modey Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 My macbook cost me $700 used. I'm not gonna say that's cheap, but considering I couldn't afford a new one at the time, it's pretty good; it was probably the highest spec mbp you could buy in '09. And I've never had a windows laptop last that long without something going horribly wrong. Also, my windows machine had that problem with having to switch off asio audio in order to get audio from another program even when using external sound hardware.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah I had the same problem with ASIO, I had to switch it off to watch the youtube. All that took though was going through like 1 or 2 menus and switching it off. It's not I think a good reason at all to discount a pc over a MAC.I listened to some of your stuff, it's pretty simple (in a stylistic way). Turrets is a pretty cool track btw. A $700 laptop from a few years ago should be able to handle that easily(with today's plugins).What I don't get is people using computers 100 times worse than the ones today, effectively for music in the late 90s and early 2000s. I wonder how Drukqs would sound with a computer from 2015. If afx would have concentrated on heavy use of sampling and bouncing out audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 lol turrets was made entirely on a gameboy, with no additional effects :P Most of my soundcloud music is made in hardware or in renoise, but I was talking about my other project Italianz https://italianz.bandcamp.com/ Sure it's not super complex idm, but if you saw our reaper project files you might get an idea. I can understand using underpowered computers. It teaches you to be more efficient in a way. That said though, I do a lot of chiptune stuff which is essentially entirely based around pushing the limits of old computers. When you only have three monophonic melodic channels to work with you can't really afford to even dedicate one to bass, let alone chaining three to just make one sound :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 woah some people have over-reacted. :P My decision stems from the OPs question, I chose the windows over the mac OS due to the specs. It can simply handle more, which is what I need for my music. Most music producers don't go as overboard as I do though so maybe MAC OS is a good decision for them. But if you know ahead of time your projects can get convoluted, then FOCUS ON SPECS. If you don't have the money to shell out for an amazing MAC lappy, then get a windows one. I have a windows custom desktop about 8 months old, spent 1.2k on it, and I STILL have have a few projects using crazy amounts of CPU, screwing up. I would be annoyed to bits now if I had to downgrade to a mac with these projects (for the same price). Having this computer has felt wonderful since I rarely feel bogged down by specs. There's no way I'd pay the same amount for a lesser mac desktop or laptop that would only be able to handle 60-80% of that. I like never slowing down, with lots things happening, and I like playing video games at max. I do browse a lot which I'm sure a MAC is better/funner for, but like.. my windows does the job just fine, so I could care less when I'm getting major pluses with audio and games. aesthetic and ease of browsing is important yes, but before you say that you need to look at how you work and make a decision from there. If you're not willing to shell out the requisite cash for a MAC, then get a windows. This is just anecdotal, but I will say I have another friend with a mac, who's a music producer, and who make house music. So there's not nearly as much stuff going as as in my tracks. He complains sometimes about how often his mac slows down on him. I've made a few house tracks for fun, no such issues. Not even close. We're talking 10% of cpu used after I'm done. I just checked. That said his mac is almost 3 years old so. It might be 3 by now. So that might be the main issue. I also have no clue how much he spent on it. What do you route your audio through/generate your audio with, not software but soundcard/external soundcard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 lol turrets was made entirely on a gameboy, with no additional effects :P I was wondering. The track itself is quite mono and simple. I DID say that it could easily be achieved with a macbook from a few years ago so needing a $1300 computer is irrelevant. I mentioned "todays vsts" because for whatever reason todays vsts require more CPU to get sometimes a simple job done, though they can do more. If All you want is a simple saw wave, then using Massive is a major waste of CPU. I never said you needed anything special for the track so the face-tongue isn't needed :PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP Oh yes, your music is pretty simple. One or two things happening at once. Easily done with a single core computer from 10 years ago. Easily. (Only listened to like 2 tracks though) That's not judgement or anything, but just what I'm hearing. For mine I don't even bother bouncing out to audio and can have 8+ plugins generating audio + dozens of FX on. That's not what I usually have though! I should mention that. BUT I'm capable of it if I wish it. I have no limitations to what my imagination can come up with! Which is wonderful. Right now anyway. I have a feeling in about a year this computer's going to need an upgrade, but who knows. What do you route your audio through/generate your audio with, not software but soundcard/external soundcard? Hey delet, welcome back to watmm :) I suppose an external soundcard, focusrite 4i4, but it requires your CPU so yeah. I could honestly live with ASIO if I wanted to. That would probably be a good thing actually! I don't need to be watching youtube anyway if I'm working on music. Music will provide more contentment in the long run than an entertaining/forgettable YT video. I said earlier that I only got the soundcard for my monitors. The better latency and slightly (slightly) better audio quality was just a convenient plus. I also want to say that i'm not against getting a MAC BOOK. If you really FEEL like the macbook es muy sexy or whatever, and VALUE that over sheer power , then by all means get one! I'm not the kind of person who judges people with any specific hardware or software. But, if you want to argue and say that a mac book is better for your money for music production. I just have to call you out on that. I considered getting a macbook 8 months ago but very quickly ruled it out because of how expensive it was for its power. Power was important because I ALREADY knew of myself that I really wished I could go all out with my tracks, as much as my imagination could allow me. Before my good computer, I had a windows laptop from 2009, probably around Modey's specs. I just couldn't do all I wanted. Not to mention my HD ( 800 GB) was like 100 GB from full. So Audio bouncing was a luxury. Now I use that computer in public and just write piano tracks on it to keep it simple :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Oh yes, your music is pretty simple. One or two things happening at once. Easily done with a single core computer from 10 years ago. Easily. (Only listened to like 2 tracks though) That's not judgement or anything, but just what I'm hearing. haha alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hey man I'm not trying to be mean! Maybe simple isn't the right word. You're not going all out with it, it's a stylistic choice, it's conservative, is that a better word?Aphex's Analord is pretty simple/conservative in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What do you route your audio through/generate your audio with, not software but soundcard/external soundcard? Hey delet, welcome back to watmm :) [-; /now reads the rest of your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Ha, yeah sorry I just find the whole complex/simple thing a bit irrelevant. I've made super ridiculous complex prog tracks in a tracker that take up about 10% of the processing power that our Italianz tracks demand, mostly because we need to process/layer the fuck out of the vocal tracks, and my bandmate always insists that we just keep adding stuff to our recordings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubularCorporation Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I'm pretty much PC only at this point, and here's an example of why: About two years ago I had no trouble finding more or less this system except with only one PSU and with 4x1TB hard drives instead of 4x300gb, configured as RADI 10, for under $800 on eBay. So far even the most demanding mixes I've done on it haven't broken 10% CPU load and it's usually down around 4%. The only downside is the case won't fit any sort of good graphics card, but I'm not a gamer and don't do much with graphics anyhow so it's not an issue for me. I don't know exactly what a comparable Mac would cost but I'm guessing at least four times as much. Only real downside is it weighs 50 pounds and has 5 fans so it's LOUD and has to live in the closet. I only really use the computer for recording and mixing, and use hardware when I perform (less and less often as I get more hardware to lug around, sadly) so portability wasn't an issue. For laptops, macbooks are quite well built although if something goes wrong you're kind of screwed, since parts aren't interchangeable between revisions a lot of the time, much less models. I found that out the hard way trying to find a new motherboard for a 2010 Macbook Pro I got free a while back because it gives a "corrupted RAM" beep error even with brand new, OEM ram installed. You pretty much need the exact revision motherboard as far as I can tell, and the prices are absurd - the cheapest I could find was almost $300 used, untested, no returns. No thanks. Mac and PC are both perfectly capable though, it just comes down to your needs and taste. For me, it's all about getting the most performance for my money and user servicable, but it can definitely take more effort than a Mac, since they tend to run well out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well one thing I said earlier was that I don't like to bounce crap out to audio constantly to save cpu. You can make complex stuff with a 2009 mac book easily, but it's super annoying having to bounce stuff out to audio every time you want to make a new version of something. It kind of gets in the way of the process to me since it takes up so much time to keep track of all of the bounced audio. I'd rather just keep up the momentum of the project, hence why having lots of stacked vsts and FX not be a problem.The fact that I feel okay with adding an FX just for one tiny enhancement (if I can think about it).There are also different kinds of 'complex' you could have complex drum arrangements, but since drums are usually just bits of audio playing which doesnt take up much CPU, then... yeah.But if you like having lots of FX stacked, playing in real time without wasting time bouncing different versions out to audio, then deleting them and stuff whenever you have a new version, then you should probably get a PC. It's just such a buzz kill for me to sit there for 30 seconds, waiting for some bit of audio to bounce. I wanna continue damnit! Mac and PC are both perfectly capable though, it just comes down to your needs and taste This is what I've been trying to say, especially 'needs' by far! Taste is irrelevant to me. If I have a very boring looking computer, if I can run stuff and never lag, then I'll take that over a sexy Mac Book any day. but it can definitely take more effort than a Mac, since they tend to run well out of the box. I keep seeing people say basically this, but I don't get it. Windows runs fine. You install it. Have to get some updates. Maybe have to get a dedicated audio card. The end.My computer can boot up fast, and then I can click on FL studio right away. No weird hoops I have to jump through to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah what I'm trying to say is that I don't do any bouncing down of audio, ever. Not sure how I implied that in my posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The touchpad on the macbook is pretty much the best that exists, and it's much better for dj'ing than almost any other alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah what I'm trying to say is that I don't do any bouncing down of audio, ever. Not sure how I implied that in my posts! Fair enough, can you give me an example in your moozic of something with lots of stacked FX. I just kinda assumed you did since you said you lagged earlier. The touchpad on the macbook is pretty much the best that exists, and it's much better for dj'ing than almost any other alternative. I like the pretty color of the macbook. Reason #1 in my book. I like to touch my 2007 Mac softly sometimes when no one else is around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The Italianz stuff has a lot of compression/EQ/reverb going on, mostly on the vocal and drum tracks but some on the synths as well. I can't name any tracks now but most of the recordings on that bandcamp were pretty dense reaper files. Stuff like that would make my windows laptop chug but my mac handles it fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 mbp on the stage makes girls crazy about you. fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 mbp on the stage makes girls crazy about you. fact! yeah, like how they hated beards until they became fashionable. -sie- You cannee win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haste Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 OP, the only way to find out what you want to know is to own one of each. Expensive, but it's the best way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polytrix Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Cool man. Maybe one day. I'm actually thinking I'm more of a specs over aesthetic/used to windows/haven't got any money kind of person on this so would probably put the money required for a specd out macbook pro which is like £2,000 UK into a ridiculous desktop with a massive screen and advanced cpu instead. I agree with Brisbot in that regard...but equally, I'm probably fine for a few years with my shittop as I'm learning the ropes still really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 that's why i have both, mbp AND pc as ''ridiculous desktop with a massive screen and advanced cpu'' it's the right combination imho tbfh cnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 mbp on the stage makes girls crazy about you. fact! can attest to this. i was swimming in pussy when I had shiny Apple logo on my laptop. now girls just laugh at my ThinkPad logo :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubularCorporation Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Mac and PC are both perfectly capable though, it just comes down to your needs and taste This is what I've been trying to say, especially 'needs' by far! Taste is irrelevant to me. If I have a very boring looking computer, if I can run stuff and never lag, then I'll take that over a sexy Mac Book any day. Yeah, I was definitely agreeing with you. By "taste" I guess I meant ergonomics, mainly. Which OS you prefer working in, and which machines feel better for you physically. Under the hood, Macbooks are just Intel laptops like PCs are, anyway, there hasn't been a significant difference in the underlying technology in more than a decade. They're well constructed, but it's definitely possible to get a PC laptop that's jsut as well made if you have the time and budget. but it can definitely take more effort than a Mac, since they tend to run well out of the box. I keep seeing people say basically this, but I don't get it. Windows runs fine. You install it. Have to get some updates. Maybe have to get a dedicated audio card. The end. My computer can boot up fast, and then I can click on FL studio right away. No weird hoops I have to jump through to get there. Depends on what you're doing. My current desktop needed a third party Firewire card and I had to find one with a chipset compatible with my interface, there are plenty of ways to optimize Windows' performance that aren't really necessary on MacOS. On my current mid-range-from-three-years-ago laptop I had to mess with the way it prioritizes interrupt calls from the USB controller, for one thing. Setting the swap files to a fixed size so the OS doesn't access the hard drive as often is pretty much mandatory. Stuff like that. It's not hard, but it's more work than people seem to do with MacOS. Honestly the only thing about Macs that I personally really miss with PC laptops is the magnetic connector for the power supply, that should be a standard feature on every laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b born droid Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I used PC's and laptops for ages. Used them in a studio environment and also for live performance. Still have a souped up desktop PC for work purposes. 2 years I bought a MBP (thanks to a friend and his education discount), and I can honestly say that gun to head, if I could only ever buy one thing from now until the end of time, I'd go MBP over PC easily. Used to hate having to clear out my windows registry because i'd placed a USB device into a different socket and took up the 10 spaces of available midi devices. Fucking love the fact I can soundcheck, leave everything else on, put my MBP into sleep, come back open it up and everything was working immediately. With my laptops I would constantly have to restart cause Windows wasn't recognising something anymore. And when you've got a soundguy in your ear cause your set is supposed to be starting and the rest of the band looking at you, suddenly 'sheer power' goes out the fucking window and just having something that always appears to work, no matter what you do, becomes real fucking appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flacid Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 afx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wyvern Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Macbook pro and ThinkPad are the two best series of laptops I've used. All mac will be marked up in price comparing similar specs, no doub. Good build quality. Macbook has best touch pad. Build your own desktop. For music production: Linux: barely any software, but all free. Mac: best UI and HCI experience, but not by a lot. Easiest to configure. Windows: most supported OS for piracy. Personally, I dual boot desktop linux and windows and have a macbook. Minimal amount of money to get the most out of using all 3 os. I like mac because you get some nice things from both worlds: unix and good UI. Linux is best software dev OS mainly because of dpkg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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