I love you Eugene but what do you have to say about this?

[xox]

Zionism (ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm)

— n
1. a political movement for the establishment and support of a national homeland for Jews in Palestine, now concerned chiefly with the development of the modern state of Israel
2. a policy or movement for Jews to return to Palestine from the Diaspora

 

I'm really not against the idea Jews having their state. It's actually excellent idea but everything from the start was done wrongly...like it was done in the worst possible way in purpose. Don't know how else to explain the big faq-up called Israel.

 

periods after the number and before parenthesis - perversion that should be punished

 

 

What can i say; Croats are very perversive people.

[xox]

 

waitaminute...what if the questions lead you to zionism?! oh, no!

 

 

you do understand that zionists are not politically or ideologically unified, right?

 

 

On most important levels they are one

they're acting together for their own interests;

soon time will come for the strongest line to prevail

rest will wonder what happened.

 

My god! Poetry!

[SR4]

 

 

waitaminute...what if the questions lead you to zionism?! oh, no!

 

 

you do understand that zionists are not politically or ideologically unified, right?

 

 

On most important levels they are one

they're acting together for their own interests;

soon time will come for the strongest line to prevail

rest will wonder what happened.

 

My god! Poetry!

 

[xox]

 

 

No love for poetry?!

 

 

Couldn't give you more serious answer cause your question was irrelevantly stupid.

[Lane Visitor]

Zionism (ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm)

 

— n

1. a political movement for the establishment and support of a national homeland for Jews in Palestine, now concerned chiefly with the development of the modern state of Israel

2. a policy or movement for Jews to return to Palestine from the Diaspora

 

I'm really not against the idea Jews having their state. It's actually excellent idea but everything from the start was done wrongly...like it was done in the worst possible way in purpose. Don't know how else to explain the big faq-up called Israel.

 

periods after the number and before parenthesis - perversion that should be punished

 

 

What can i say; Croats are very perversive people.

 

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

[xox]

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

Zionism (ˈz

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

 

 

lol Where were the British later....Focus!

 

Now, what do YOU think about:

 

1.) human rights

 

2.) double standards

 

3.) destroying properties of millions and slathering humans for decades

 

4.) 3rd generation of refugees in a refugee camps

 

5.) not responding to none of many international resolutions

[Lane Visitor]

It's weird to me how people who know very little about the affairs/history of Israel/Palestine and usually no connection to it, like to jump into the topic and become very passionate about wrongdoing/legalities, etc of one side. Zionism is such a fun buzz word to throw around and use to demonize with. I consider anyone who believes that Israel is a homeland of the Jewish people, has the right to exist and defend itself, as any other nation does, is a Zionist. Of course, there are many types of Zionism.. As a Jew who supports Israel, I consider myself a Zionist in a broad term... Of course, that word gets abused/misunderstood/exploited all the time, and gets a bad rep from certain schools of thought, and like Eugene points out, the uhh YouTube commenting pool lol.

[Lane Visitor]

 

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

Zionism (ˈz

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

 

 

lol Where were the British later....Focus!

 

Now, what do YOU think about:

 

1.) human rights

 

2.) double standards

 

3.) destroying properties of millions and slathering humans for decades

 

4.) 3rd generation of refugees in a refugee camps

 

5.) not responding to none of many international resolutions

 

 

lol... a survey for Zionists?

 

No country on Earth gets lambasted for every questionable move in terms of foreign/military policy the way Israel does. No nation is held to the utmost ridiculous standards that Israel is held to.

 

Instead of asking supporters of Israel those questions, why not also take the same extreme passion you seem to have about refugees, double standards, human rights and international resolutions, and apply them evenly to countries that not only break international law in countless ways but to whose system is so corrupt that their actions do not even apply to international law. Where's the outrage/passion there? I would like for every single chastise Israel gets to be applied to every leader/government each time they displace their neighbors, each time an innocent bystander is killed, each time they must...

 

create a wall to keep someone from going into their city and using their children to strap on bombs and destroy people in pizza parlors...

 

Sorry, that last part is pretty exclusive to Israel, b/c the type of war that is constantly being waged on them by hezbollah and hamas is one of unconventional tactics... I'd like to know if the government of Croatia, France or Canada would sit by idly and let their neighboring region send weapons in the form of human beings into their civilian populations to murder them without doing anything seen through the eyes of the international world as "divisive" or "apartheid"?? esp if they knew that the intent was to "murder every last french person/croatian/canadian until there are none left" -- intent that is publicly admitted... openly by their goverment, schools, and infrastructure?? Insane scenario, right? ... Yet, still, Israel is more tolerant than many countries can boast, giving Arab's full voting rights, seats in the Knesset, etc. wow.

[xox]

@Lane Visitor

 

You're completely delusional! What a lack of empathy! So the Jews are victims more then Palestinians?! Wow!

Let's put things in a perspective, if you can. On a total of 10 million Palestinians => 200 bomb attacks, 804 deaths. Too much, yes. One is too much....but how many Palestinians died from the start? Just, how many children? You don't know, you don't care. It's easy for you to be openly supportive to Israel and its politics from Phoenix, not actually knowing or not wanting to know what's going on the other side too.

I don't give a shit about politics, state of any arbitrary term but i do care about life and human rights in general and I support them where ever i can. We had war in Croatia not long ago i know what it is. We had no real chance to win but we did cause the truth was on our side. Do you really think what Israel is doing is GOOD for Jews? You know what...YOU are antisemitic!

Second, NOW we are talking about Israel, not Uganda. Open another topic and you'll see me there.

Third, Israel is a tolerant state?! A democracy? Maybe for Jews but not to others. Even many MANY Jews would disagree with you on this. ''...giving Arab's full voting rights'' after what they did and doing to them? That's why they (Jews) demonstrate AGAINST Israel all over the globe, and i respect those people. Eugene himself and that youtube channel he posted (and many other Jewish channels) are the proof that not every Jew is a psychopathic-non-emphatic monster like you when it comes to Israel.

And people like Miko Peled? Why would they lie? He's risking his life, or at least normal life. Tell me what he lied about?

 

Actually OVER AND OUT!

[Lane Visitor]

@Lane Visitor

 

You know what...YOU are antisemitic!

 

not every Jew is a psychopathic-non-emphatic monster like you when it comes to Israel.

 

lol

 

 

Wow, xox, I'm sorry that from your perspective, I am an anti-semetic, psychopathic monster who has no empathy all because I support the state of Israel.

 

Lemme ask you this, do you call all Americans the same thing when they say they are proud to be American and support their country? lol

 

It's funny cuz we didn't even get into the topic of deaths or numbers or any of that area, and you're already putting words in my mouth and saying I have no empathy for innocent Palestinians who are killed? Wow, Xox, wait to paint me. Sorry, but you're not going to accomplish anything by attacking me like that. It just makes you look ridiculous and hateful.

 

Either way, though, really??

 

Chill, bro, this is a forum. If you really have a problem with my position which is a pretty popular one around the world, go and start some kind of Anti-Zionist mission and spread your hate there, not at me, your watmm mate, ya know?

 

P.s. i have many friends in Israel, have been there, read books, studied the topic in college, among other things. I'm not what you would paint me out to be some knee-jerk israel supporter from phoenix simply cuz im a Zionist.

 

Deep breaths dude. (: I'm not out to eat anyone or steal your land or commit crimes against humanity as you might actually think. I'm not part of an organized effort to do anything lol. You are safe.

[Lane Visitor]

... again... XOX...

 

i cant stress this enough

 

this is a forum on the internet with chill bros n gals. we're having a conversation about the middle east. no one's attacking you.

 

we discuss aphex twin and cool things like that.

 

DEEP BREATH!

[lumpenprol]

patrick bateman...zionist...at least you're consistent

[xox]

 

@Lane Visitor

 

You know what...YOU are antisemitic!

 

not every Jew is a psychopathic-non-emphatic monster like you when it comes to Israel.

 

lol

 

 

Wow, xox, I'm sorry that from your perspective, I am an anti-semetic, psychopathic monster who has no empathy all because I support the state of Israel.

 

Lemme ask you this, do you call all Americans the same thing when they say they are proud to be American and support their country? lol

 

It's funny cuz we didn't even get into the topic of deaths or numbers or any of that area, and you're already putting words in my mouth and saying I have no empathy for innocent Palestinians who are killed? Wow, Xox, wait to paint me. Sorry, but you're not going to accomplish anything by attacking me like that. It just makes you look ridiculous and hateful.

 

Either way, though, really??

 

Chill, bro, this is a forum. If you really have a problem with my position which is a pretty popular one around the world, go and start some kind of Anti-Zionist mission and spread your hate there, not at me, your watmm mate, ya know?

 

P.s. i have many friends in Israel, have been there, read books, studied the topic in college, among other things. I'm not what you would paint me out to be some knee-jerk israel supporter from phoenix simply cuz im a Zionist.

 

Deep breaths dude. (: I'm not out to eat anyone or steal your land or commit crimes against humanity as you might actually think. I'm not part of an organized effort to do anything lol. You are safe.

 

 

 

But i did ''get into the topic of deaths or numbers or any of that area'' cause that's what matters the most, beside quality of life on both sides.

If you're referring to lack of empathy for another human being while forcing own interests as a position ''pretty popular one around the world'' i agree, it is popular and that's the subject I'm addressing here and everywhere else. I felt that on my skin during the war in Croatia. No one really cared when we were facing 20 times stronger opponent entering out country, killing and bashing thousands of civilians.

 

Let me make it simpler. You are NOT what i said you are then but still i believe you could benefit from some more objectivity. Bro.

 

- Your WATMM mate.

[xox]

 

 

this is a forum on the internet with chill bros n gals. we're having a conversation about the middle east. no one's attacking you.

 

 

Where did i said that you're attacking me? I'm thousands of km away from Palestine.

 

I was only talking about crimes Israel's doing for decades nothing else.

It must be very strange to you when someone actually care about other people and their miseries. What's that saying about you?

[brian trageskin]

 

 

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

Zionism (ˈz

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

 

 

lol Where were the British later....Focus!

 

Now, what do YOU think about:

 

1.) human rights

 

2.) double standards

 

3.) destroying properties of millions and slathering humans for decades

 

4.) 3rd generation of refugees in a refugee camps

 

5.) not responding to none of many international resolutions

 

 

lol... a survey for Zionists?

 

No country on Earth gets lambasted for every questionable move in terms of foreign/military policy the way Israel does. No nation is held to the utmost ridiculous standards that Israel is held to.

 

Instead of asking supporters of Israel those questions, why not also take the same extreme passion you seem to have about refugees, double standards, human rights and international resolutions, and apply them evenly to countries that not only break international law in countless ways but to whose system is so corrupt that their actions do not even apply to international law. Where's the outrage/passion there? I would like for every single chastise Israel gets to be applied to every leader/government each time they displace their neighbors, each time an innocent bystander is killed, each time they must...

 

create a wall to keep someone from going into their city and using their children to strap on bombs and destroy people in pizza parlors...

 

Sorry, that last part is pretty exclusive to Israel, b/c the type of war that is constantly being waged on them by hezbollah and hamas is one of unconventional tactics... I'd like to know if the government of Croatia, France or Canada would sit by idly and let their neighboring region send weapons in the form of human beings into their civilian populations to murder them without doing anything seen through the eyes of the international world as "divisive" or "apartheid"?? esp if they knew that the intent was to "murder every last french person/croatian/canadian until there are none left" -- intent that is publicly admitted... openly by their goverment, schools, and infrastructure?? Insane scenario, right? ... Yet, still, Israel is more tolerant than many countries can boast, giving Arab's full voting rights, seats in the Knesset, etc. wow.

 

 

when did hezbollah or hamas use children as bombs? and when did they speak of destroying every living jew? i've heard those ones a few times but it seems complete bollocks to me.

[Alcofribas]

i once used a child as a bomb. threw it at my enemy and they both exploded. fuking mental

[joshuatxuk]

 

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

Zionism (ˈz

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

 

 

lol Where were the British later....Focus!

 

Now, what do YOU think about:

 

1.) human rights

 

2.) double standards

 

3.) destroying properties of millions and slathering humans for decades

 

4.) 3rd generation of refugees in a refugee camps

 

5.) not responding to none of many international resolutions

 

 

Now these are legitimate questions, but I have to stress and agree with whoever pointed out that Zionism is a very diverse and varied ideology with many incarnations. In it's formative years, many Zionists proposed Israeli states elsewhere, including South Africa. The problem is that the extremists have steered the movement and equated any criticism of Israeli oppression against Arab-Israeli ethnic groups and Palestinians as antisemitic and anti-Israeli. Christian fundamentalists have been a huge factor in making Zionism also very anti-Islamic. The fact that anti-colonialism and left-wing ideologies naturally fell on the side of Palestinians has only polarized moderate and left-wing Zionists and Israelis even further. There were both Jews and Muslims in the region before the British and before the Ottomans and the Arab States, Jordan and Egypt in particular, were instrumental in displacing and oppressing the Palestinians decades before Israel did on the same level.

 

I personally see nothing but perpetual conflict and misery with absolutely no progress unless secular and democratic compromises and treaties are put in place. The fact that something as basic a two-party state hasn't been implemented has to do completely with delusional, irrational, and flat-out hateful religious and nationalist rhetoric and ideology from BOTH sides. The majority of leadership of both the Palestinian territories and Israeli government perpetuate views that evoke falsehoods and hatred. Nothing will be achieved until policy-makers ignore said organizations and entities. I have no idea what Eugene's personal views are, but I do know that within Israel there is not a huge majority of religious fundamentalist and Zionist extremists. Secularism is dominant, many Orthodox Jews are actually anti-Zionist, and it is plausible for widespread public support of ending settlements, occupation, supporting reasonable concessions, and recognizing the Palestinian Territories. Constant anti-Arab propaganda deters this. The same can be said of the Arab community, which is perpetually indoctrinated to be holocaust deniers and hold other (actual) anti-Semitic beliefs.

 

To be blunt I find the entire conflict to encapsulate the worst of human society's tendencies: hatred, revenge, delusion, ignorance, religious and national zeal. And all for some fucking land and the words of holy books that are thousands of years old. It's easier to pick either side instead of seeking a moderate, pragmatic and objective approach (which is what I try to do). The reality is that a solution of some sort needs to be reached, and it's really really hard for a 3rd party not to be apathetic to the absurdity of it all.

[eugene]

I have no idea what Eugene's personal views are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meretz

[Lane Visitor]

 

 

@Lane Visitor

 

You know what...YOU are antisemitic!

 

not every Jew is a psychopathic-non-emphatic monster like you when it comes to Israel.

 

lol

 

 

Wow, xox, I'm sorry that from your perspective, I am an anti-semetic, psychopathic monster who has no empathy all because I support the state of Israel.

 

Lemme ask you this, do you call all Americans the same thing when they say they are proud to be American and support their country? lol

 

It's funny cuz we didn't even get into the topic of deaths or numbers or any of that area, and you're already putting words in my mouth and saying I have no empathy for innocent Palestinians who are killed? Wow, Xox, wait to paint me. Sorry, but you're not going to accomplish anything by attacking me like that. It just makes you look ridiculous and hateful.

 

Either way, though, really??

 

Chill, bro, this is a forum. If you really have a problem with my position which is a pretty popular one around the world, go and start some kind of Anti-Zionist mission and spread your hate there, not at me, your watmm mate, ya know?

 

P.s. i have many friends in Israel, have been there, read books, studied the topic in college, among other things. I'm not what you would paint me out to be some knee-jerk israel supporter from phoenix simply cuz im a Zionist.

 

Deep breaths dude. (: I'm not out to eat anyone or steal your land or commit crimes against humanity as you might actually think. I'm not part of an organized effort to do anything lol. You are safe.

 

 

 

But i did ''get into the topic of deaths or numbers or any of that area'' cause that's what matters the most, beside quality of life on both sides.

If you're referring to lack of empathy for another human being while forcing own interests as a position ''pretty popular one around the world'' i agree, it is popular and that's the subject I'm addressing here and everywhere else. I felt that on my skin during the war in Croatia. No one really cared when we were facing 20 times stronger opponent entering out country, killing and bashing thousands of civilians.

 

Let me make it simpler. You are NOT what i said you are then but still i believe you could benefit from some more objectivity. Bro.

 

- Your WATMM mate.

 

 

i appreciate you clearing that personal part up... i gotta crack away at work this morning, but i intend on replying to your points made as soon as i get a chance.

[SR4]

 

 

You can blame the British government during the 20's then, who were actually behind colonializing Palestine, and "giving" Jews the homeland they always wanted, as long as it was under British rule, but mainly for the sole purpose of Britain's political/strategic gain. Israel was always in mind as the returned to homeland from most Jews perspective, but the way in which it was "set up" was not organized by pure Zionist efforts, but rather British colonial powers who used Zionism as a vehicle and a way to gain support and what they thought would be Jewish voters for their wartime efforts. Zionism, or the Zionist movement in theory does not hold full responsbility for the "way in which a Jewish state was set up", as you refer to.

Zionism (ˈz

 

In addition, we're talking here about a land that was mostly barren, with many wandering tribes from all walks of life/religion/creed. That land at the time was shared by many different peoples. People blaming Zionism for Palestinian "displacement" are under a delusion. Read historical accounts of Palestine to get a clearer picture.

 

 

lol Where were the British later....Focus!

 

Now, what do YOU think about:

 

1.) human rights

 

2.) double standards

 

3.) destroying properties of millions and slathering humans for decades

 

4.) 3rd generation of refugees in a refugee camps

 

5.) not responding to none of many international resolutions

 

 

Now these are legitimate questions, but I have to stress and agree with whoever pointed out that Zionism is a very diverse and varied ideology with many incarnations. In it's formative years, many Zionists proposed Israeli states elsewhere, including South Africa. The problem is that the extremists have steered the movement and equated any criticism of Israeli oppression against Arab-Israeli ethnic groups and Palestinians as antisemitic and anti-Israeli. Christian fundamentalists have been a huge factor in making Zionism also very anti-Islamic. The fact that anti-colonialism and left-wing ideologies naturally fell on the side of Palestinians has only polarized moderate and left-wing Zionists and Israelis even further. There were both Jews and Muslims in the region before the British and before the Ottomans and the Arab States, Jordan and Egypt in particular, were instrumental in displacing and oppressing the Palestinians decades before Israel did on the same level.

 

I personally see nothing but perpetual conflict and misery with absolutely no progress unless secular and democratic compromises and treaties are put in place. The fact that something as basic a two-party state hasn't been implemented has to do completely with delusional, irrational, and flat-out hateful religious and nationalist rhetoric and ideology from BOTH sides. The majority of leadership of both the Palestinian territories and Israeli government perpetuate views that evoke falsehoods and hatred. Nothing will be achieved until policy-makers ignore said organizations and entities. I have no idea what Eugene's personal views are, but I do know that within Israel there is not a huge majority of religious fundamentalist and Zionist extremists. Secularism is dominant, many Orthodox Jews are actually anti-Zionist, and it is plausible for widespread public support of ending settlements, occupation, supporting reasonable concessions, and recognizing the Palestinian Territories. Constant anti-Arab propaganda deters this. The same can be said of the Arab community, which is perpetually indoctrinated to be holocaust deniers and hold other (actual) anti-Semitic beliefs.

 

To be blunt I find the entire conflict to encapsulate the worst of human society's tendencies: hatred, revenge, delusion, ignorance, religious and national zeal. And all for some fucking land and the words of holy books that are thousands of years old. It's easier to pick either side instead of seeking a moderate, pragmatic and objective approach (which is what I try to do). The reality is that a solution of some sort needs to be reached, and it's really really hard for a 3rd party not to be apathetic to the absurdity of it all.

 

 

 

awesome post, as usual. pretty much my sentiments.

[joshuatxuk]

 

I have no idea what Eugene's personal views are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meretz

 

 

Oh ok right on. This is close to what have assumed. And upon reading the Meretz principles I now actually wish Eugene = Israel.