomes more and more available, it doesn't mean such technology is going to be exploited in more interesting ways than camwhoring around. Its still extremely unusual than some kid would decide to make music that has nothing to do with the current trend, let alone the music we are talking about. Thing is, a kid, and even a person on his entire life, is hardly going to develop a taste to enjoy and comprehend whats going on on such extremely technical and "weird" sound/music, let alone start creating pieces near that level.

 

this is a long-winded way of saying that if musicians keep writing aggro jungle, and peoples' rate of musical development keeps accelerating, you'll probably get your next level of aggro jungle SOMEDAY. maybe sooner than you think...

 

Thats nice to think, but I still doubt it, even less anytime soon... first you have to get there, then try to go beyond. And I know no one who has got near it. I mean:

 

np: vsnares -- flashforward

 

That thing was released in 2008, its a nice track and all, yet it sounds so "blocky/simple" compared to the stuff mr Pusher pulled off on GP/Ultravisitor. We need new blood on the game, VS is done. (or again, Tom and Aphex kids)

[Guest hahathhat]

afx has mentioned having a blast on his zx spectrum, but unlikely he had much access to the nascent internet of the time (BBS not counted). squarepusher's never spoken of it in anything i recall reading, but i think there's an atari st on the singles vinyl for hello everything, and i wager his experience was similar. back then, a 15-year old might spend his weekends figuring out an atari.

 

You have a point there, about the whole "more information on the brain nowadays", the internet, etc, but the ironic (and sad) thing is that kids seem to become dumber proportionally to the increase of available technology. I mean, if you make a poll, 9 from 10 kids going from ages 15 to 18 would use a computer for AIM, myspace, etc. My point is, even if technology becomes more and more available, it doesn't mean such technology is going to be exploited in more interesting ways than camwhoring around. Its still extremely unusual than some kid would decide to make music that has nothing to do with the current trend, let alone the music we are talking about. Thing is, a kid, and even a person on his entire life, is hardly going to develop a taste to enjoy and comprehend whats going on on such extremely technical and "weird" sound/music, let alone start creating pieces near that level.

 

i don't quite see it as flatly as that. the internet is practically an extension of my memory, at this point -- i had a weird moment of zen one day when i realized that, instead of remembering facts/quotes themselves, often i remembered where they were located on the internet. for, say, an interview, i won't remember a quote word for word -- just a vague summary -- but i will remember precisely what words i put into google to find the article in the first place, and how to locate the relevant quote in the interview. then, on a board like this, instead of saying, "i think squarepusher said something like..." i just run through the dance required to call up the exact quote and paste it in. my memory functions as a summary/index, google acting as part of my brain.

 

if you met me on the street, however, i'd be fucked. i'd be like, uh, if you google for this and click the third result, scroll 3/4 down... this doesn't make me dumb, just disconnected from part of my memory.

 

however, yes, it has made SOME people dumber... and i pin that squarely on laziness, and current society's blase reaction to cheating. kids just copy stuff off the internet for the book reports instead of writing it themselves. they do this out of laziness... but the real blame is on the teachers, mentors, parents. the kids don't know any better. cheating used to be looked at much more harshly, now harvard inflates their students' grades so they don't look bad!! the adults cheat, so they have no basis to tell the kids not to.

 

however, i don't see lazy cheaters making serious inroads on music. i was keeping my blinders squarely on (wo)men of character. for people that want to be neck-deep in information and ideas, the resources are there more than ever before.

[Guest hahathhat]

just occurred to me that i should look into what happened when public/free libraries started to become more common. it's a good parallel to what the internet is doing.... i am, of course, going to use the internet to read up on this... :)

[Guest David R James]

obviously no-one lives in a vacuum...

 

Yeah it really isnt possible to be completely cutoff from any form of musical inspiration, and anyone who says they are not influenced by some form of music cant really say that, not even squarepusher.

 

Its like the breakcore stuff that has just come out on the ep, its almost a direct copy of whats happened in the scene over the last 5 years, i find that completely un-original.

 

The best way to channel the inspirations is to find as many as possible then using little bits of each. JAS and Number lucent kinda has that feel, uve got rock, jazz, drum and bass, electronic music all together and i think thats how u can work with the musical influences u hear around u.

 

For me at the moment i have a love for deep house, dub techno, old school synth bands and radiophonics 60's sound effects and by taking all theses influences and putting little pieces of each in the pot it becomes something new.

[pissflaps]

however, yes, it has made SOME people dumber... and i pin that squarely on laziness, and current society's blase reaction to cheating. kids just copy stuff off the internet for the book reports instead of writing it themselves. they do this out of laziness... but the real blame is on the teachers, mentors, parents. the kids don't know any better. cheating used to be looked at much more harshly, now harvard inflates their students' grades so they don't look bad!! the adults cheat, so they have no basis to tell the kids not to.

 

however, i don't see lazy cheaters making serious inroads on music. i was keeping my blinders squarely on (wo)men of character. for people that want to be neck-deep in information and ideas, the resources are there more than ever before.

 

I think that the fact of someone using the internet to cheat at school doesn't apply much to the point. I infact, think that "lazy cheaters" can make great music. I don't think Richard was really into school or getting great marks. I remember reading some interview where he would bring some walkman at classroom and just listen to tunes and also to his own tracks and thinking if he had to change something or whatever.

 

The point is that kids will not get out of the "mainstream" influences to create the music we are talking about, and to get someone like Richard or Tom, besides having that "natural talent" (whatever that really is), you need to have been doing it for years, so when you are on your 30ish you've already experimented with a lot of stuff, then albums like GP/Ultravisitor/Drukqs get done.

[Guest hahathhat]

however, yes, it has made SOME people dumber... and i pin that squarely on laziness, and current society's blase reaction to cheating. kids just copy stuff off the internet for the book reports instead of writing it themselves. they do this out of laziness... but the real blame is on the teachers, mentors, parents. the kids don't know any better. cheating used to be looked at much more harshly, now harvard inflates their students' grades so they don't look bad!! the adults cheat, so they have no basis to tell the kids not to.

 

however, i don't see lazy cheaters making serious inroads on music. i was keeping my blinders squarely on (wo)men of character. for people that want to be neck-deep in information and ideas, the resources are there more than ever before.

 

I think that the fact of someone using the internet to cheat at school doesn't apply much to the point. I infact, think that "lazy cheaters" can make great music. I don't think Richard was really into school or getting great marks. I remember reading some interview where he would bring some walkman at classroom and just listen to tunes and also to his own tracks and thinking if he had to change something or whatever.

 

The point is that kids will not get out of the "mainstream" influences to create the music we are talking about, and to get someone like Richard or Tom, besides having that "natural talent" (whatever that really is), you need to have been doing it for years, so when you are on your 30ish you've already experimented with a lot of stuff, then albums like GP/Ultravisitor/Drukqs get done.

 

haaa, i actually thought of richard as i wrote the phrase "lazy cheaters"

 

you've already nailed the reason i shrugged that off, though. there's a difference between bringing a walkman to class and simply sleeping through class instead. these guys work tirelessly -- compulsively -- on music. this is not lazy, this is focusing on what matters to them and letting everything else in their life atrophy.

 

possibly excepting a very experienced drummer that gets into midi triggers and max/msp -- does that sort of experience translate?? i'm curious -- i agree that you need to work on electronic music for years to get to that level. however, i still don't share your pessimism regarding peoples' tastes. yet...

 

finally -- a decade ago, would we even have had this debate? we'd be in seperate corners of the world... even if the number of people doing drill/jungle doesn't increase, their level of interconnectedness does. this, i think, was what i was swinging at when i spoke of the effect of the internet beforehand.

[Mr.Sensi]

So much to say...

[pissflaps]

possibly excepting a very experienced drummer that gets into midi triggers and max/msp -- does that sort of experience translate?? i'm curious -- i agree that you need to work on electronic music for years to get to that level. however, i still don't share your pessimism regarding peoples' tastes. yet...

 

I don't think that would translate much, tbh. And from my experience, yes, people tastes is just depressing overally (as someone who is not into electronic music). I've tried to introduce your "average Joe" to some of the most friendly aphex and squarepusher works and the result is always the one you can imagine.