IDF have told The Times they expect to invade Gaza this weekend.

[SR4]

In defense of the whole blanket Zionist thing, you do understand that Zionist can mean radically different things, right? Essentially Zionism is a basic belief that the Jewish people should seek out a homeland. Some Zionists believe it is their right to settle in Israel; there are large groups of Zionists that condemn the Israeli government for not seeking a two-state solution. There are even some Zionists that considered founding a South American colony instead of migrating to Israel.

 

So when you say Zionism, I am assuming you are referring to the pro-Israeli government militant Zionists as opposed to all Zionists. Its important to make that clarification; by no means are all Zionists united in destroying Palestine.

[Guest theSun]

[brian trageskin]

A socially liberal/democracy will have a lot less radical beliefs because we can freely speak and discuss these topics without fear.

 

right, you can freely speak as long as you don't question israel's legitimacy.

you should see how zionists control the public opinion in france. it is simply impossible to say anything that doesn't fit the zionist standard. when you do so, you're simply demonized. great freedom of speech.

 

Paris had a demonstration in support of Gaza just the other day.

 

 

So yeah, by comparison to some parts of the world the rights we have are the best humanity has to offer right now for individuals. In NO way is it perfect nor are there not horrible examples of individual oppression, but I get the impression that if one is to bring forward actual support for western ideals compared to religious/authoritarian the conclusion is that it is rooted in racism or some kind of white supremacy. I've seen people suggest that the USA is more oppressive than Arabic nations. This is factually incorrect. Now the root of those authoritarian regimes can be and is rooted with Western imperialism. But by making some kind of equivocation that religious extreme authoritarian governments are no worse than the rights and freedoms we have here, it does a disservice to people who are suffering in those regions. Basically while our lives might be shitty over here with corporate power, we as individuals have more freedoms and it's odd to see so many "leftist" support Hamas or religious extremists and attack Christians in the US because they don't like gay marriage. It seems rooted in some kind of white guilt and I know by having this perspective I am open to be called a racist etc. I cannot control those feelings/impressions so at this point I simply don't care about it. I'm not here to feel good about myself but to present a much needed alternative look on our society because in the end I am against most/all institutional religions and Islam will be growing in support over the next decades. The West is simply not populating as much by comparison.

 

try to say something on french TV about zionism, or jewish-related topics, that isn't favorable to jews. you'll get yourself into some massive shitstorm, my friend.

[syd syside]

What would you want to say on french TV about the zionists if you could?

[brian trageskin]

In defense of the whole blanket Zionist thing, you do understand that Zionist can mean radically different things, right? Essentially Zionism is a basic belief that the Jewish people should seek out a homeland. Some Zionists believe it is their right to settle in Israel; there are large groups of Zionists that condemn the Israeli government for not seeking a two-state solution. There are even some Zionists that considered founding a South American colony instead of migrating to Israel.

 

So when you say Zionism, I am assuming you are referring to the pro-Israeli government militant Zionists as opposed to all Zionists. Its important to make that clarification; by no means are all Zionists united in destroying Palestine.

 

right, thanks for clearing things up. again, i'm speaking from a french point of view. to the average frenchman, a zionist is a pro-israeli government person. most french don't know anything about zionism having different ideological branches and. so sorry if my point of view is biased. but you see, the kind of zionists i'm speaking of are really in control of the media in france, i'm serious. and they never say they're zionists, never. the french case about this topic is simply fucked up.

[brian trageskin]

What would you want to say on french TV about the zionists if you could?

 

you can't say anything about french zionists in france. if you do so, you'll be, in this very order: blacklisted, demonized, put on trial, threatened, then if you go on militationg you'll get beaten up by the jewish defense league, and so on.

we even have a law against historical revisionism, that says you can't publish anything that questions the official thesis on the holocaust, otherwise you get one year in prison or a 45000 euros fine. not to mention you're publicly described as the son of satan and the reincarnation of hitler

[syd syside]

What would you want to say on french TV about the zionists if you could?

 

you can't say anything about french zionists in france. if you do so, you'll be, in this very order: blacklisted, demonized, put on trial, threatened, then if you go on militationg you'll get beaten up by the jewish defense league, and so on.

we even have a law against historical revisionism, that says you can't publish anything that questions the official thesis on the holocaust, otherwise you get one year in prison or a 45000 euros fine. not to mention you're publicly described as the son of satan and the reincarnation of hitler

 

So are you questioning the holocaust?

 

And you didn't answer my question. What specifically needs to be publicized about Jews/Zionists that isn't already in the mainstream? International public opinion is that North Korea and Israel are TIED in negative rankings. Perhaps your opinion is more extreme than corporate funded institutions but could that not be because those views are extreme? Need more clarification. Do you think the Jews control the world?

[brian trageskin]

What would you want to say on french TV about the zionists if you could?

 

you can't say anything about french zionists in france. if you do so, you'll be, in this very order: blacklisted, demonized, put on trial, threatened, then if you go on militationg you'll get beaten up by the jewish defense league, and so on.

we even have a law against historical revisionism, that says you can't publish anything that questions the official thesis on the holocaust, otherwise you get one year in prison or a 45000 euros fine. not to mention you're publicly described as the son of satan and the reincarnation of hitler

 

So are you questioning the holocaust?

 

And you didn't answer my question. What specifically needs to be publicized about Jews/Zionists that isn't already in the mainstream? International public opinion is that North Korea and Israel are TIED in negative rankings. Perhaps your opinion is more extreme than corporate funded institutions but could that not be because those views are extreme? Need more clarification. Do you think the Jews control the world?

 

personnaly, i think that several zionist lobbies have an important influence on political decisions regarding foreign policy or even domestic policy in some countries, US, france or the european union for example. i think they're part of a globalist conspiracy where lobbies of different kinds have their part to play, the most powerful ones trying to be the leaders, forming a very heterogeneous trust

[brian trageskin]

so no, i don't think jews rule the world. i think some zionists are part of a giant club of rich people who control the western world

[goDel]

 

LOL

 

Too bad Mittens didn't turn out to be the next president. He'd be able to shake that thing up in no time. That's his specialty.

 

FU US 4 not voting for the Mittens!!!!! ;p

 

 

edit: facepalmmisstakecorrection

[gaarg]

Lol since when did you have this avatar brian?

[brian trageskin]

since you posted the picture here haha

[goDel]

(can't believe this thread is turning into "the post your most recent pic" thread)

 

 

 

 

 

[dr lopez]

since you posted the picture here haha

i always think it's gaarg who's talking CONFUSION

[Alcofribas]

didn't he invent Menachim Sachim Robots or something?

 

nobody? this is brilliant! come aaan

[Salvatorin]

too high-brow for this crowd, alco

[gaarg]

since you posted the picture here haha

 

amazing, I never noticed or did you do no posts?

[BCM]

[SR4]

what needs to be revised about the official thesis of the holocaust?

 

there are plenty, and I mean plenty of academic interpretations and new analyses and critiques of the Holocaust. what isn't allowed (and honestly shouldn't be allowed) is writing that denies the Holocaust, a different beast altogether.

 

I don't know what you feel needs to be "revised" about the Holocaust.

[syd syside]

what needs to be revised about the official thesis of the holocaust?

 

there are plenty, and I mean plenty of academic interpretations and new analyses and critiques of the Holocaust. what isn't allowed (and honestly shouldn't be allowed) is writing that denies the Holocaust, a different beast altogether.

 

I don't know what you feel needs to be "revised" about the Holocaust.

 

I'm still waiting for what needs to be publicized on french TV about the zionist. And specifically speaking. Complaining that there aren't outcries concerning some global zionist conspiracy (while perhaps legitimate) is clearly something no media publication is gonna want to tout too heavily for it would be a baseless allegation.

[awepittance]

 

and your complete disregard of the actual deaths of innocent palestinian children in this offensive is disturbing.

 

and it sort of eerily ties into some of Compson's rebuttals to why the unrestrained war on terror is inherently wrong also, that once you dehumanize muslim arabs even just a little bit more than other human beings it's a slippery slope.

[SR4]

people's halfbaked ideas of cultural objectivism certainly don't help matters either.

[Lane Visitor]

Israel has been the homeland of the Jewish people for ages... It's a historical fact. Of course, there have been Arabs and other peoples living there too. You can find this info just about anywhere. Zionism is simply the Jewish people's right to a homeland- that being Israel- a place where they have resided for ages, come and gone, won wars, shared with other religions, and now a united country, like the U.S. that includes a citizen-base of side of many people of all religions and races. Yes, there have been misplaced people, even offered to give back land, land exchanges, and all kinds of territorial disputes- but like any people defeating an army, they claimed the land after their victory. If you call that unjust you must call all European nations unjust. And the U.S.-- Well, we won't even go there--- If any one is an illegal occupier, it's us. But ya know what, Native Americans aren't going into shopping malls and blowing themselves up to destroy innocent people. So, when I see "Zionist conspiracy of the global elite", for me, it's 1 degree away from "Jewish conspiracy". What conspiracy? Are you serious? That's absurd, man.

 

Right now, Israel is defending itself from rocket attacks from Hamas- a terrorist organization that calls for the death of innocent civilians-- Jews, Christians and even non-extremist Muslims alike out of pure hatred- an religious extremist group like any other, but one that saveagely murders it's enemies for being different than them. I can't imagine running a country whose attackers are launching rockets from the border and inside on innocent people. Then, as a leader, you do your duty to protect your people by hunting down the terrorists with some of the most accurate and precise military tools in the world, but because your attacker uses their own innocent women and children as human sheilds and hides their weapon cache inside of schools and hospitals, you are left with a disgusting decision to make-- take our their arsenal, while unforunately harming people in the way, or stay idle and let them slowly destroy you becuase you are afraid of casualties in the way.

 

If the U.S. or Europe was ever hypothetically in this absurd situation with a terrorist group operating from within or nearby, I don't think the international community would be trying to urge us to stop defending ourselves like they do with Israel. If they were, we wouldn't even blink an eye... yet Israel gets blasted by the international world left and right for responding to these attacks. Why?

 

Because of this "Zionist conspiracy" myth. I'll put it out there dude, I'm a Jew, and a supporter of Israel... a Zionist, if you want to call me that. I don't have a Swiss bank account, BMW, or even much in my savings for retirement. I don't plot world takeover conspiracies with my family or some scheming cabals. Israel is not my center stage for world domination- It's just the homeland of my people. Yeah, it's a bunch of tribal bullshit, I get it.. But it's one small minority, one small country with the right to exist, and it gets shit on any time it defends itself.

 

Criticize the Israeli government, criticize their society as being hardcore smokers, for scandals, drug trade, prostitution, or maybe for being slightly arrrogant or impatient (Can you blame for the daily strife they go through?)... Societies and governments should be criticized... but not DEMONIZED.

 

I've travelled to Israel, took trips to the Golan Heights with kids in the IDF who protected us on the trip. They are regular people who want peace, like you and I, watmmers. They listen to hipster DJs and use Facebook and they like Arabic food and music. They aren't monsters or racist nazis as they are loosely called by people sitting in their ivory tower. The soldiers I have met have love for all cultures, races, religions and creeds, like must of us do over here.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that the goverment that is running the poor impoverished people that share the land with them in Palestine, happens to be a fantatical group of terrorists. Imagine if the Westborough Baptist Church ran the government of the United States and started launching missles into abortion clinics and into Canada and Mexico out of pure fanatical hatred.

 

Hamas is the Palestinians own worst enemy. They deserve a leadership that can be diplomatic with their neighbors, that can stand for real peace, that loves their own country and people and their neighbors, like a leadership should. If that happened, if the stone throwing stopped, if the suicide bombs ended, if the rocket launching stopped, there would be no reason for a "wall", for "apartheid" checkpoints, as anti-Zionists love to call it. Isreal is not racist by having this, they are simply protecting their citizens from getting slaughtered.

 

Of course, all religions have extremists, their are Jewish extremists as well, and they should be condemned when they do wrong, like any other extremist. I'm sorry to say, but I just don't see anywhere, a fanatical Jewish group running around calling for the mistreatment or genocide of non-Jews. I've been all around the world, and lived for 29 years, and I'm Jewish and I have not seen that, but maybe I'm too caught up in my pro-Zionist affairs to see such a thing. So, when someone morally equates Hamas with Israel as a nation, that is downright ignorant and absurd.

 

A Zionist conspiracy right? Well, if Zionist means the right to one's ancient homeland, and the belief that a people can have a place to live without having to live in fear of persecution, if that's the case, you can put me at the forefront of the global zionist elite.

[awepittance]

so many inaccurate and misleading statements in the above post, Israel as it exists today has only been like that since the end of World War II. If you think that it is simply the case of 'jews returning to their homeland' it is ahistorical.

 

 

But ya know what, Native Americans aren't going into shopping malls and blowing themselves up to destroy innocent people

 

ouch, that's just sort of a baffling and highly off base statement. Maybe if we hand't of killed so many of them with small-pox dipped blankets and nearly exterminated them they would be. And top that off with a genetic extreme sensitivity to alcohol and alcoholism than has plagued native american communities for over a century. I mean i suppose it's possible that if Israel wanted to minimize the resistance of Palestinians they can get them hooked on some kind of drug and kill most of them with bioweapons, probably wouldn't have as many crazy terrorists running around if they did that. And even though they violate international law daily, and most of the members of the UN want Palestine to be recognized as a voting body, I'm not sure they'd be able to get away with what the US did to Native Americans 100+ years ago.

 

and to answer your question why does Israel get 'blasted' left and right from the international community? It's simple, they defy international treaties and laws regularly and with impunity from the US, their main funders. They still haven't even admitted they have one of the planet's largest nuclear arsenals, and they want Iran to comply with the non proliferation treaty when they refuse to join the same treaty? The hypocrisy is astounding, and i think most other nations besides the US are smart enough to recognize that.

 

you also make it sound really simple, that Palestinians are just retaliating at something Israel did (take their land) a half century ago without mentioning they are walled in and forced to go through checkpoints and that Israel (in complete opposition to international consensus) continues to build settlements in Palestinian territory. I think this was one instance where the US told them to cut that shit out, but not even the US can or is willing to stop something so clearly egregious.

[syd syside]

and your complete disregard of the actual deaths of innocent palestinian children in this offensive is disturbing.

 

and it sort of eerily ties into some of Compson's rebuttals to why the unrestrained war on terror is inherently wrong also, that once you dehumanize muslim arabs even just a little bit more than other human beings it's a slippery slope.

 

Hamas are responsible for insisting on an armed uprising against Israel (ALL of Israel) which is a regional super-power.

 

Using tactics such as this:

 

 

Now I know none of you are supportive of this. That's logical. Where things get hazy is when it comes down to what Israel should do to defend themselves. What is also hazy is what can become agreeable to both parties.