E3 2012

[pcock]

i dont play many computer games these days, kind of grew out of them, but when i did, i would take a pc over a console any single day for one simple reason, playing with a console joystick basically feels like being retarded compared the sensitivity and control you get with a mouse.

[pcock]

also, my pc cost 350 quid 7 years ago factory refurbished, and still had the capability of playing bioshock. i appreciate bioshock is probably pretty out of date now, graphics wise, but i was still pretty impressed by that.

[delet...]

playing with a console joystick basically feels like being retarded compared the sensitivity and control you get with a mouse.

 

Pretty much, this is a main point in the debate about switching to using a PC as your gaming rig. And if you can't tell the difference, maybe it suggests that you are retarded.

 

Also, you can buy cheap game controllers for the PC, if you want to use them for games where you prefer that input method.

 

Consoles will die eventually as TV's themselves become fully functional PCs. But i'd still prefer the box beside it that i can upgrade when i feel the need.

[syd syside]

It depends on the game and circumstance. For example, if I play SNES games on my PC, they are less fun than if I played them on my SNES. But FPS games are definitely easier with mouse and keyboard, however it is subjective once again because sometimes it is not about precision, but comfort. Not sitting a few feet from a screen and being able to lie down even is nice, not retarded. However just to note, I have sold my consoles (just an Xbox 360) and will exclusively be playing video games on my PC from now on... but thats mainly because I am more interested in cutting edge experiences and I see more value in having a nicer computer.

[Joyrex]

What? No.... I can't stand pc gaming.

 

Fine, play it on the console where it won't look anywhere near as good as that.

 

No-one is forcing you to play it on the system where it'll look the best.

 

Could you please remind me how much money you were planning to spend on your next computer? £4000 if I'm not mistaken.

 

Spending 4K on any computer is silly - the hardware will be outdated long before you get any return on your investment, and along the way you'll probably have to upgrade it just to play the latest games, etc.

 

The biggest thing I think PC gamers miss in the PC vs console argument is the fact that consoles deliver a very good experience for usually 1/2 to 1/10th of the cost of a PC, and usually the only benefits a PC brings are increased resolution and/or increased frame rate. Nothing else the PC brings to the table overshadows the ease and convenience of a console.

 

DirectX 11 says you're wrong, Joyrex...

 

That's in conjunction with the right hardware though - you don't have the right hardware, and no DX11 for you. Tell me - what's the minimum spec to run DX11, and the costs associated? I bet they're equal to, and potentially more, than a console at current costs. Also, DX11 means nothing if the developers don't take advantage of it's abilities, so there too is a limiting factor on it's supposedly superiority over the console experience.

 

About £200. If that.

 

Also, many PC games are using DirectX 11 and have been for many years.

 

That's around 309USD, which is what a PS3 or a 360 costs, depending on the model you buy. I'm assuming that's a whole PC, with a video card that can do at least 720P/30FPS at a minimum?

 

Come on, Joyrex. You should know that PC components are on a 1:1 price ratio between the dollar and the pound.

 

If that's a whole PC, then I'm frankly surprised, as most 300USD PCs sure as hell can't do basic web browsing and desktop apps that well, let alone run a modern game.

 

Let's take Diablo III for instance - the recommended specs for it are:

 

Windows® Vista/7 (latest service packs) Mac® OS X 10.7.x or newer Intel® Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz or AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5600+ 2.8 GHz Intel® Core 2 Duo 2 GB RAM 2 GB RAM NVIDIA® GeForce® 260 or ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 or better NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M or ATI Radeon™ HD 4670 or better

 

 

The video card listed (the ATI) is 75USD alone, despite being 3 years old - you expect me to believe the rest of the computer is 225.00?

 

Seems like you're confusing a store bought PC that has been built for you and overpriced, containing old components, against a proper PC gamer that generally builds their own system (or at the very least gets a PC custom built to their spec). Completely different worlds, and to be honest it kinda shows that you're a bit unqualified to be talking about the subject if you didn't know that already.

 

a £200-£300 PC built up yourself can very easily do DirectX 11 games at full settings, 1080p resolution.

 

And yes I do expect you to believe the rest is that cheap. Do you realise how old the Core 2 Duo line is? How cheap 2GB of RAM is?

 

It's ok though, what do I know, eh? I've only been a hardcore PC gamer since I was 12 years old. What the hell do I know about the PC gaming world....

 

No, you are certainly in the know here, and I bow to your superior knowledge. Consider me schooled and have a newfound appreciation for PC gamers.

 

i dont play many computer games these days, kind of grew out of them, but when i did, i would take a pc over a console any single day for one simple reason, playing with a console joystick basically feels like being retarded compared the sensitivity and control you get with a mouse.

 

I equate playing with a mouse the same as drawing with a mouse - it feels unnatural to use a keyboard for navigation and a mouse for pointing at things, the same way I would prefer using a stylus versus a mouse to try and draw something onscreen. That's purely preference, though. I won't play fighting games with a control pad, and insist on using a joystick instead.

[delet...]

sometimes it is not about precision, but comfort. Not sitting a few feet from a screen and being able to lie down even is nice, not retarded.

 

The whole time i have been talking about having a PC connected to the TV and playing from your couch using that (as most of my watmming has been for the last eight years). But then i guess i'm letting myself into the fight about it being expensive having more than one computer. heh. And tv's don't let you remote desktop yet, so you couldn't just plug in a network cable from your bedroom.

 

ar well, do whatever you like kids. Just don't say that something is better when it's clearly a 1990 ford festiva.

[syd syside]

sometimes it is not about precision, but comfort. Not sitting a few feet from a screen and being able to lie down even is nice, not retarded.

 

The whole time i have been talking about having a PC connected to the TV and playing from your couch using that (as most of my watmming has been for the last eight years). But then i guess i'm letting myself into the fight about it being expensive having more than one computer. heh.

 

ar well, do whatever you like kids. Just don't say that something is better when it's clearly a 1990 ford festiva.

 

Using a mouse and keyboard on your couch lying down? How? Seems like that would be awkward as fuck.

[delet...]

I equate playing with a mouse the same as drawing with a mouse - it feels unnatural to use a keyboard for navigation and a mouse for pointing at things, the same way I would prefer using a stylus versus a mouse to try and draw something onscreen. That's purely preference, though. I won't play fighting games with a control pad, and insist on using a joystick instead.

 

Also, you can buy cheap game controllers for the PC, if you want to use them for games where you prefer that input method.

 

There are exclusive titles on the consoles of course, and if you're into those franchises, you just have to get the console i spose.

 

sometimes it is not about precision, but comfort. Not sitting a few feet from a screen and being able to lie down even is nice, not retarded.

 

The whole time i have been talking about having a PC connected to the TV and playing from your couch using that (as most of my watmming has been for the last eight years). But then i guess i'm letting myself into the fight about it being expensive having more than one computer. heh.

 

ar well, do whatever you like kids. Just don't say that something is better when it's clearly a 1990 ford festiva.

 

Using a mouse and keyboard on your couch lying down? How? Seems like that would be awkward as fuck.

\

 

i'm doing it right now Well my torso is mildly elevated, so extreme lounging rather than lying down, but this way i can see the screen with my head upright. ;-]

[syd syside]

 

Where would you put you mouse pad and mouse in this circumstance? I just dont see it as being comfortable, while gaming with a controller here would be easy.

[delet...]

 

Where would you put you mouse pad and mouse in this circumstance? I just dont see it as being comfortable, while gaming with a controller here would be easy.

 

So you've chosen to illustrate it with something that doesn't illustrate it. well trolled my friend. ;-]

[Ego]

Carmack's little VR hobby project at E3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYa8kirsUfg&feature=g-u-u

[pcock]

I equate playing with a mouse the same as drawing with a mouse - it feels unnatural to use a keyboard for navigation and a mouse for pointing at things, the same way I would prefer using a stylus versus a mouse to try and draw something onscreen. That's purely preference, though. I won't play fighting games with a control pad, and insist on using a joystick instead.

 

Also, you can buy cheap game controllers for the PC, if you want to use them for games where you prefer that input method.

 

There are exclusive titles on the consoles of course, and if you're into those franchises, you just have to get the console i spose.

 

sometimes it is not about precision, but comfort. Not sitting a few feet from a screen and being able to lie down even is nice, not retarded.

 

The whole time i have been talking about having a PC connected to the TV and playing from your couch using that (as most of my watmming has been for the last eight years). But then i guess i'm letting myself into the fight about it being expensive having more than one computer. heh.

 

ar well, do whatever you like kids. Just don't say that something is better when it's clearly a 1990 ford festiva.

 

Using a mouse and keyboard on your couch lying down? How? Seems like that would be awkward as fuck.

\

 

i'm doing it right now Well my torso is mildly elevated, so extreme lounging rather than lying down, but this way i can see the screen with my head upright. ;-]

 

that will give you RSI man.

[Guest Mirezzi]

Hearing Carmack talk for even 30 seconds reinforces how much he should stay out of game production and just be an engineer.

[syd syside]

 

 

So you've chosen to illustrate it with something that doesn't illustrate it. well trolled my friend. ;-]

 

Trolling? My original point was when you are lying down its hard to use a mouse and keyboard unless you have very ideal tabletop stationed near your sofa. Can you not admit that lying down holding a controller can be more comfortable for a lot of people?

[delet...]

So you've chosen to illustrate it with something that doesn't illustrate it. well trolled my friend. ;-]

 

Trolling? My original point was when you are lying down its hard to use a mouse and keyboard unless you have very ideal tabletop stationed near your sofa. Can you not admit that lying down holding a controller can be more comfortable for a lot of people?

 

Most people are seated on a couch, or very well reclined, not lying down. It is an outriding point to the debate about whether you would want to use a keyboard and mouse to play games on your TV. If you wanted to use a controller though, you could enable one.

 

I find, the keyboard on one's lap and the mouse besides your leg is a very natural positioning. Sure i have a coffee table within easy reach to rest the mouse on if i'm watching and TV show or something. That's sensible, as you don't want the cursor showing up every time you move. But when gaming your head is generally in an upright position. I use the couch parallel with the TV for seated control, and the one at 90 degrees to it for extreme reclining.

 

I hope you understand a little more now, how this revolutionary concept works.

 

heh.

[syd syside]

I just think theres something inherently more casual and comforting with using a controller than mouse and keyboard. Especially for multiplayer games etc. It is what most people who grew up with video games are comfortable with and therefore is a more social and accustom form of interaction. You can sit however you want with a controller and you can rest your hands on your lap. Its all subjective in the end, so I am not saying your preference is wrong, but to say the controller or people who prefer them are retarded... that is wrong.

[Guest boo]

dude:

i dont play many computer games these days, kind of grew out of them, but when i did, i would take a pc over a console any single day for one simple reason, playing with a console joystick basically feels like being retarded compared the sensitivity and control you get with a mouse.

he didn't say using controllers means you're retarded.

 

keyboard and mouse is pretty much only better for FPS innit

 

also, point and click games

[Guest Mirezzi]

There can be no legitimate doubt that for FPS, a mouse is superior, and that many great games are still FPS or FPAdventure (Skyrim).

 

I agree with delet et al. here and have debated throwing down coin for a rig to sit next to my couch.

 

P.S. - I do indeed feel like a Retard when playing CoD, etc. with a control pad, pushing that fucking analog stick and hoping I don't miss by three hundred feet and/or get shot in the balls while waiting to get a decent shot. It's, at best, uncomfortable, especially if you know how precise mouse gaming can be.

[syd syside]

Ah well then I agree and thats exactly what I said. Precision is no doubt better with keyboard/mouse, but sometimes its fine to sacrifice that for a bit more comfort... that's all Im saying. They're just video games...

[DerWaschbar]

The real draw for me with PC gaming is the ease at which you can modify them. The last game I spent much time on was Fallout 3 and I basically found it unplayable and boring until I could cater the game play to suit my tastes.

 

Beyond being able to cater a game to your own liking, the modding community is great for developers to test more radical game play ideas that might seem financially disastrous (a great example is the huge success of Day Z).

[delet...]

but to say the controller or people who prefer them are retarded... that is wrong.

 

hah, that was just a wordplay on what i was quoting. Do as thou wilt, whilst i do my best to convert mine people to the light.

 

I just think theres something inherently more casual and comforting with using a controller than mouse and keyboard. Especially for multiplayer games etc. It is what most people who grew up with video games are comfortable with

 

And yeah, i grew up with a PC for gaming not a console. So there's no nostalgia clouding my sensibilities. (j/k again, sorry sorry, but i'm right, and obnoxious too, which doesn't help sell my message, well except for those that like a firm hand to help them make their decisions, which is most of you).

[delet...]

There can be no legitimate doubt that for FPS, a mouse is superior, and that many great games are still FPS or FPAdventure (Skyrim).

 

I agree with delet et al. here and have debated throwing down coin for a rig to sit next to my couch.

 

P.S. - I do indeed feel like a Retard when playing CoD, etc. with a control pad, pushing that fucking analog stick and hoping I don't miss by three hundred feet and/or get shot in the balls while waiting to get a decent shot. It's, at best, uncomfortable, especially if you know how precise mouse gaming can be.

 

yeah, and you know that they are deliberately nerfing level design on cross platform games, to account for the shortcomings of console controls.

 

It made me quite pissed when we got a PS3 and they were saying that they would allow a keyboard and mouse for their exclusive FPS' and then they didn't. The controller hoard on the one hand were saying that it makes on difference to game control, but then not allowing the choice. They had a chance in that generation of consoles to convert everyone to using a keyboard and mouse on their consoles for those types of games. Which then would have enabled a quicker uptake of browser use and the net through their systems.

[Guest zaphod]

basically, the only reason i even own a console is because i don't have room for street fighter arcade machines in my house.

[oscillik]

It made me quite pissed when we got a PS3 and they were saying that they would allow a keyboard and mouse for their exclusive FPS' and then they didn't.

 

They didn't allow it in the end because they realised that anyone using a controller in multiplayer games would get fucking raped by those using keyboard and mouse.

[Friendly Foil]

fucking raped, bro!