From the West Bank: When Brutality Enters the Mainstream

[Cazador Mod Unit]

 

It began with a visit by a small group of about 15 Israeli peace activists, mostly from the Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement and Ta’ayush, to Yasin Abu-Saleh al-Rifa’i, a Palestinian who owns a plot of land that, to his misfortune, has been included in the area of this large Israeli settlement, which was founded in 1982 and now has a population of nearly 1,000. The Israeli courts have repeatedly confirmed al-Rifa’i’s title to this land, and over the years he has tried to keep his claim alive by planting olive trees there—which are always uprooted immediately by the settlers—and by making continuous visits to the site. (Under Israeli law, land that is not cultivated by its owner for three consecutive years reverts to the state.) Al-Rifa’i and his wife have been repeatedly threatened and sometimes viciously attacked by settlers.

 

On the morning of September 30, the activists accompanied him to the rocky hillside that is still nominally his; they were carrying with them a Palestinian flag. The Anatot settlers seemed to have known ahead of time about the visit, and within minutes, a large contingent of them—estimates range from 60 to 100—arrived and attacked the group. First they cracked open Yasin’s head and attacked his wife, breaking her ribs, and then they beat the Israeli activists with clubs and rocks. Many were injured; four were hospitalized (Yasin himself is still recuperating), and, as usual, some activists—in this case three of them—were arrested (generally, settlers are above the law). There were uniformed Israeli police there—some were present on the scene ever before the attack began—who made no effort to stop the assault. There is no question that the attack was premeditated, and its scale was impressive. Cameras documenting the violence were smashed by settlers and police; vehicles belonging to activists and Palestinians parked nearby were savaged.

 

 

Anatot settlers approaching the activists

 

 

http://www.nybooks.c...-bank-part-two/

[Guest yikes]

hooray for israel!!!!

a class act !

[Salvatorin]

not acceptable

[goDel]

Those sick settlers. Please explain to me why we shouldn't drone-bomb them. Eugene? Where are you honey? It's time to defend the indefensible.

[eugene]

well there's no way to defend it if the facts are sound, calling it mainstream is a stretch though.

from what i read about this 3 activists were lightly wounded in this incident but yasin wasn't wounded at all

[joshuatxuk]

well there's no way to defend it if the facts are sound, calling it mainstream is a stretch though.

from what i read about this 3 activists were lightly wounded in this incident but yasin wasn't wounded at all

 

this

 

The settlers and their conservative supporters are a minority. The fact that ONLY 14% of Israeli citizens opposed the recent prisoner swap, which included 280 prisoners serving life sentences, reaffirms that.

[MAXIMUS MISCHIEF]

that sounds insane, 1027 TERRORISTS for ONE guy??? thats crazy talk

[Silent Member]

really depends on how you define terrorist doesn't it.

[awepittance]

no brutality in Israel will ever reach the 'mainstream' . Just look at how the flotilla was covered in the press, they totally took the israeli propaganda bait and ran with it as did a great deal of Watmm members involved in the discussion.

 

Israel, like China are masters at manipulating public perception of them outside of their own borders, and they will just continue to get better at it, that is until they decide to let off one of their secret nukes (yes they still have not admitted to or let themselves be inspected by the NRC)

[data]

 

thugs

[delet...]

, that is until they decide to let off one of their secret nukes

 

They already did, in bali.

[Cazador Mod Unit]

well there's no way to defend it if the facts are sound, calling it mainstream is a stretch though.

from what i read about this 3 activists were lightly wounded in this incident but yasin wasn't wounded at all

 

post your sources please.

[Cazador Mod Unit]

just your sources for this particular event in the Israeli press, thanks.

[Cazador Mod Unit]

well there's no way to defend it if the facts are sound, calling it mainstream is a stretch though.

from what i read about this 3 activists were lightly wounded in this incident but yasin wasn't wounded at all

 

this

 

The settlers and their conservative supporters are a minority. The fact that ONLY 14% of Israeli citizens opposed the recent prisoner swap, which included 280 prisoners serving life sentences, reaffirms that.

 

 

The International Court of Justice and the international community say these settlements are illegal,^[3][4] and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements.^[5] Israel disputes the position of the international community.^[6] The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.^[7] Israel dismantled 18 settlements in the Sinai Peninsula in 1982, and all 21 in the Gaza Strip and 4 in the West bank in 2005.^[8]

As of December 2010, 327,750 Israelis live in the 121 officially-recognised settlements in the West Bank, 192,000 Israelis live in settlements in East Jerusalem and over 20,000 live in settlements in the Golan Heights ^[9][10] Settlements range in character from farming communities and frontier villages to urban suburbs and neighborhoods. The three largest settlements, Modi'in Illit, Maale Adumim andBetar Illit, have achieved city status, with over 30,000 residents each.

Israeli policies toward these settlements have ranged from active promotion to removal by force.^[11]Since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993, no new settlements have been established in the occupied territories.^[12] However, the ongoing expansion of existing settlements by Israel and the construction of settlement outposts is frequently criticized as an obstacle to the peace process by the United Nations^[13] and third parties including the United Kingdom,^[14] the European Union,^[15] and the United States.^[13]

 

 

 

Amnesty International argues that Israel's settlement policy is discriminatory and a violation of Palestinian human rights.^[79] B'Tselem claims that Israeli travel restrictions impact on Palestinian freedom of movement and Palestinian human rights have been violated in Hebron due to the presence of the settlers within the city.^[80][81][82] According to B'Tselem, over fifty percent of West Bank land expropriated from Palestinians has been used to establish settlements and create reserves of land for their future expansion. The seized lands mainly benefit the settlements and Palestinians cannot use them.^[83] The organization also claims that roads built by Israel in the West Bank that are closed to Palestinian vehicles are 'discriminatory.'^[84]

Human Rights Watch has filed reports on "settler violence," referring to stoning and shooting incidents involving Israeli settlers.^[85] Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and Hebron have led to violent settler protests and disputes over land and resources. Meron Benvenisti described the settlement enterprise as a "commercial real estate project that conscripts Zionist rhetoric for profit."^[86]

The construction of the Israeli West Bank barrier has been criticized as an infringement on Palestinian human and land rights. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs estimated that 10% of the West Bank would fall on the Israeli side of the barrier.^[87][88]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

[delet...]

just your sources for this particular event in the Israeli press, thanks.

 

 

It's in the WE NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG AND THERE'S NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG TIMES.

 

 

 

heh ;-]

[eugene]

the way flotilla incident was covered by mainstream is exactly how it should have been covered, a footage of soldiers getting beat up and thrown head down to lower deck was all the explanation you needed for the cause of 9 deaths, soldiers are allowed to open live fire if their lives are endangered, a later un report found no evidence that live shots were fired before the soldiers landed.

 

regarding this incident ill take it back what i said about yasin wounds, after checking some activists' blogs i saw a video where he sits on a rock with a blood on his hand, but then he isn't getting treated by the activists either so i assume his wound wasn't serious. a blog post from another activists says yasin was pushed and fell on a rock. but it's still not "First they cracked open Yasin’s head", in another video you can see other settlers trying to hold back the more violent thug who grabs a rock.

 

my sources are in hebrew, but if you feel like google translating:

http://2nd-ops.com/esty/?p=74248

http://www.justjlm.org/1583

http://www.mysay.co.il/articles/ShowArticle.aspx?articlePI=aaauak

[eugene]

well there's no way to defend it if the facts are sound, calling it mainstream is a stretch though.

from what i read about this 3 activists were lightly wounded in this incident but yasin wasn't wounded at all

 

this

 

The settlers and their conservative supporters are a minority. The fact that ONLY 14% of Israeli citizens opposed the recent prisoner swap, which included 280 prisoners serving life sentences, reaffirms that.

 

 

The International Court of Justice and the international community say these settlements are illegal,^[3][4] and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements.^[5] Israel disputes the position of the international community.^[6] The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.^[7] Israel dismantled 18 settlements in the Sinai Peninsula in 1982, and all 21 in the Gaza Strip and 4 in the West bank in 2005.^[8]

As of December 2010, 327,750 Israelis live in the 121 officially-recognised settlements in the West Bank, 192,000 Israelis live in settlements in East Jerusalem and over 20,000 live in settlements in the Golan Heights ^[9][10] Settlements range in character from farming communities and frontier villages to urban suburbs and neighborhoods. The three largest settlements, Modi'in Illit, Maale Adumim andBetar Illit, have achieved city status, with over 30,000 residents each.

Israeli policies toward these settlements have ranged from active promotion to removal by force.^[11]Since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993, no new settlements have been established in the occupied territories.^[12] However, the ongoing expansion of existing settlements by Israel and the construction of settlement outposts is frequently criticized as an obstacle to the peace process by the United Nations^[13] and third parties including the United Kingdom,^[14] the European Union,^[15] and the United States.^[13]

 

 

 

Amnesty International argues that Israel's settlement policy is discriminatory and a violation of Palestinian human rights.^[79] B'Tselem claims that Israeli travel restrictions impact on Palestinian freedom of movement and Palestinian human rights have been violated in Hebron due to the presence of the settlers within the city.^[80][81][82] According to B'Tselem, over fifty percent of West Bank land expropriated from Palestinians has been used to establish settlements and create reserves of land for their future expansion. The seized lands mainly benefit the settlements and Palestinians cannot use them.^[83] The organization also claims that roads built by Israel in the West Bank that are closed to Palestinian vehicles are 'discriminatory.'^[84]

Human Rights Watch has filed reports on "settler violence," referring to stoning and shooting incidents involving Israeli settlers.^[85] Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and Hebron have led to violent settler protests and disputes over land and resources. Meron Benvenisti described the settlement enterprise as a "commercial real estate project that conscripts Zionist rhetoric for profit."^[86]

The construction of the Israeli West Bank barrier has been criticized as an infringement on Palestinian human and land rights. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs estimated that 10% of the West Bank would fall on the Israeli side of the barrier.^[87][88]

 

http://en.wikipedia....aeli_settlement

 

the only serious agreement reached between israel and palestinians on land division was oslo accords, which gave birth to palestinian authority. west bank is divided to 3 areas, a ,b, and c. a areas are under full palestinian control with no settlements. other areas are under israeli control where israel can build whatever it wants until further agreements are reached.

shoving international laws into this conflict is a meaningless enterprise given the 1948 war.

[goDel]

west bank is divided to 3 areas, a ,b, and c. a areas are under full palestinian control with no settlements. other areas are under israeli control where israel can build whatever it wants until further agreements are reached.

 

That explains a lot. So Israel can basically do what they want as long as there isn't further agreement. Doesn't seem to me the Israelis (politically) want further agreements because they can do what they want anyways. Was this really agreed upon in the Oslo accords? It doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, international law is especially meaningful when two "countries" disagree over which land belongs to which country. Call it an independent institute of justice. I hope you understand why Israelian law is not really independent in these matters. And, btw do the Israelis even recognize a Palestinian law?

What happens in cases where Palestinian law counter-argues Israelian law?

 

And the point of the settlers having a minority point of view within Israel is all fine, but isn't really relevant. What matters is whether there is justice. Are there settlers being convicted at this point? Or are they getting political wag of the finger, and can keep on doing what they want anyways?

[delet...]

the wag of the finger in the thumbs up motion, whilst being given money, guns and bulldozers.

[awepittance]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

[awepittance]

just want to also point out that just like citizens in the US and their relationship with terrible and inexcusable American foreign policy, a great deal of Israeli citizens do not agree with the Israeli government stance

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/22/poll-vast-majority-of-israelis-want-u-n-to-recognize-palestine/

Nearly 70 percent of Israelis surveyed recently said that Israel should accept a Palestinian state if the United Nations chooses to recognize it, according to a report in Thursday’s edition of The Jerusalem Post.

The poll results fly in the face of American conservatives and even President Barack Obama, who have taken the lead in discouraging the U.N. from voting on the matter, claiming that it could threaten Israel’s security.

The study was carried out by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. They found that just over 69 percent of the Israeli respondents felt the country should accept the U.N.’s ultimate decision on a Palestinian state. A further 83 percent of Palestinians said that turning to the U.N. for statehood is the right thing to do.

The United States has vowed to veto any request for Palestinian statehood at the Security Council, potentially sparking a new Middle East crisis. Tens of thousands of Palestinians took part in rallies to back the Palestinian leader on Wednesday.

[goDel]

Whenever I hear of these cases where huge parts of a population support one position, but politics hold another, I really hope for some Assangian leak. Because with the given information politics doesn't make any sense at all. The only arguments which could make any sense border on conspiracy and "money makes the world go round" arguments. And although there will be some truth to these, I wouldn't trust on anything less than actual leaks as we've seen with the wikileaks.

 

Only one leak can be enough to save the middle east.

 

*goes to the bathroom*

[eugene]

 

west bank is divided to 3 areas, a ,b, and c. a areas are under full palestinian control with no settlements. other areas are under israeli control where israel can build whatever it wants until further agreements are reached.

 

That explains a lot. So Israel can basically do what they want as long as there isn't further agreement. Doesn't seem to me the Israelis (politically) want further agreements because they can do what they want anyways. Was this really agreed upon in the Oslo accords? It doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, international law is especially meaningful when two "countries" disagree over which land belongs to which country. Call it an independent institute of justice. I hope you understand why Israelian law is not really independent in these matters. And, btw do the Israelis even recognize a Palestinian law?

 

What happens in cases where Palestinian law counter-argues Israelian law?

 

And the point of the settlers having a minority point of view within Israel is all fine, but isn't really relevant. What matters is whether there is justice. Are there settlers being convicted at this point? Or are they getting political wag of the finger, and can keep on doing what they want anyways?

 

israel "does what it wants" in a territory that is under its control according to last agreement.

the israeli law and discourse is not that far from the international conventions, but there's that disagreement about the legality of west bank occupation. the israelis do want further agreements because the current situation is a bit shit, it's a costly enterprise in every regard, most israelis want the palestinians to have their state (not because they really like them but because they want to get completely disengaged from them), the disagreement with the "international community" is on borders and military presence. the "international community" might demand from israel to retreat to 67 borders but they're sure as fuck not going to compensate evacuated settlers or send a military force if west bank turns into a 2nd gaza after israeli retreat, just like it didn't do anything to help enforce the 47 partition plan..i believe it's the core reason for israel's attitude towards u.n and other eurofag-whiteguilter attempts at resolving conflicts without actually understanding the region. oslo accords was supposed to be a precursor to final agreement regarding palestinian state, but it came to be a precursor to the 2nd intifada

 

international law is meaningful when its enforceable, and agreeable upon both parties. palestinians never agreed to any international conventions, what sense would it make for israel to tie itself to those ? the eloquent condemnations of terror attacks do nothing to prevent them in the future. there's no such thing as palestinian law.

the justice is mixed with decades of mutual hatred..those settlers can be sued if the activists would like to go that way, the settlers are hardly state's precious as portrayed in the first article. they often clash with the army too, google the recent "migron evacuation" for example.

[eugene]

just want to also point out that just like citizens in the US and their relationship with terrible and inexcusable American foreign policy, a great deal of Israeli citizens do not agree with the Israeli government stance

 

http://www.rawstory....nize-palestine/

Nearly 70 percent of Israelis surveyed recently said that Israel should accept a Palestinian state if the United Nations chooses to recognize it, according to a report in Thursday’s edition of The Jerusalem Post.

The poll results fly in the face of American conservatives and even President Barack Obama, who have taken the lead in discouraging the U.N. from voting on the matter, claiming that it could threaten Israel’s security.

The study was carried out by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. They found that just over 69 percent of the Israeli respondents felt the country should accept the U.N.’s ultimate decision on a Palestinian state. A further 83 percent of Palestinians said that turning to the U.N. for statehood is the right thing to do.

The United States has vowed to veto any request for Palestinian statehood at the Security Council, potentially sparking a new Middle East crisis. Tens of thousands of Palestinians took part in rallies to back the Palestinian leader on Wednesday.

 

there's no problem with the idea of establishment of palestine as a state among majority of israelis, it's the borders, the status of jerusalem and security concerns that must be resolved. generally i felt that the israelis didn't agree with the palestinian move, so i think there's something wrong with that poll, it simply circumvents all negotiations and agreements on borders and theoretically makes hundred of thousands of israelis cititzens of palestinie.

[Cazador Mod Unit]

regarding this incident ill take it back what i said about yasin wounds, after checking some activists' blogs i saw a video where he sits on a rock with a blood on his hand, but then he isn't getting treated by the activists either so i assume his wound wasn't serious.

 

post the video please.

 

a blog post from another activists says yasin was pushed and fell on a rock. but it's still not "First they cracked open Yasin’s head", in another video you can see other settlers trying to hold back the more violent thug who grabs a rock.

 

post the blog and video link please.

 

my sources are in hebrew, but if you feel like google translating:

http://2nd-ops.com/esty/?p=74248

http://www.justjlm.org/1583

http://www.mysay.co....rticlePI=aaauak

 

Next time I will back everything I say with texts written in Sumerian and kindly ask you to do 'google translating'.