Your art of producing

[tokn]

Hey,

 

I'm wondering how you're producing electronic music - and I'm not talking about your gear or software.

 

One very important thing about composing and building tracks is developing a structure, I think. Often I've got a few bars full of nice sounds and beats, but stretching it over a long period with lots of variations and natural developments is quite hard. So I want to know, how you're inventing new melodies, how you edit, use and modify them and finally build a complete track from a more philosophical point of view. What's your art of producing?

 

Furthermore I think it could be quite interesting if you describe your mind-set as well, if you're mostly producing by night, drinking lots of coffee, smoking a joint, whatever...

 

Of course you can't generalize it always, but I hope you get my point.

[chim]

I don't like forcing myself to produce, I generally do it whenever I feel like. I generally am very impatient with my works, and tend to export it long before it's ready. I'm countering that by really working with the tracks, but right now I get problems with staying with a single track, and memory issues since my computer sucks. And when you realize how perfect a track could be, there's really no end to refining a piece of music.

 

I have difficulty defining myself as a musician, because I feel I'm just trying alot. I'm nowhere near the kind of tracks I envision myself making.

But no track is a mistake. I just try making it as fun as possible.

 

. Often I've got a few bars full of nice sounds and beats, but stretching it over a long period with lots of variations and natural developments is quite hard.

 

this is quite common. experience cures it, pretty much.

 

the key to bringing lots of tiny variation or edits in a track is working with very short pieces at a time. So if you have an 8 bar drum loop, treat every 1 bar as you would treat the 8 bar.

 

I think the key to making an 8 bar musical loop evolve to a 4 minute track is musical knowledge and an understanding of the keys. If you listened to this 8 bar loop, where would it come from, how would it evolve into this beat, and what should happen next. Sometimes making something completely different to juxtapose it works better than expected.

 

I generally try my best to avoid the verse-chorus style of construction. I generally lose interest after the first chorus, so i like it when its something very different.

Tension and release is important in making engaging passages. But that tension and release can be created in anything in the track, from over a few dozen milliseconds to over 10 minutes.

 

The whole process of creating a track isn't necessarily hard work. It's just the patience allowing you to play around, making a million mistakes until something good comes up.

 

I think it's like, I start with making a melody of some sort, then the rest is a blur until I have a few minutes of music, and then a lot of detail work starts.

 

So I think making music is about having good ears, and imagination. Really listening to what you are making, and then realizing how it should sound, and refining it into that as far as possible.

[posture]

I don't like forcing myself to produce, I generally do it whenever I feel like. I generally am very impatient with my works, and tend to export it long before it's ready. I'm countering that by really working with the tracks, but right now I get problems with staying with a single track, and memory issues since my computer sucks. And when you realize how perfect a track could be, there's really no end to refining a piece of music.

 

I have difficulty defining myself as a musician, because I feel I'm just trying alot. I'm nowhere near the kind of tracks I envision myself making.

But no track is a mistake. I just try making it as fun as possible.

 

. Often I've got a few bars full of nice sounds and beats, but stretching it over a long period with lots of variations and natural developments is quite hard.

 

this is quite common. experience cures it, pretty much.

 

the key to bringing lots of tiny variation or edits in a track is working with very short pieces at a time. So if you have an 8 bar drum loop, treat every 1 bar as you would treat the 8 bar.

 

I think the key to making an 8 bar musical loop evolve to a 4 minute track is musical knowledge and an understanding of the keys. If you listened to this 8 bar loop, where would it come from, how would it evolve into this beat, and what should happen next. Sometimes making something completely different to juxtapose it works better than expected.

 

I generally try my best to avoid the verse-chorus style of construction. I generally lose interest after the first chorus, so i like it when its something very different.

Tension and release is important in making engaging passages. But that tension and release can be created in anything in the track, from over a few dozen milliseconds to over 10 minutes.

 

The whole process of creating a track isn't necessarily hard work. It's just the patience allowing you to play around, making a million mistakes until something good comes up.

 

I think it's like, I start with making a melody of some sort, then the rest is a blur until I have a few minutes of music, and then a lot of detail work starts.

 

So I think making music is about having good ears, and imagination. Really listening to what you are making, and then realizing how it should sound, and refining it into that as far as possible.

 

Great post, and helpful.

[Guest ezkerraldean]

i tend to write tracks when i'm bored or have nothing else to do. i'll also, if i'm a bit stuck, skim through a bunch of tracks while making my own, for ideas. and quite often i'll attempt to write a track, give up on it, and come back to it months later when i've had new ideas. or even take two such given-up-on tracks and bolt them together to make one decent one.

 

i like to span genres in a single track too. if you've made yourself a decent melody but are finding the track repetitive, wang a dub breakdown or a little jungle exceursion in, using the same melody. or do the opposite and put a bridge melody in while keeping the beat.

 

also use loops and samples from as many sources as possible, don't just write the entire thing completely within a single program. i'm really not one for all this VST plugin malarky, get your hands dirty with loops made from the sound of plates smashing on your floor recorded onto cassette and stuff...

[kcinsu]

I listen to my pieces constantly... when I'm done working for the night, Ill often bounce my idea... put it on my ipod, and listen to it elsewhere. I start filling in parts in my head, or think of where Id like it to go from there.

 

I spend very long amounts of time working on tracks... and often many at once, so I'm constantly going between projects, applying ideas I may have stumbled upon in a different track that didnt fit that one, but works great somewhere else.

 

I also like a lot of structure. Often I'll pull a small musical idea, and expand it on a macro scale. Say you have a melody that goes C D A Bb... or at least those are your main notes in the melody... or chord progression... whatever... Ill then try expanding that into a structure.... try making the first part of the song in the key of C, the next section in the key of D, A, Bb and so on... almost a fractal kind of idea... structures repeating on several levels. Not because it is glaringly obvious... but because it gives you an option to try something that you might not have come up with just playing or sketching. There was a music theorist, named Shankar (probably wrong spelling) and he developed a system called Shankarian Analysis, and pretty much takes what I just said, to the extreme... finding patterns and structure on harmonic, melodic, and structural levels. I was always very interested in the kind of approach.

 

Also... I think a lot of the craft of music, is changes over time. How do you get from one place to another... on every level. On an obvious level, having 2 sections of a song, and finding a sensical way to bridge the ideas.... a transition that unites them. Or it could be just adding a drum fill in the right spot... just "how do I go from idea 1, to idea 2, in the best way?" Thats the part that interests me most in my music... connecting things.

 

So then, say you take the first approach.... make a 4 different sections one in C, one in D, one it A, one in Bb. Now, the whole NEW challenge, is how to do I go from each key/section and make it sound like it was MEANT to go there in the first place.

 

Just a few ideas there...

[Bubba69]

i focus on the aspect of music that is fascinating me at the time. Right now, that aspect is mixing with compression. But for a long time it was beats, song structure, and most of all, melodic developement. Now that I have those squared away, I'm finally getting close to having total satisfaction in my music(not quite there actually). okay, I oversimplified this post, but I've got to go, talk more later~!

[kcinsu]

Schenkerian Analysis

[acid1]

My methods are always changing...

 

Best results is usually whenever and however I can entertain myself musically.

 

Using theory helps occasionally when you get stuck in a bind.

 

Probably a shit answer, maybe I'll elaborate more later.

[Guest iamabe]

I'm so new to this shit, I'm still just emulating everyone I like. The last thing I did was make an autechre loop and then spent hours making a BOC whistle sound with a short melody. It sounded good in loop,so I sat and recorded a take of me just jamming the melody and variations of it, instead of pasting the loop and adding variation manually in midi like I usually do. That was my only real improvement over the previous track I made. Playing in real time instead of cutting and pasting. Thats usually how I get better. Repeat the same formula and try one new thing.

 

This advice about "dont use just one vst" and use samples from as many places as you can is great, but I get overwhelmed quickly if I worry about making lots of improvements or trying lots of new things, or thinking about what's inmy track and how diverse it is, instead of just enjoying composing.

 

I get to the saturation point pretty quickly. I can work on a track for two days tops before I hit a wall. I also suffer from chronic listening to my own tracks over and over again.

 

I'm impressed with people who can make little bits of music each night and then assemble them into a song later on. I find that hard.

 

As for mind-set.. I like RDJ's method of working a shitty day job and feeling a rush to go home and make music. But I get pretty burnt out after work. To get anthing done I usually have to wake up and spend all day working.

[Guest chax]

this is a great thread. what i usually do is kind of strange but continue to svae multiple versions of everything. like totally fuck it up in max/msp then reload the original and combine the two, etc.

 

this is a great blog for producing tips: http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/

 

more specifically: http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/2009/08/core-points-of-arrangement/ and http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/2009/08/if-michelangelo-were-a-beatsmith/

[Bubba69]

I'm so new to this shit, I'm still just emulating everyone I like. The last thing I did was make an autechre loop and then spent hours making a BOC whistle sound with a short melody. It sounded good in loop,so I sat and recorded a take of me just jamming the melody and variations of it, instead of pasting the loop and adding variation manually in midi like I usually do. That was my only real improvement over the previous track I made. Playing in real time instead of cutting and pasting. Thats usually how I get better. Repeat the same formula and try one new thing.

 

This advice about "dont use just one vst" and use samples from as many places as you can is great, but I get overwhelmed quickly if I worry about making lots of improvements or trying lots of new things, or thinking about what's inmy track and how diverse it is, instead of just enjoying composing.

 

I get to the saturation point pretty quickly. I can work on a track for two days tops before I hit a wall. I also suffer from chronic listening to my own tracks over and over again.

 

I'm impressed with people who can make little bits of music each night and then assemble them into a song later on. I find that hard.

 

As for mind-set.. I like RDJ's method of working a shitty day job and feeling a rush to go home and make music. But I get pretty burnt out after work. To get anthing done I usually have to wake up and spend all day working.

 

That was my philosophy for a really long time. And it works! As of the past 6 months, I've become more of a perfectionist, which I actually really enjoy. I've gone back to tracks that are 3 years old, remixed them, and they are now some of my favorite tracks, yet again! I add new elements that I wouldn't have put in there before, and most of all, my style of mixing is drastically better. I can make my old shitily mixed but otherwise interesting track sound really good just by changing around the reverb sends(if that is what it needs), and most of all changing the track levels and EQing and compressing things more artfully, not smashing things together into a limiter like a neandertal(my old method).

[Guest iamabe]

this is a great thread. what i usually do is kind of strange but continue to svae multiple versions of everything. like totally fuck it up in max/msp then reload the original and combine the two, etc.

 

this is a great blog for producing tips: http://www.electronicmusing.com/blog/

 

more specifically: http://www.electroni...of-arrangement/ and http://www.electroni...re-a-beatsmith/

 

excellent blog!

[Guest Wall Bird]

Someone once told me that the masters are the ones who can perform alchemy. They can start with any amount of material, no matter how banal or apparently useless, and transform it into something completely new and exciting. Therefore, I think that focusing on your variation technique is immensely helpful when it comes to making constantly engaging music. Beethoven was a master at this. Just listen to his 5th symphony. It's made almost entirely out of the opening four note motif, which only contains two different pitches. Just listen to the ways in which he morphs such a small amount of material in the first minute alone. It's astounding. His Grosse Fugue is the exact same way, though it's not as easily apparent. For one other great example, listen to Maurice Ravel's "String Quartet in F Major". He has the advantage of starting with a simply gorgeous melody and only going higher from there.

 

Conversely, someone like Mozart was so damn brilliant that instead of relying on variation he could just create a completely unrelated melody whenever he wanted to go somewhere else and it would work perfectly. I actually find myself writing through-composed works instead of repeating sections because I always imagine that the listener would be bored to hear it repeated and that if they wanted to hear it again they could simply start the song over. I generally prefer music that goes places and never comes back.

 

I always found it funny, though, that both Mozart and Beethoven, when writing their symphonies, would write a large, fantastic, movement and then simply place a repeat sign at the end signaling that the musicians return to the beginning and do it all over again.

[vamos scorcho]

completely agree with the above post. what i learned from classical music is that you keep it changing throughout the song. listening to stravinsky, rite of spring was the first time i realized how to go about working on my own music. basically just having a shitload of things going on and having it be constantly changing. from then on i realized that classical music is the single most important thing to understand for a modern electronic composer. in my opinion, of course.

 

i like the idea that you introduce a melody or structure and then completely tear it to shreds and reassemble it. composers used to do this to sort of show off their ability, and i think in modern music it can be taken much further.

 

my philosophy for making music generally is completely different with each track, and comprises a huge part of what makes my music my music. each track is a new, living creature and i work to make it so that something is constantly happening.

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

found sounds

[chim]

I actually find myself writing through-composed works instead of repeating sections because I always imagine that the listener would be bored to hear it repeated and that if they wanted to hear it again they could simply start the song over. I generally prefer music that goes places and never comes back.

 

Yes yes yes.

[YEK]

found sounds

exactly . and a vsti sampler

[Siegecow]

I actually find myself writing through-composed works instead of repeating sections because I always imagine that the listener would be bored to hear it repeated and that if they wanted to hear it again they could simply start the song over. I generally prefer music that goes places and never comes back.

 

Yes yes yes.

 

Its interesting, lately i've found that there's something to be said for repetition: stars of the lid, flying lotus, the field, four tet, Lone, Aim, BoC, burial, etc... you can create some incredible stuff if you know how to make a good groove.

[Squee]

Here's one for you:

If it sounds good then it probably is.

[sneaksta303]

I actually find myself writing through-composed works instead of repeating sections because I always imagine that the listener would be bored to hear it repeated and that if they wanted to hear it again they could simply start the song over. I generally prefer music that goes places and never comes back.

 

Yes yes yes.

 

i need to do this more. i've gotten a bit lazy in my old age...

[acidphakist]

1) Spend a week listening to a particular artist/style of music for countless hours each day. Completely immerse myself in it until I'm sick.

2) Hit the studio and spend some time trying to emulate what I've heard. I often don't get close, but I find myself in new territory.

3) Make 4-5 tracks with the same gear/vst/technique until I've grown bored of it. Learn a new 'trick' while I'm at it. Keep the best of the lot and refine it.

4) Get sick of producing and take a few weeks off and immerse myself in different music.

5) Repeat the process with a few new ideas and tricks in my tool box each time.

 

Some days I'm 'on', other days I can only do the technical things like sound design or wave manipulation. I don't force it when I'm not in the creative mood.

 

I also pay more attention to good recording/mixing/EQing/EFXing than composition. I've found that, somehow, this HELPS my song writing because it isn't forced and I have the added benefit of slowly becoming a better engineer with each track.

[Guest mafted]

Brap would be the word.

[Guest Lube Saibot]

No particular order to these:

 

1. confined kit-list with thorough understanding of each piece of kit

2. stream-of-consciousness process

3. sincerity

4. "i have a big weaponized plutonium dick" moments and motifs

5. childhood regression

6. perfectionism + meticulous engineering

7. embrace of personal musical history

8. great ear and solid, native, ever-present talent

9. the joy of sampling

10. a bit of theory but just a little bit, too much and it's not music anymore, it's an academic project

11. tons of sex

12. artful, not artsy

13. not making music for yourself, nor for others, but for an organic blend of the two

14. not trying to "catch up" with favorite established artists, yet not slacking off altogether upon said realization i.e. "your voice is different, find it"

15. picturing making a living off the music. contextualizing it as a raison d'etre.

16. knowledge of musical tropes i.e. recognizing an 808 snare etc.

17. uncaucasian sense of rythm

18. making stuff that you already feel like rocking with your cock out around the room to when it's only at 50% or something

19. imagining live potential (goes with 18)

20. not being a hipster (goes with 3, 6, 7, 12, 16, 17)

21. not being a teenager

22. proper spelling

23. easy on the drugs

24. not being a fag (goes with all the above)

[Guest pantsonmyhead]

I actually find myself writing through-composed works instead of repeating sections because I always imagine that the listener would be bored to hear it repeated and that if they wanted to hear it again they could simply start the song over. I generally prefer music that goes places and never comes back.

 

Yes yes yes.

 

Its interesting, lately i've found that there's something to be said for repetition: stars of the lid, flying lotus, the field, four tet, Lone, Aim, BoC, burial, etc... you can create some incredible stuff if you know how to make a good groove.

 

a really good discussion about this topic: http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/425/print

stockhausen vs. aphex twin etc...

stockhausen makes the case for music to not be repetative

scanner brings up the point "what I like about repetition is it can draw the listen and lull you into a false sense of security"

great arguments to both sides

when i made breakcore i strived to never repeat anything because that seemed to be the appropriate modus-operandi

Now that i make dance music for the most part repetition with variation is kind of the name of the game

i like the aproach that alot of new producers use which is to keep the kicks and snares and maybe a short melody on a 16 bar loop and improvise around that with basslines,sweeps and extraneous bloopity bloops

 

 

 

for myself i can sit down and make music at any time i have my laptop handy but more often than not it will suck unless i have some proper inspiration, something that's either irritating or exciting me

at least to start a song, i can get all scientific afterwords but that first seed is crucial.

[awepittance]

i almost always rely on collecting new sounds either through field recording or designing them in some way to inspire me for tracks. i've been trying to get away from that for the past couple years but i realize now it's probably the best and most efficient way for me to work. more often than not something i've worked very hard on in the sound design area, like a 5-10 minute long texture won't become a musical track, but when it does it's very satisfying.