How many watmm trolls are paid by their governments to be here?

[LimpyLoo]

i like how eugene is defending the united states, the vilification of the us gov is a seriously problematic trend. obviously the country deserves much criticism, but it should be accurate and precise criticism of what led to the wrong doings. general demonization is completely unhelpful, especially when the us has done more good in the last hundred years than maybe any other country, and does operate based on moral values (i know you can find examples to the contrary, but please remember that the scope and complexity of this umbrella topic are immense).

 

while i agree with him that many of the accusations leveled against the us gov lack evidence, i think he may not realize that one of the reasons there has been so much uproar over the surveillance issue is not that it is being misused but that it could be misused in a serious way. omniscience can be a bad thing in the wrong hands.

 

I love you Very Honesty, you know I do, but you are way too soft on Obama and the US Gov't.

 

I see alot of Democrats on my FB feed who just automatically criticise Republicans and defend Democrats. They will simply not concede that Obama or a Democrat has ever done something wrong. I think that is a very unhealthy outlook to have.

 

 

Good things should be acknowledged as good and bad things should be acknowledged as bad.

 

 

 

The US Gov't has done many horrible things and there's no reason to give them a pass for any of it.

[eugene]

 

 

hilarious level of disingenuousness, just like full stop not giving a single fuck about coming off like a diagnosed pathological liar

robbie, you're incapable of having a reasonable debate and even recognizing a logical argument and see lies and and apologetics where there are none. don't mistake the existence of a bunch of likeminded nutters on watmm who will agree with you on anything and salivate on your sisters broadcast for your having an objectively sensible stance. your position and ideas are considered laughable outside of your bubble.

 

 

You have contradicted yourself multiple times, you've backpeddled multiple times, you've ignored or shrugged off all the evidence presented to you.

when ? where ?

 

why talk out of your ass when i showed many times already that i'm very rigorous when it comes to such arguments and address pretty much everything that's thrown to me ?

 

do you really feel you're making a strong point of pointing at your own projections/misinterpretations of my argument and call it a contradiction ?

 

if you actually see a contradiction then show it and make me address it, don't just talk out of your ass.

[LimpyLoo]

Chen pointed out a very clear contradiction you made. Pay attention.

[eugene]

I think Eugene just needs like a full on virtual death dose of acid, i know he was being satirical in his previous post but the dude needs a full on John Lilly style meta-programming at this point, there is no hope for him besides full ego death and reconstruction

 

 

your position and ideas are considered laughable outside of your bubble.

you mean over 50% of the american public as shown in the new Snowden polls? yeah thats a pretty fucking big 'bubble' as you call it. Good call dude seriously

 

the thing is i'm not trying to 'debate' anyone, the facts are there for anyone to see, but you seem to not be able to process them. I'm sorry that by default you have lost the debate simply to a multitude of facts released over the past year

and that shows what exactly ? that they're easily manipulated by sensationalist journalism, is this kind of phenomenon new ? i mean 50% of americans also voted for republicans, so it's pretty much the worst measure you could think of.

[eugene]

Chen pointed out a very clear contradiction you made. Pay attention.

to which i replied to it two times already, so maybe you need to pay attention ?

but i'll clarify it for the 3rd time just for you:

 

there are two concepts in question: illegal mass surveillance (action) and a capability for mass surveillance, i was very consistent in not denying the existence of capabilities but questioning the alleged evidence for illegal action of mass surveillance, and i'm pretty sure i had the same argument in all previous threads on the topic. now if you (or someone else for that matter) see this is some sort of contradiction then you really need to rethink your abilities of logical reasoning.

[LimpyLoo]

You should be a politician.

[eugene]

You should be a politician.

let's summarize our last exchange:

you accuse me of being contradictory, backpedall-y and not addressing the evidence. i reply with a request for evidence for such and you bring only 1 example which i had already addressed and address again just for you. you're seemingly incapable of countering my clarification in any way which makes your previous accusation pretty much dissipate less than an hour after you made it. and after all that you still feel comfortable at throwing some kind of jab at me hoping that portraying me as politician (which you undoubtedly define as someone inherently dishonest relying on empty rhetoric) will actually stick so you could save some face ?

[delet...]

hah hah hah hah. What was the name of the guy, ahh yeah pen experz. You're that guy's doppelgänger. haah. ahh well. Finally the emperor has no clothes and all that. Enjoy the full body tan from your time in the sun, you'll need it when you crawl back under that rock to lick the self inflicted wound of sun burn.

[LimpyLoo]

...or a lawyer.

[delet...]

No offence, i'm just using this opportunity to have fun with language, i gave up arguing with you years ago, there was no hope then and none now. You are what you are, and will always be it seems. peace be, eugene.

[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtI6qEYUoFE&feature=youtu.be&t=15m52s

[eugene]

hah hah hah hah. What was the name of the guy, ahh yeah pen experz. You're that guy's doppelgänger. haah. ahh well. Finally the emperor has no clothes and all that. Enjoy the full body tan from your time in the sun, you'll need it when you crawl back under that rock to lick the self inflicted wound of sun burn.

you have a poor memory delete, i was the one who constantly trolled pen expers so hard that eventually he exploded in rage and got himself banned.

[Guest]

...or a lawyer.

 

 

The concept of the "Jewish lawyer" is a stereotype of Jews,^[1][2][3] which depicts Jews and Jewish lawyers as clever, greedy, exploitative, dishonest, and as engaging in moral turpitude and excessive legalism.^[1][4]

(source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_lawyer_stereotype)

 

 

..but on the reals, imo Eugene has a true talent defending his point of view and is very consistent at it. I can see him defending the shit out a client beyond reasonable doubt.

[awepittance]

nice job Eugene!

i see you've been following this chart quite closely, keep up the good work

[may be rude]

 

 

hilarious level of disingenuousness, just like full stop not giving a single fuck about coming off like a diagnosed pathological liar

robbie, you're incapable of having a reasonable debate and even recognizing a logical argument and see lies and and apologetics where there are none. don't mistake the existence of a bunch of likeminded nutters on watmm who will agree with you on anything and salivate on your sisters broadcast for your having an objectively sensible stance. your position and ideas are considered laughable outside of your bubble.

 

 

Eugene, you are in no position to criticize someone's debating skills. You have contradicted yourself multiple times, you've backpeddled multiple times, you've ignored or shrugged off all the evidence presented to you. The only way you could possibly save face is to say "oops yeah I'm being rediculous."

 

 

i didn't say the united states should get a pass. come on now.

 

obama is great.

[eugene]

No offence, i'm just using this opportunity to have fun with language, i gave up arguing with you years ago, there was no hope then and none now. You are what you are, and will always be it seems. peace be, eugene.

you are not capable of arguing with me because you rely on prebuilt constructs of questionable networks of facts and ideoligies that you hold very dear to yourself and wouldn't reflect on their validity. in every recent argument thatsparked you rely on your meta-narrative of "america is an evil, fascist entity that's working to destroy innocent and peace loving nations like north korea and russia etc", so what sensible person could actually argue with you on political topics ?

[luke viia]

the mass surveillance exists, it has been abused repeatedly and collection methods were deemed unconstitutional in a secret US court overseeing the program as recently as 2011, and that's them facts.

[delet...]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtI6qEYUoFE&feature=youtu.be&t=15m52s

 

 

That mina is a moany minga, her gonna die thing was fucking funny though. Jo is a bit stuck because she wants enlightenment, but unfortunately the program relies on the inner self to come to these realisations and there ain't much going on up in 'er. She felt a bit left behind so had to bullshit about finding out something on the last night. The logical chap was alright, well until the end when he let the team down by giving in to it.

 

Then again perhaps you were prescribing this as a treatment for someone we know. In case i say that i couldn't hurt.

[delet...]

 

No offence, i'm just using this opportunity to have fun with language, i gave up arguing with you years ago, there was no hope then and none now. You are what you are, and will always be it seems. peace be, eugene.

 

I am are not capable of arguing with delet... because i rely on prebuilt constructs of questionable networks of facts and ideoligies that i hold very dear to myself and wouldn't reflect on their validity, given how they contradict with the narrow biased worldview of everyone that i live with in real.

 

fa ikst. [-; You're welcome.

[eugene]

the mass surveillance exists, it has been abused repeatedly and collection methods were deemed unconstitutional in a secret US court overseeing the program as recently as 2011, and that's them facts.

i don't understand, are you trying again to post a blurb of unsubstantiated info to make your point and try to achieve some closure ? it clearly hasn't worked with me in the past so why try again ?

 

the existence of illegal mass surveillance was not proved in any way so far. same goes for continuous abuse (besides that dude that spied on his ex). but yes, the court did find one instance (not a limitless multitude that you're to conjure out of nothingness) of unconstitutional conduct which nsa itself reported and corrected afterward, which was a technological problem and not intentional abuse or illegal conduct according to that article.

[awepittance]

 

 

Students offered grants if they tweet pro-Israeli propaganda

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html

 

 

Israel to pay students to defend it online

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

[chenGOD]

@chengod

 

why is it so hard to follow my line of argument and read what i write through ?

precedents that you mentioned can't act as a proof to what's happening now, the "proofs" (aka this lame excuse for journalism that gg and guardian publish) that most people bring up to prove alleged illegal mass surveillance prove nothing but nsa's capabilities (and even that's questionable), not illegal action, when put under scrutiny.

Precedent is the basis of much law making. Especially in international contexts. I suppose you will only be satisfied post-hoc. Once again you try to win an argument in semantics, not on logic.

Given the history of previous abuse of these mass surveillance programs, it would not be outside the realm of possibility to assume that current programs are also susceptible to such abuse. While much of the hysteria over the current programs is certainly manipulated by certain elements if the press, there is no harm in calling for more transparency in governance.

[eugene]

 

 

Students offered grants if they tweet pro-Israeli propaganda

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html

 

 

 

Israel to pay students to defend it online

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

yeah well, if they money's right i can also work the tinfoilhatter crew. i think i gave a good enough presentation of my abilities as some have mentioned, you interested bobbie ?

[awepittance]

Once again you try to win an argument in semantics, not on logic.

 

exactly, and he knows he's doing it, so essentially its a deception on his part. He's not trying to win the argument based on facts, he's taking a very lawyerly style of debating, which others have already pointed out

[awepittance]

yes just like slavery, the internment of the japanese, the espionage act of WW1 and the dropping of the atomic bomb on hiroshima, all were legal at the time and pretty fucking bad ass. When torture is 'legally' sanctioned by juked Bush lawyers, it's a clever idea to use that barometer of legality to define something as being legal, John Yoo and Jay Bybee have taught Eugene well. Both lawyers who used complex and intellectual language to justify horrendous human behavior