goDel Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Ban certificate, anyone? *slowly steps out of X-th ban-discussion thread* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest disparaissant Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I believe a good reason why JR wouldn't want to discuss these decisions before hand is that he already knows the majority will disagree with him. Similarly why we are told to PM about this rather than discuss it out in the open, and why there are hidden crimes that we aren't to know about that only admin can see what will oceania do without goldstein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I will say that kakapo seemed obsessed with the ltm forum, it seemed like he couldn't let go of that, which was unfortunate. On the other hand, there seems to be an element of self-fulfilling prophecy or however you want to put it in this, in the sense that people get more and more polarized and dug in and then the inevitable happens...would be nice to figure out how to defuse things...people like overlook, messiaen, azatoth are not troublemakers by nature. When the rank and file start to get upset, you know something is out of balance. I would say "let's all take a chill pill" except it's bothered me too...If I can offer a suggestion, I do wish JR would "preview" some of his decisions ahead of time, it would help them seem less knee-jerk and also give the impression he was receptive to community input/thoughts...for example, instead of discovering that someone was just "disappeared" from the community, have JR start a thread about why he felt it necessary to ban someone...explaining your perspective early on would help people understand things and be a sign of respect to the community etc. Almost every decision I've heard about has been very abrupt and only explained grudgingly after the fact...surely you must understand why people would be upset to have one of their online friends disappear... Well, I always approached this kind of thing from a privacy point of view - I know if I was banned, I wouldn't want it to be public knowledge (especially if I legitimately screwed up). Some might feel differently. I take exception with the assumption I ban people in haste - kakapo's picture was up for some time before I took action, as it led to me discovering something else and THAT was the reason he was banned. He's posted things and created threads poking fun at me before, and he was never warned nor was he suspended due to it - I took my lumps like anyone else (can't stand the heat, etc.). Had the other, more serious infraction not had been discovered, he would have been warned, and I actually was going to ask him to kindly lay off the insubordination as things were getting tense on the forums with the whole Boxing Day issue, and other closed threads. I didn't have a problem with anything kakapo did as it was just (I hope) poking fun, and legitimate debate about issues he was concerned with. not to mention that all the talent is getting shown the door. Please tell me what any of the recently banned members contributed to the forum other than causing trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o00o Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 at least JR still cares for his forum. I do not remember many that care for watmm this long even Fred is gone. When none of the mods / admins cared anymore people would leave as the troll would take over until all good minded members are scared away. At the beginning its funny to watch a troll but if there is not much content left than to just watch trolls trolling people leave as the trolls do not care and leave after they have become ignored by everybody after a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaksta303 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 It's no-ones fault but i think there is a discordance between Joyrex and the general population of the site that has grown over time. This is what is causing all the problems. Actually, it's Joyrex's fault. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I believe a good reason why JR wouldn't want to discuss these decisions before hand is that he already knows the majority will disagree with him. i dunno though, if it's true that kakapo was fucking with security of the site, that changes my opinion of him. The problem is it's always been hard for me to distinguish between whether or not these "more compelling reasons" are in fact the main reasons, or just justifications that are used after the fact. As when after the nice tits thread was removed I was told "well, how do you know we didn't receive legal threats?"...seemed fishy. Anyway no use writing more about it I guess, those of us who have been here long enough understand the dynamic backwards and forwards...shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 It's no-ones fault but i think there is a discordance between Joyrex and the general population of the site that has grown over time. This is what is causing all the problems. Actually, it's Joyrex's fault. Plain and simple. No because that's like blaming Joyrex for his own tastes. I'm not really talking about any bannings here. I'm more talking about the bigger picture. It's like there's a difference of philosophy between JR and the majority on here. I dont blame JR for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 not to mention that all the talent is getting shown the door. Please tell me what any of the recently banned members contributed to the forum other than causing trouble? Kakapo (and Lady Kakapo) often contributed intelligent, well thought-out posts and discussion to the forum. Even when I don't agree with him, they're still pretty rational and I always respected what he had to say. To try and paint him solely as some kind of troublemaker is disingenuous imho. He also had a very good knowlege of music recording tech that he'd occasionally share on EKT - I always wondered if he worked in that industry as it seemed to be a professional opinion. And damn it, even when he was being insubordinate, he was being funny. He wasn't trolling for trolling's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 i dunno though, if it's true that kakapo was fucking with security of the site, that changes my opinion of him. Given Kakapo's preoccupation with the subject, I'd imagine it had something to do with trying to gain access to or information about LTM. I very much doubt he was planning to take down WATMM or hax up our accounts. This "security" angle is pretty vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Coyote Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 "Every time someone is banned this site gets a little bit shitter" - yes, because the halcyon days of Theocide and Lion are just fondly remembered... If I remember correctly Theocide was an arrogant prick at times but I appreciated their perspective of the California weed scene, something you'd care little about I guess. And some of Lion's martial arts-related and other anecdotes were hilarious and cherished here. Am I confused and thinking of different people? Sure, they weren't posting the things I was interested in or agreed with all the time but I didn't want them banned for it. After a while I got sick of Theocide and chose to hide all his posts and that worked swell for me. Regardless of my opinion, you make it out like banning those two examples was for the greater good of the forum and something appreciated by the influential majority here. If that is actually the case, why can't you leave it up to more than one or two people to solely decide who is banned for whatever mysterious reason? Allow the community to police itself while leaving yourself and the other mods with the ultimate power to action those I know I know, (donations aside) it is your site, this isn't a democracy, you do what you like and I know where the door is. But without repeating those same tired lines, that clearly the majority of members don't agree with, could you address my points please. There's a reason these threads and curiosity around banning keep coming up and it is not something I've seen in other forums. I would have sent you a PM as you have requested and I understand but as this thread is here, and it is a matter that concerns more than just you and myself, I figure I'll take my chances with this post. That said I've sent you a PM in relation to the locked Reality Check thread as I don't want to spam things up by creating an entirely new post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well, I always approached this kind of thing from a privacy point of view - I know if I was banned, I wouldn't want it to be public knowledge (especially if I legitimately screwed up). Some might feel differently. I take exception with the assumption I ban people in haste - kakapo's picture was up for some time before I took action, as it led to me discovering something else and THAT was the reason he was banned. He's posted things and created threads poking fun at me before, and he was never warned nor was he suspended due to it - I took my lumps like anyone else (can't stand the heat, etc.). Had the other, more serious infraction not had been discovered, he would have been warned, and I actually was going to ask him to kindly lay off the insubordination as things were getting tense on the forums with the whole Boxing Day issue, and other closed threads. I didn't have a problem with anything kakapo did as it was just (I hope) poking fun, and legitimate debate about issues he was concerned with. The latter half of that is well said. I just wonder if he might have been warned, even for the more serious infraction? not to mention that all the talent is getting shown the door. Please tell me what any of the recently banned members contributed to the forum other than causing trouble? ezkerraldean and kakapo will both be missed, they brought a lot of flavor and personality to the forum, despite their sometimes rough edges...a trait shared by many banned members. I think the only time where I felt like there was a real careful, drawn out decision making process about a banning, and one I marginally agreed with, was Sini. He just kept getting more verbose, and weirder. But apart from him, I felt most of the others were too harsh for one reason or another. Though I understand in many cases I don't know "the full story"...but on some level that doesn't matter, if the end result is the community is weakened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and just let's deal with WATMM 2.0 for a couple months. No bannings, JR, take a break and calm down. This is upsetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I will say Space Coyote put it very well so I'll be quiet now and go hit my treadmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I will say Space Coyote put it very well so I'll be quiet now and go hit my treadmill email me some photos when you get the chance to the usual address. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid1 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 So what forum do all the banned members go to after leaving WATMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 the best fast food review site on line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 not to mention that all the talent is getting shown the door. Please tell me what any of the recently banned members contributed to the forum other than causing trouble? Kakapo (and Lady Kakapo) often contributed intelligent, well thought-out posts and discussion to the forum. Even when I don't agree with him, they're still pretty rational and I always respected what he had to say. To try and paint him solely as some kind of troublemaker is disingenuous imho. He also had a very good knowlege of music recording tech that he'd occasionally share on EKT - I always wondered if he worked in that industry as it seemed to be a professional opinion. And damn it, even when he was being insubordinate, he was being funny. He wasn't trolling for trolling's sake. Quite possibly true, although I admit I can't recall any examples. I personally never had any issues with him outside of the whole LTM debacle and his occasional pokes at authority, which as I said before, I laughed with the best of them (the Downfall video WAS LOL-tastic). I hope I'm not making him out to be a troublemaker (my mention of the recently banned was more in reference to Boxing Day and not kakapo), but what got him banned was serious enough for me to take the steps to prevent any further problems. I'm being intentionally vague about it as I don't want to encourage any detractors from attempting the same thing, with possibly more disastrous results. i dunno though, if it's true that kakapo was fucking with security of the site, that changes my opinion of him. Given Kakapo's preoccupation with the subject, I'd imagine it had something to do with trying to gain access to or information about LTM. I very much doubt he was planning to take down WATMM or hax up our accounts. This "security" angle is pretty vague. Nothing to do with LTM from what I could tell, nor was it any attempt to 'harm' anyone on the site, or the site itself. I am confident that what he was doing was not malicious, but was still a serious issue to warrant being banned from the site. "Every time someone is banned this site gets a little bit shitter" - yes, because the halcyon days of Theocide and Lion are just fondly remembered... If I remember correctly Theocide was an arrogant prick at times but I appreciated their perspective of the California weed scene, something you'd care little about I guess. And some of Lion's martial arts-related and other anecdotes were hilarious and cherished here. Am I confused and thinking of different people? Sure, they weren't posting the things I was interested in or agreed with all the time but I didn't want them banned for it. After a while I got sick of Theocide and chose to hide all his posts and that worked swell for me. Regardless of my opinion, you make it out like banning those two examples was for the greater good of the forum and something appreciated by the influential majority here. If that is actually the case, why can't you leave it up to more than one or two people to solely decide who is banned for whatever mysterious reason? Allow the community to police itself while leaving yourself and the other mods with the ultimate power to action those I know I know, (donations aside) it is your site, this isn't a democracy, you do what you like and I know where the door is. But without repeating those same tired lines, that clearly the majority of members don't agree with, could you address my points please. There's a reason these threads and curiosity around banning keep coming up and it is not something I've seen in other forums. I would have sent you a PM as you have requested and I understand but as this thread is here, and it is a matter that concerns more than just you and myself, I figure I'll take my chances with this post. That said I've sent you a PM in relation to the locked Reality Check thread as I don't want to spam things up by creating an entirely new post. I appreciate your well thought out post. I bolded a few sections to highlight the conflict the statements have - Theocide wasn't "an arrogant prick at times" - near the end, it was most of the time, and he quickly became the embarrassing drunk relative at a party nobody really wants to say 'you've had a bit too much', but instead nervously laughs at and moves far away from. And co-incidentally, he was banned not directly due to that behaviour, but because he violated a member's privacy (although after the fact, that member ended up negating that whole point by their actions, truth be told). Lion's funny stories were great - I really enjoyed reading them, and he was a decent guy overall - the problem was he wasn't going to take his brother's banning lying down, and ended up giving me no choice but to ban him. For the most part, WATMM does police itself - the mods, in conjunction with the members of this site, do a a great job of keeping things fun and orderly, and it's unfortunate when times like this occur, somebody's got to be the heavy and 'lay down the law' as it were. That unenviable task lies with me, and thankfully there is still more than enough praise to offset any derision I get over decisions and actions I take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 not to mention that all the talent is getting shown the door. Please tell me what any of the recently banned members contributed to the forum other than causing trouble? i don't speak of all recently-banned members, speak of kakapo/ezekelderran. if you REALLY have to ask what they contributed, you have my sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Actually thinking bout it, good riddance, I'm glad he's gone. Finally gives me the space needed to hit on sweet Lady Kakapo. *puts some meat on some bone* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Not to derail this topic, but why do you keep mentioning ezekelderran? If I recall, he might have requested to be banned. Honestly do not remember, and would have to check why if there is any reason I put as to why he was banned (I usually do, as my memory is notoriously bad with some things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Not to derail this topic, but why do you keep mentioning ezekelderran? either you have a crap sense of humor, or you don't read your own board. the guy was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Why isn't there any suspensions given in this forum? Straight up banning is a little bit harsh. Let the offenders be suspended for a set amount of time and have them think over the stuff that caused it. Rack up enough suspensions then it's a ban. Some of these latest bannings have gone to people who have contributed to this site with funny, clever and insightful posts, more so than causing havoc and problems. Soon, or maybe it already is, it will be like walking in a minefield with posting here when you can't even know what will cause a ban. Especially when it's all done in secrecy and out of the blue. I don't like where this NewWATMM is going. It's obvious the community is frowning upon these actions when there is always a lengthy discussion on the bannings. And the forum is nothing without the eclectic mix of people here and it will be a really boring place when it's full of kiddie-friendly, toe the party line sycophants and mindless fanboys around here. I understand that this is your place Joyrex, but you are strangling all the fun out of this place with this new uptight and PG policy, and what made this forum so successful in the first place are the people who contributed to it during it's initial phase and surprisingly enough a number of them have been banned over the years as it's been able to sustain itself without the members that made it initially a place where people came to have fun banter and maybe talk about the IDMz on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 yeah he was a funny guy, as was lion. - that's all people really complain about. And now kakapo. These guys added something beyond joking derision. They were funny. sini - clitterhaus - boxing day, no one misses them. They sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Why isn't there any suspensions given in this forum? Straight up banning is a little bit harsh. Let the offenders be suspended for a set amount of time and have them think over the stuff that caused it. Rack up enough suspensions then it's a ban. Some of these latest bannings have gone to people who have contributed to this site with funny, clever and insightful posts, more so than causing havoc and problems. Soon, or maybe it already is, it will be like walking in a minefield with posting here when you can't even know what will cause a ban. Especially when it's all done in secrecy and out of the blue. I don't where this NewWATMM is going. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Funktion Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 What, do you want some sort of 'public execution' of sorts where the accused crimes are posted for all to see? I think that would make more of a spectacle of it than just banning them, and if anyone asked (amazed how many people seem to still want to make a thread about it rather than just PM me - but that's another debate altogether), provide them with a one-on-one answer. yes, i would. there is nothing wrong with transparency. the fact that you own this site means you have the power to ban people but it doesn't mean you're justified as i'm sure you're aware. "Every time someone is banned this site gets a little bit shitter" - yes, because the halcyon days of Theocide and Lion are just fondly remembered... i loved theocide and lion, they were hilarious. i still remember theocides enormous post on how he achieved the perfect routine for making his hair shiny and glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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