Music Criticism

[hoggy]

What's the purpose of criticising music? What is 'good taste' and why does it matter?

 

If you don't like a piece of music because it isn't to your taste, should you figure out why? Why should you or shouldn't you?

 

Likewise if you dislike a person, should you criticise them? Why? Is it the same as disliking music?

 

Or should you try to appreciate all music if you possibly can?

 

Is insulting people ever valuable?

 

Being critical in general, what's it for, where does it come from?

 

Is there legitimate and illegitimate criticism? Is enmity good sometimes? Why?

 

What are arguments for?

[Guest eczem]

That's a smattering of fun questions. Half asleep, I'll take a stab at an answer that applies to some more than others.

 

I think if music/art were purely subjective taste like flavors of ice cream then music would lack the connective power that it seems to have. Even with food though, criticism serves the role of helping elevate food preparation to fine culinary art. I would take a steak from http://www.parkhouseeatery.com/dinner.html over McDonalds every time, no question. If nothing else, criticism forms the justification or basis for that decision.

 

Music has methods, techniques, it's a language, it has a social implications, it's a human endeavor. Hence criticisim naturally arises.

[may be rude]

insulting harmless creativity (to people who you don't know or who don't like insults) i find to be a rather backward phenomenon. it seems to have its hold in the appeal of condescension that bigots enjoy.

[Guest]

Music is whatever a group of people in a certain culture, place and time define as being music. Whether you like it or not, boundaries are established, framing what is and isn't music. This isn't a fixed, but dynamic process, from the youtube comment to the freelancer getting paid to review. I.o.w deal with it.

[zkom]

Professional criticism is weird but in general people should be able to hold their own opinions and state them even if they're negative. That's how things evolve through discussion. You listen to something you don't like, discuss the possible reasons why it's crap and then maybe you or some other person tries to make something better avoiding those shortcomings. The maker of the original music under the criticism may or may not continue on their chosen path.

 

If everything is considered to be at the same level and worth listening to then nothing will ever evolve or just randomly change to other meaningless crap at the same level. If everything is worth listening to then nothing is worth listening to in particular.

[Amen Lare]

It comes naturally.

[Guest murphythecat8]

criticism is part of life. I'm constantly criticising myself in my life, and so everybody. Its not negative, its useful sometime for a reality check.

we all create for other individuals, so its just a normal and a healthy phenomenon.

 

what would be life without me wathcing over myself and criticising my bad actions or thoughts, same thing with music, or food, or whatever you create and offer/show to another human being.

[joshuatxuk]

There's pop music writing* (music journalism/music reviews/music PR) and that varies tremendously in quality, relevance, and importance. At it's best it's well-researched and well-written, and worthwhile to read regardless of the conclusion and whether you agree or not. It's easy to hate and bash, and often the most maddening. At it's best it's a reinforcement or enhancement of how you feel personally about music.

 

Music appreciation/musicology is academic in nature and unconcerned with promoting or dismissing certain music or assessing it's relevance to present-day pop culture. That's ranges from serious academic history to drunken rants on watmm. A lot of niche blogs and writers are more in this camp too, seeking out and sharing something out of pure interest and passion rather than assessing it as worthy of more public attention.

 

Like anything, I have my preferred writers/commentators but I also strive to read contrarian and differing perspectives. I strive to shed cynicism and needless disdain from my time spent listening to music. Even the absolute worst music (in my opinion) is not a problem if it has sincere fans who get a positive outlet from it.

 

*

music journalism is in a big flux right now - there's far less "ballsy" criticism out there and far more underhanded payola and shameless promotion (compared to say, how NME and Rolling Stone would detract now classic albums - Seefeel literally concluded by being dropped from their label and slammed in the music press, Abbey Road had mixed reviews, Rolling Stone did not champion metal or hip-hop for a long time, etc.) Likewise the internet makes it a lot easier for even the most critically dismissed musicians and genres to plug along without issue (Juggalos, Nickelback, EDM)

 

The shelf-live of new music is so insanely short on the surface as well, very little fleshed out reviews and insightful commentaries, and we're obsessed with lists and "best new music" that it's literally days and weeks before some music is put on a back-burner, not months and years. It's so bad that releasing something in December or January is considered critically risky because journalists are too busy recapping the year before.

 

More alarming and oddly fascinating is how very few independent music journalism sites/publications exist anymore, so many are owned by media conglomerates that also own, operate, and direct PR firms, advertising companies, music labels and management companies, etc. Pitchfork now has exclusive videos, premiers albums, teams up with advertisers and music labels, does indirect promotion of certain artists, etc. without actually stating that it does. They still operate like a independent "music journalism site. On the flip-side Resident Advisor merged DJ lists and networking with reviews in a more transparent manner, but whether thats ok too is arguable.

 

I think we're seeing a big implosion and reset to music journalism again, the way zines and DIY scenes blew up in the 80s and 90s, but now with entities like bandcamp, online gigs and collectives, the tape scenes, using FB and twitter as quasi-labels, etc

 

[gmanyo]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/pitchfork-gives-music-68,2278/

[joshuatxuk]

"In the end, though music can be brilliant at times, the whole medium comes off as derivative of Pavement."

 

[Guest]

Because pissing down on something is a way of feeling better about yourself. "Gosh, those dubstep mongoloids sure have a horrible taste in music. Now let me play this intrinsic wallnoise music, and experience what REAL music is like. My taste is so dandy".

 

In my experience -and I am no fan of dualism, let that be noted- there are two ways of comparison. Upward comparison and downward comparison. Criticizing is downward comparison. Admiration is upward comparison.

[Guest Akiak]

It comes naturally.

[Amen Lare]

Because pissing down on something is a way of feeling better about yourself. "Gosh, those dubstep mongoloids sure have a horrible taste in music. Now let me play this intrinsic wallnoise music, and experience what REAL music is like. My taste is so dandy".

 

In my experience -and I am no fan of dualism, let that be noted- there are two ways of comparison. Upward comparison and downward comparison. Criticizing is downward comparison. Admiration is upward comparison.

 

Not wanting to go against your obvious and universally accepted to the point of nothingness theory, but i'm bashing shit for all my life and not a single time i felt better because of it. It's the dirty work the worst of us should do from time to time.

[Adieu]

It's mostly a way of transferring all the negativity in your life onto someone's heart and soul without repercussion.

[Amen Lare]

It's mostly a way of transferring all the negativity in your life onto someone's heart and soul without repercussion.

 

That's too romantic. Heart and soul, i'm gonna cry.

 

Well mostly yeah, but criticism goes much further than that. You basically describe primitive insults, not tendency for rational thinking and explanation of inadequacy and weaknesses towards sensual and mythological constructions.

[Guest]

 

Because pissing down on something is a way of feeling better about yourself. "Gosh, those dubstep mongoloids sure have a horrible taste in music. Now let me play this intrinsic wallnoise music, and experience what REAL music is like. My taste is so dandy".

 

In my experience -and I am no fan of dualism, let that be noted- there are two ways of comparison. Upward comparison and downward comparison. Criticizing is downward comparison. Admiration is upward comparison.

 

Not wanting to go against your obvious and universally accepted to the point of nothingness theory, but i'm bashing shit for all my life and not a single time i felt better because of it. It's the dirty work the worst of us should do from time to time.

 

Hmhm.. the wonder of the human mind. My short and astute statement wasn't exhaustive.

 

I made a mistake. I shouldn't have mingled in this thread. IT Grzinds me down

[awepittance]

It's mostly a way of transferring all the negativity in your life onto someone's heart and soul without repercussion.

really? I mean admittedly some forms of personal attacks/overly harsh criticism are like this but I think the original poster is lumping too many things together. Being critical doesn't always have to be a form of personal attack or an excuse to put someone down, but the original poster and many perhaps people with too thin of skin seem to believe this takes into account all critical opinions of music or art. Seems very off-base to reality itself

 

to me what's far worse and saddening that genuine thoughtful criticism or those who respond with stupid shit like 'too bad you don't know how to have fun, you should lighten up' or 'you're only saying that because you dislike everything' , its almost as if people can't process criticism at face value and perceive it as some kind of personal slight on their own tastes that they feel compelled to deflect it with some kind of butt-hurt bullshit.

 

people just in general need to grow thicker skin and stop worrying so much about what others think, or if the criticism is a thoughtful and constructive one maybe actually listen to what the person has to say rather than being reactionary and defensive towards it.

[Adieu]

 

It's mostly a way of transferring all the negativity in your life onto someone's heart and soul without repercussion.

really? I mean admittedly some forms of personal attacks/overly harsh criticism are like this but I think the original poster is lumping too many things together. Being critical doesn't always have to be a form of personal attack or an excuse to put someone down, but the original poster and many perhaps people with too thin of skin seem to believe this takes into account all critical opinions of music or art. Seems very off-base to reality itself

 

to me what's far worse and saddening that genuine thoughtful criticism or those who respond with stupid shit like 'too bad you don't know how to have fun, you should lighten up' or 'you're only saying that because you dislike everything' , its almost as if people can't process criticism at face value and perceive it as some kind of personal slight on their own tastes that they feel compelled to deflect it with some kind of butt-hurt bullshit.

 

people just in general need to grow thicker skin and stop worrying so much about what others think, or if the criticism is a thoughtful and constructive one maybe actually listen to what the person has to say rather than being reactionary and defensive towards it.

 

 

No not really. I was trolling a little and parroting what seems to be the consensus of feeling among the successful electronic musicians who frequent this place.

 

Good words those.

 

I regret my hasty and nonobjective criticisms sometimes, but the essence of music is subjective really.

[Guest]

 

It's mostly a way of transferring all the negativity in your life onto someone's heart and soul without repercussion.

really? I mean admittedly some forms of personal attacks/overly harsh criticism are like this but I think the original poster is lumping too many things together. Being critical doesn't always have to be a form of personal attack or an excuse to put someone down, but the original poster and many perhaps people with too thin of skin seem to believe this takes into account all critical opinions of music or art. Seems very off-base to reality itself

 

to me what's far worse and saddening that genuine thoughtful criticism or those who respond with stupid shit like 'too bad you don't know how to have fun, you should lighten up' or 'you're only saying that because you dislike everything' , its almost as if people can't process criticism at face value and perceive it as some kind of personal slight on their own tastes that they feel compelled to deflect it with some kind of butt-hurt bullshit.

 

people just in general need to grow thicker skin and stop worrying so much about what others think, or if the criticism is a thoughtful and constructive one maybe actually listen to what the person has to say rather than being reactionary and defensive towards it.

 

fair point. the word criticism has such a negative annotation to it. fuck, meta discussion are so tiring, and i'm tired to boot.

[awesomeperson]

Because of a sense of entitlement that people have. People want to be entertained and if it's not good they'll sure let you know.

[Adieu]

Because of a sense of entitlement that people have. People want to be entertained and if it's not good they'll sure let you know.

 

This is like a direct quote from what VS said. So either you're a copycat or Hi, Aaron.

[awesomeperson]

 

Because of a sense of entitlement that people have. People want to be entertained and if it's not good they'll sure let you know.

 

This is like a direct quote from what VS said. So either you're a copycat or Hi, Aaron.

 

 

Lol really? Guess I think like VSnares even though I'm not a fan of his music (other than a few tracks here and there).

[Braintree]

Constructive criticism is valuable.

 

I don't mind critics, but I prefer music critics that are actual musicians. Most of them are hobbyists and don't/can't understand what a composer is conveying half the time.

 

To find someone equally adept at music and writing is a rare one.

[yshf]

Being critical doesn't always have to be a form of personal attack or an excuse to put someone down, but the original poster and many perhaps people with too thin of skin seem to believe this takes into account all critical opinions of music or art. Seems very off-base to reality itself

to me what's far worse and saddening that genuine thoughtful criticism or those who respond with stupid shit like 'too bad you don't know how to have fun, you should lighten up' or 'you're only saying that because you dislike everything' , its almost as if people can't process criticism at face value and perceive it as some kind of personal slight on their own tastes that they feel compelled to deflect it with some kind of butt-hurt bullshit.

 

people just in general need to grow thicker skin and stop worrying so much about what others think, or if the criticism is a thoughtful and constructive one maybe actually listen to what the person has to say rather than being reactionary and defensive towards it.

basically sums up all my disjointed thoughts on the matter. fucking excellent post.

[joshuatxuk]

 

Being critical doesn't always have to be a form of personal attack or an excuse to put someone down, but the original poster and many perhaps people with too thin of skin seem to believe this takes into account all critical opinions of music or art. Seems very off-base to reality itself

to me what's far worse and saddening that genuine thoughtful criticism or those who respond with stupid shit like 'too bad you don't know how to have fun, you should lighten up' or 'you're only saying that because you dislike everything' , its almost as if people can't process criticism at face value and perceive it as some kind of personal slight on their own tastes that they feel compelled to deflect it with some kind of butt-hurt bullshit.

 

people just in general need to grow thicker skin and stop worrying so much about what others think, or if the criticism is a thoughtful and constructive one maybe actually listen to what the person has to say rather than being reactionary and defensive towards it.

basically sums up all my disjointed thoughts on the matter. fucking excellent post.

 

 

Kind of goes along with that "don't be a hater" attitude that's fairly common, or smarm more specifically.

 

Another complaint of mine is the lack of canon or historical context existing anymore, especially with so many retro/throwback/emulation musicians and bands around. Too many electronic producers are being heralded for sounds that aren't new. So few music critics have any knowledge of any music made more than 10 or even 5 years ago, and because of that hyperbolic acclaim is too easily lauded upon competent but mediocre acts, and truly innovative and interesting acts are regulated to niche audiences.