'Global Warming's Terrifying New Math'

[auxien]

maybe it’s because i was raised Catholic, but i’ve got a lot of acceptance of collective guilt/‘original sin’ that works very well for humanity’s wholesale destruction of everything we touch. the 15,000 human babies that were born since you posted that…are they ‘innocent’ i mean yeah obv…but their mere births, most of them in sterile hospitals, are impacting the world. their parents probably drove on a road to that hospital and that road/hospital likely displaced/harmed/destroyed some small or possibly large part of a natural ecosystem. are the parents guilty? the road builders? the doctors? yeah. and no. our existence en masse and requiring the push for moremoremoremore is the issue, we all share in the collective guilt.

imo the only humans absolved of this at the moment are the cornered away tribes living off the land for the most part. any modern human benefits from and/or contributes to the problem to some extent or another. businesses are more guilty, sure, govs too (not much difference between them but anyway) those businesses and govs are ran by people. big decision makers and small menial grunts. all have some say. 100 grunts could wreck most businesses if they wanted to and trigger massive issues that could lessen that company’s impact. that we don’t makes us all complicit by inaction. 

anyway happy Friday everyone!

Edited August 18, 2023 by auxien

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, auxien said:

imo the only humans absolved of this at the moment are the cornered away tribes living off the land for the most part.

pretty much.. but we're limited by the "choices" left to us. if they take away all the good options for transportation.. like trains, light rail etc.. and leave us only with roads and cars and suburbs.. what do we do? we can't all move to NYC or some other place w/density and mass transit that departs so frequently from stations we don't have to look at a schedule. 

america has been brainwashed for 70 years to think cars and roads the only option for being "free" and it's what means freedom.. to drive a car everywhere all the time etc. and buy a bunch of cheap crap and consumer goods constantly. 

so, i can't lay all the blame at average people. some are aware and trying to change and doing what they can. and there's different/same stories in other nations. the system of the world is a piece of shit.. so sure.. some ways we deserve what we'll get but the most disadvantaged people will suffer the most and they don't deserve that they suffer enough already. 

"oh blessed are the meek.. it's the meek. it's good they're getting something. they have a heckuva time"

 

[auxien]

10 minutes ago, ignatius said:

if they take away all the good options for transportation.. like trains, light rail etc.. and leave us only with roads and cars and suburbs.. what do we do? we can't all move to NYC or some other place w/density and mass transit that departs so frequently from stations we don't have to look at a schedule. 

first of all, there is no ‘they’….but beyond that, why not? that Singapore vid i posted yesterday, they’ve got 5.7 mil people in like, a few hundred square acres. NY density and many other cities are similar. we choose not to live in cities like that (i’m one of those, and also not claiming Singapore is perfect/carbon neutral/etc.). we could split 99% of the population of America into ~60 cities peppered at the coasts/inland ports and open the prairies back up for millions of bison and grasses and birds and entire ecosystems that are essentially gone. this could be done within a generation. but we would have to FORCE people to do this, and most of the population chooses not to allow/enact that for themselves. that’s where the guilt lies. i’m as guilty as all the rest. i’d despise living in Houston or LA or NYC or wherever

15 minutes ago, ignatius said:

so, i can't lay all the blame at average people. some are aware and trying to change and doing what they can. and there's different/same stories in other nations. the system of the world is a piece of shit

i blame the average person, 100%. i’m an ass, but it’s the truth. willful ignorance is not absolution. the system of the world is in place and getting worse because of EXACTLY the average person’s ignorance and inaction.

[ignatius]

45 minutes ago, auxien said:

the system of the world is in place and getting worse because of EXACTLY the average person’s ignorance and inaction.

yes and no. when the oil and car dicks buy up light rail and trolley lines in every city in america then shut them down and shove cars down their throats while lobbyists push highways and white people flee cities and all the other racist shit that lead to suburbs and blah blah blah..  people did resist along the way but "progress" was marketed to fuck and people ate it up... at least they did here in the USA. 

and sure, i'll be in the same line as you waiting to reply to the average person when they start talking about how fucked up things are.. we'll reply "Well, what did you expect to happen.. idiot?"

but in some way.. we're all tumbleweeds blowing around in the wind or fish swimming up stream or piss spraying into a fan.. or.. 

i don't know if blame is the most important issue.. maybe it is.. but people don't handle guilt well. "the call is coming from inside the house" only works if people have remorse and douche bags rolling coal from Ford F-650 pick ups have zero of that.

there very much is a "they". real people in real places who made decisions for profit that effected every single life on the planet.

they:

 

[zero]

talk is cheap. meaningful action is the important part. but the problem is, humans get stuck on the talking part. they can't all agree. just talk talk talk away (or shouting) trying to come up with a plan to fix environmental issues. then nothing happens. or the plan starts, then stops without intended result. the proverbial and literal hole digging keeps on happening...

people on this planet have been speaking/writing about the "degenerate age" for 1,000's of years. it is a known fact that "shit is getting worse!" yet we (i.e. humanity) are powerless to stop it. humans are getting worse. behavior is getting worse. consumption habits are getting worse. the plant's ecosystem is getting worse because of humans. just spiralling away down the shitter. this has been going on for a loooong time (yeah, industrial revolution really sped up the decline rate a bit).

there's nothing anyone can do really. you may think you can, but in reality, you are a lone voice in your head out there, imagining some version of how things ought to be. and they ought to be better! sure you can band together with others who share a similar eco-friendly viewpoint, pretend like you're doing something positive. but only a matter of time before you break your own rules. 

things are the way they are right now for exactly the reason they are. past actions of dead humans brought us to the present shit show. humans have been draining the planet of its resources (yet on smaller scale) since the point in time when we evolved past apes, banded together, and developed consciousness/ego as a way to survive amongst other humans. then we kept exponentially growing, consuming, made life easier for the next generation, and voila! almost 8 billion humans now on the planet. way too many!

the solution, if you ask me, is to get humans to turn off the voice in the head (ego), and just exist as naturally as possible. turn off the left brain interpreter, go with the right brain's instinctive take on what the viewer perceives. but this is impossible, because we all live in a society that was developed by and for the ego. we all were forced to live together. we can't all leave society now. we can retreat to nature for spurts to reconnect with how it ought to be. but then we return back to the lives that have all been forced upon us. and these lives involve consuming and/or doing a bunch of shit that is (1) bad for us and (2) bad for the planet... just keep on riding the reality wave, see what happens next, and try and generate some positive karma dudes. that's all we can do.

 

 

[ignatius]

^^^ there's people who have plans and have shared the plans. but no one in power is listening or they just think it's ridiculous. 

[zero]

1 hour ago, ignatius said:

^^^ there's people who have plans and have shared the plans. but no one in power is listening or they just think it's ridiculous. 

and therein lies the problem. science has come up with a game plan to deter harming the planet further. but the egomaniacs in govt/large corporations currently running the planet can't and/or won't accept it. why? money of course. the plans all will involve capital in some way. reducing it or spending it to make change. and so yeah...then we're stuck at a stalemate... we need to completely untangle the money making machine for any plans to work IMO. that involves wide scale acceptance to do so. and the people at the top of the global chain won't allow that. so...

Edited August 18, 2023 by zero

[prdctvsm]

the collective response-ability to take care of ourselves, our fellow creatures & our environment is thwarted @ every step by the innate exploitative structure of capitalism which disavows sharing, cooperation & common sense for profit

[auxien]

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

when the oil and car dicks

those are people. we.

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

lobbyists

people. we.

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

white people flee cities

people. we.

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

people ate it up... at least they did here in the USA. 

people. we. (USA is likely the worst offender)

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

and sure, i'll be in the same line as you waiting to reply to the average person when they start talking about how fucked up things are.. we'll reply "Well, what did you expect to happen.. idiot?"

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

but in some way.. we're all tumbleweeds blowing around in the wind or fish swimming up stream or piss spraying into a fan.. or.. 

no doubt, this is it. all just trying to make it. 

 

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

i don't know if blame is the most important issue.. maybe it is.. but people don't handle guilt well. "the call is coming from inside the house" only works if people have remorse and douche bags rolling coal from Ford F-650 pick ups have zero of that.

agreed in part...i'm not sure how else to address the issues i guess? things need to change, and people by and large don't just listen to someone telling them to do something, they have to come to those conclusions themselves...and to come to a conclusion as a solution they need to feel there's a problem, and a problem that they need to fix. because ultimately it is on all of us, every single person. blaming the 'they' is a copout imo....no offense meant, it's natural, and there are a LOT of evil, terrible, malicious actors willingly harming others human and otherwise....but they're so far and few between, and many of them were not that way for long or maybe even ever again. people making bad decisions/evil decisions for their temporary gain. and everyone does that to some extent or another at some point in time. except maybe one sweet little grandma somewhere lol

8 hours ago, ignatius said:

there very much is a "they". real people in real places who made decisions for profit that effected every single life on the planet.

kinda but not really. i'm a firm believer that nearly anyone is capable of being one of those, given the right chances/opportunities/needs.

6 hours ago, zero said:

we can't all leave society now. we can retreat to nature for spurts to reconnect with how it ought to be.

hopefully we can get there in the long run tho.

4 hours ago, zero said:

that involves wide scale acceptance to do so.

yeah agreed. that's why i fall towards the education/'guilt' side of things...everyone needs to be smart enough to understand what needs to be done and feel the need to make the hard decisions that come with it. 

4 hours ago, prdctvsm said:

the innate exploitative structure of capitalism which disavows sharing, cooperation & common sense for profit

yepyepyep. the inhumane part of the human being. we've all got it, for better or worse 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by auxien
edit to mention: ignatius i'm not trying to be an argumentative dick or anything, i like and respect you my dude. just being repetitive for emphasis.

[prdctvsm]

[iococoi]

hilary is on the prowl

[cichlisuite]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, ignatius said:

you'd have to clarify the 'we' because there's a lot of people.. who don't deserve it.  there's specifically handfuls of people in board rooms making decisions for the last 75 or so years who deserve it.. lot's of it.. and yeah, plenty of duped stupid americans who's faces are going to be eaten by the proverbial leopards... but most average people making whatever limited choices they can make to survive are just pawns.. or worse.. they are fodder for a big nasty machine. 

america is a preposterous place. mind boggling when looking at the scale of stupidity and selfishness in how this place was built.. the inefficiency, the waste.. how cities were built and changed for cars.. suburbs etc..  someone looking around at earth from space might laugh at the stupidity of this place.  the they look south and think "wtf they're wrecking all those forests and jungles for cows to make burgers for fast food places? palm oil... what a bunch of cruel idiots".

to clarify; i meant that all functional people in society are responsible. that is, excluding babies and children and mentally handicapped people, and others that fall into similar categories. i mean that on a global scale. i believe there is no excuse anymore to allow this raging greed-driven system to continue pillaging our planet and exploit everything they can put a price tag on. the ignorant should inform themselves, the passive should become active to demand accountability from the sociopaths and psychopaths who put themselves on top of our society - because we allow them to be our leaders. i'm sick of watching the legal system to let all this shit go on. we should demand proper ways by sheer mass of disobedience and show these fucks we cannot be pushed around and manipulated anymore. we should become a force again, the rich and powerful should fear journalists again, and legal repercussions.

not just about global warming, but  e v e r y t h i n g  that is rotten in our society.

[ignatius]

43 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

to clarify; i meant that all functional people in society are responsible. that is, excluding babies and children and mentally handicapped people, and others that fall into similar categories. i mean that on a global scale. i believe there is no excuse anymore to allow this raging greed-driven system to continue pillaging our planet and exploit everything they can put a price tag on. the ignorant should inform themselves, the passive should become active to demand accountability from the sociopaths and psychopaths who put themselves on top of our society - because we allow them to be our leaders. i'm sick of watching the legal system to let all this shit go on. we should demand proper ways by sheer mass of disobedience and show these fucks we cannot be pushed around and manipulated anymore. we should become a force again, the rich and powerful should fear journalists again, and legal repercussions.

not just about global warming, but  e v e r y t h i n g  that is rotten in our society.

there's no common consensus on those things over here in the US of tarded A. 

if people at the top who make all the decisions and decide what will power things, how we will be fed etc etc.. and by that i mean mainstream culture.. not people aware who go vegan or veg or make efforts to change behaviors and tilt at windmills.. piss in the wind.. for whatever reasons they are motivated by.. but largely.. mainstream culture is going to see whatever 33 things presented to them as what's normal and all their is and what's expected is they pick from those three things.. so, if all the choices are mcdonalds, wendys and KFC.. or drive a truck, a bigger truck or a 2 seater V8 gas guzzler.. then that's all they are going to be aware of and within those choices they will exist. that's their world. they're unaware of any larger narrative happening.. they thing public transportation limits their freedom and that owning and using a car to do everything is their choice and is totally normal and how it's always been etc. 

so, if people suddenly had different choices "ride a bike, take a bus, take the light rail or take your car and pay a $20 toll to enter the city" then they might make different choices. 

so, i guess i'm saying our choices and freedoms are limited by what's allowed by people who designed things to be the way they are. 

i'm not giving everyone a free pass.. just saying.. until those people see reality for what it is and realize they've been brainwashed.. not so many people are going to go out in the street and demand change under threat of life and liberty.. no one is gonna drag the guillotines to the town square  (local abandoned mall?) in some american city because we tell them to get informed about reality. systems of control are in place.. be they political, social, financial etc. defeating that will take hell on earth and that's what we're gonna have to deal with.. and even then it's going to be an uphill battle.. tooth and nail. 

so, if all those people become victims of their own ignorance then so be it. what i think will happen is everything will get very local. mutual aid networks bailing out each other. neighbors helping neighbors as the governments fail and all descends into chaos. 

or something like that. who knows.. could go any of a hundred different ways. 

[prdctvsm]

53 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

should

pls bring on the mf leadership, prioritisation & consensus from Vested Interests™ on this issue. 

revolution for change, by underground resistance

here's an eg: Photographer And His Wife Plant 2 Million Trees In 20 Years To Restore A Destroyed Forest And Even The Animals Have Returned

[zero]

I know its passe' to complain about the weather...but holy hell. another "hottest day of the year" record broken here in TX today. 110f / 44c on the thermometer, before that "feels like" temp makes it like 114f. no rain since early July. everything is super parched. trees dying. it's been hitting at least 100f / 40c every day now for over a month. supposed to keep going like this for at least 2 more weeks. still over 100f at 8pm. total sauna.

I feel bad for all the planets and animals that will die because of this destruction of the planet caused by humans. they had nothing to do with it, are the ones that will suffer the most. they can't turn on the air conditioning to escape it. 

[auxien]

25 minutes ago, zero said:

I know its passe' to complain about the weather...but holy hell. another "hottest day of the year" record broken here in TX today. 110f / 44c on the thermometer, before that "feels like" temp makes it like 114f. no rain since early July. everything is super parched. trees dying. it's been hitting at least 100f / 40c every day now for over a month. supposed to keep going like this for at least 2 more weeks. still over 100f at 8pm. total sauna.

I feel bad for all the planets and animals that will die because of this destruction of the planet caused by humans. they had nothing to do with it, are the ones that will suffer the most. they can't turn on the air conditioning to escape it. 

yeah....i grew up in TX and i remember plenty of 100+ degree days during the summer, but i don't think the highs were near this bad, nor for as long of stretches. been hitting us similar over in Louisiana but i believe y'all and west of y'all are getting it a good shade worse. it's all bad bad bad.

i planted about $350 of native plants on my land in Spring this year. i'll be lucky if 25% of them make it... some are toughing it out (watering as much as i can manage, sprawled over about an acre) but most of them were getting burnt up that first week of hot af temps a month or so ago. literally blackened. they were young plants so not ideal for them to be getting that direct heat, but these are plants designed to deal with this area. except now the area is changing so 

[prdctvsm]

^ shadecloth helpz dem lil planties survive da heat !

[ignatius]

90% doom.  

there's 10 minutes of bullshit at the start so i time stamped the link. it's all focused on migration, when, why, who. he quickly gives broad strokes then focuses on central/south america.. he went there and talked to people to figure out what people were doing and why and what their lives were like. points to climate change as a trigger for lots of events already.

 

[auxien]

1 hour ago, ignatius said:

90% doom.  

there's 10 minutes of bullshit at the start so i time stamped the link. it's all focused on migration, when, why, who. he quickly gives broad strokes then focuses on central/south america.. he went there and talked to people to figure out what people were doing and why and what their lives were like. points to climate change as a trigger for lots of events already.

 

no surprise he's talking so much about the population explosion to start things off.

the places already seeing such change and difficulty are just a start of the possible horrid future for millions upon millions of people. the cities/new areas won't easily absorb hundreds of millions. fucking insanity. the evils of capitalism at every step of the way.

 

[iococoi]

Quote

Climate change: Thousands of penguins die in Antarctic ice breakup

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66492767

[ignatius]

14 hours ago, auxien said:

no surprise he's talking so much about the population explosion to start things off.

the places already seeing such change and difficulty are just a start of the possible horrid future for millions upon millions of people. the cities/new areas won't easily absorb hundreds of millions. fucking insanity. the evils of capitalism at every step of the way.

 

the change in the equatorial zone and how that will effect a mass of population that will mostly migrate will be crazy. best habitable zone shifts far north. likely that most of those people will migrate. 

in the QA at the end the population control question gets asked and he handles it VERY delicately since there's a lot of controversy about all that and how larger organizations/systems are thinking about it. said it's a part of a project he's currently working on but it's unfinished so difficult to talk about. the QA at the end is pretty good. some good thoughts/questions. 

i found it interesting that the audience looks firmly boomer age group. 

[auxien]

52 minutes ago, ignatius said:

the change in the equatorial zone and how that will effect a mass of population that will mostly migrate will be crazy. best habitable zone shifts far north. likely that most of those people will migrate. 

in the QA at the end the population control question gets asked and he handles it VERY delicately since there's a lot of controversy about all that and how larger organizations/systems are thinking about it. said it's a part of a project he's currently working on but it's unfinished so difficult to talk about. the QA at the end is pretty good. some good thoughts/questions. 

i found it interesting that the audience looks firmly boomer age group. 

i watched that Q&A too mostly, but started to tune it out with some of the attitude and vibe i could feel coming from those folks…rich fairly liberal boomers, yeah….as far as i saw all white (save for the presenter, i think she was a professor?), all affluent, they hinted that this is some regular series of talks, probably every couple of months they pay someone to come in and present some ‘oh the rest of the world is dealing with _______’  and then they go get in their Porsches and all head to a wine tasting after.

i liked the idea of Canada trying to bring in some people. let me in Canucks pls i love moose they’re super cool. but yeah the population shifts are already happening, have been slowly and are just gonna ramp up. this is going to lead to lots of conflict and lots of pain and lots of death (more than already happening). curious to hear any reasoned research into human population issues tho, will have to look him up and see where that’s at.

 

[auxien]

the tl;dw takeaway is scientists doing science in reverting natural landscapes to their past states....turns out this is...good? amazingly, who would have thought. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by auxien

[ignatius]

6 hours ago, auxien said:

i watched that Q&A too mostly, but started to tune it out with some of the attitude and vibe i could feel coming from those folks…rich fairly liberal boomers, yeah….as far as i saw all white (save for the presenter, i think she was a professor?), all affluent, they hinted that this is some regular series of talks, probably every couple of months they pay someone to come in and present some ‘oh the rest of the world is dealing with _______’  and then they go get in their Porsches and all head to a wine tasting after.

i liked the idea of Canada trying to bring in some people. let me in Canucks pls i love moose they’re super cool. but yeah the population shifts are already happening, have been slowly and are just gonna ramp up. this is going to lead to lots of conflict and lots of pain and lots of death (more than already happening). curious to hear any reasoned research into human population issues tho, will have to look him up and see where that’s at.

 

yeah.. it's a forum of some kind.. almuni perhaps? they're a part of and linked to the university i think. i noticed the all white heads too and age group. i think that kind of thing serves a function even when it looks like that because of the funding, sharing of the talk. and those people seemed like they weren't deniers or "part of the problem" other than being human beings on the planet with a certain amount of privilege.. and of course, a certain vibe of knowing they're all going to be dead before it gets too bad so they don't need to try too hard. 

other than one or two early questions that were kinda annoying there were some good ones.. especially the population question. 

 

[iococoi]