Guest boo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Also it's fucking insane that she is seen as a feminist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Also she is fucking insane. Edited for clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? i'm just going on the cold hard facts that four people accused him of sexual assault, one of whom was a man (for whom the stigma must have been even greater than for the women). here's some more statistics for you within this article. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/damaging-myths-surrounding-rape-allegations-might-stop-victims-coming-forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? i'm just going on the cold hard facts that four people accused him of sexual assault, one of whom was a man (for whom the stigma must have been even greater than for the women). here's some more statistics for you within this article. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/damaging-myths-surrounding-rape-allegations-might-stop-victims-coming-forward so an accusation is good enough, we should just do away with the whole criminal justice system altogether? your link is broken btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? i'm just going on the cold hard facts that four people accused him of sexual assault, one of whom was a man (for whom the stigma must have been even greater than for the women). here's some more statistics for you within this article. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/damaging-myths-surrounding-rape-allegations-might-stop-victims-coming-forward so an accusation is good enough, we should just do away with the whole criminal justice system altogether? your link is broken btw. copy and paste it into your browser. the statistics in this speak volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQQ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? why is this so incriminating? wouldn't she want to talk about it? if she comes off too aggressive trying to contact him she might not get a chance to talk to him about it in any sort of reasonable way. also i can imagine something that is emotionally traumatic might take a while to process in some cases.There is a lot in that article to suggest he did not rape anyone. I'm inclined to believe him. The evidence brought up in that article is informative and pretty solid imo, not to mention the fact that he was never proved to have done anything despite worldwide interest in the case. And re: that particular message - I don't think a rape victim, particularly one violently/forcefully raped (which supposedly this was) would say she misses her rapist shortly after being raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? why is this so incriminating? wouldn't she want to talk about it? if she comes off too aggressive trying to contact him she might not get a chance to talk to him about it in any sort of reasonable way. also i can imagine something that is emotionally traumatic might take a while to process in some cases. And re: that particular message - I don't think a rape victim, particularly one violently/forcefully raped (which supposedly this was) would say she misses her rapist shortly after being raped. i have zero problem believing some one would do that. going through such a traumatic, violent experience that changes your life forever? yeah man, some people just might respond by pretending everything was ok and normal. not only that but if she was intending to confront him about it one would think her approach was spot bc it's much more likely he'll want to get together if he thinks everything is cool. it's pretty sad how in instances like this people sit back and cast their judgements about how a rape victim "should" act. that's bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 so three women and a guy accuse him of sexual assault and he gets off because the university handled it badly? that sucks. Did you read the message she sent him two days after the alleged rape? i'm just going on the cold hard facts that four people accused him of sexual assault, one of whom was a man (for whom the stigma must have been even greater than for the women). here's some more statistics for you within this article. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/damaging-myths-surrounding-rape-allegations-might-stop-victims-coming-forward All rape allegations need to be investigated to gain proof for prosecution. I agree that on this forum the false allegations are given probably too much attention and everyone was jumping at Cosby's defense, for example, when there was already plenty of evidence against him. College campuses go the other way though. Also bare in mind the differences between how rape cases are handled in UK compared to US--UK has always been notoriously insensitive in further victimising rape victims (or any sexual abuse sufferer). Having said that, I do believe it's important to prosecute when it's proven without doubt that a rape allegation is false (like CCTV footage of the alleged rapist in another location)--with mandatory counselling but low penalty. So just read that article. Like I said,this is a conversation about a rape allegation that took place on US college campus whereas that article is about UK in general. US and UK are very different (and no, we're not necessary better as we all believe). I know this topic is a broad question but it is an indication of being oversensitive if discussions of opposite extremes on one sensitive topic can't be rationally discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 copy and paste it into your browser. the statistics in this speak volumes. "Their research, looking at crimes between January 2011 and May 2012, found 5,651 prosecutions for rape versus 35 for false allegations of rape." One thing to note about this stat is that it's for prosecutions, for both rape, and false accusations you would expect there to be many more cases that they choose not to prosecute due to lack of evidence or other reasons, but which probably should have been. It's impossible to know whether there would be a larger percentage of non-prosecuted rapes compared to false-accusations, while both are types of cases are often difficult to prove, false accusations are only taken to court if they have good reason to believe there was malicious intent, something which probably makes them even more unlikely to prove and so less likely to proceed with a prosecution. In the US they do not prosecute false accusations at all, which could well lead to an more of them happening. That article also only uses the lowest estimates it could find, clearly looking only for evidence to back up the authors pre-existing belief. If you look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape you'll see a much wider variety of figures. It's impossible to draw any firm conclusions when there's so much contradictory data. Anyway, regardless of whether the actual stat is closer to 2% or 10% (or even higher as some of the studies show), it's obviously non-zero, and the evidence in the case we're talking about certainly indicates that it's one of them. In the overall scheme of things, obviously rape is a far worse problem than false rape accusations, but that doesn't mean we should automatically favour accusers over evidence, or even lack of evidence. We have a justice system that rightly prioritises the presumption of innocence, based on the principle that it's better to let a guilty person go free than lock up an innocent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQQ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Fuck quoting those posts again, it's getting long. I'm not saying that without a doubt he didn't do it but I think there is some good evidence to suggest he didn't. I haven't followed the case strictly so I may be wrong but where's the proof he did do it? (If there is anyone I'd actual like to know, not tryna be a dick). Why do you find it strange that he may not have when there is as much evidence he didn't do it (if not more) than evidence he did. Don't forget the uni first did an investigation into the alleged assault and they came to the conclusion he didn't, and THEN despite worldwide interest in the case nobody else proved anything either, or do you just believe the supposed victim because it's an easier story to swallow? Re: alco, calm down dawg you know that's not what I've said. I haven't said anyone should behave one way or another after an event like that, but the girl were talking about did an extremely public protest (or 'protest' dependent on whether or not it happened) - I don't think she would be afraid of calling him out on it more directly. I agree it would be wrong to take anything like this on face value, especially when the media presents everything in a fashion as of her recounting of the events were the unbaised truth, backed up with proof, buuuut is that not what you guys are doing? I am open to being wrong btw, so don't think I'm just being a dick. Just sayin, sprayin n slayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yeah I guess it's not that solid as evidence. To me "paul-emma chill sess" implies two criteria: just them alone, and in a private location. It's difficult to conceive that anyone would want to be alone with someone who raped them, esp. if they were planning to confront him. That is my judgement of "how a rape victim "would" act" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Are the facebook conversations for real though? Because a few weeks later she was supposedly still saying she loveed him, wanted to help him with a fundraiser and stuff http://www.scribd.com/doc/254707818/Facebook-Conversations#scribd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny O Flannagin Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 i find some of the attitudes on this page about rape and sexual assault extremely disappointing. although it's obviously not possible to put yourself in the position of the victim of sexual assault, perhaps imagine if this had happened to someone close to you and try to imagine how you would feel about that. what if someone forced themselves on your sister, or even your girlfriend. would you be so blase and dismissive of it? these things go unreported far more than they do misreported. there's still a great deal of stigma behind getting assaulted (damaged goods etc) and it takes a lot of courage to come forward and report it. i find it very difficult to believe the female student in question would fake a rape for the sake of an art project. yes the guy was not convicted, but in most cases the guy gets away with it. in a case of non violent sexual assault it can be difficult to gauge culpability. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapists-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf Thank you, i was thinking the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Nobody is talking about ALL rapes. We're talking about this specific case in which nobody seemed to actually care what the truth was and apparently people in this thread don't either. What she did is damaging to actual rape victims, and they will tell you just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 When the only evidence that exists contradicts what the accuser is claiming, and the accused is cooperating and disclosing far more information than the accuser, at what point do we stop letting some crazy person with a vendetta take advantage of our protective instincts? This is why we have due process... so common biases don't cloud everyone's judgment, which it clearly did here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQQ Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 but why would she want to ruin someone's life and risk ruining her own by making false accusations?The guy was seeing another girl later on from what I gather of the conversations they had. Maybe she decided to ruin him simply based on that. People do far crazier things based on less, especially when relationships have been involved. She also benefits from this scenario don't forget. Worldwide fame as a feminist and an 'artist', surely the two things she wants to be known for. (I am not saying this is what I think has happened, just saying). When the only evidence that exists contradicts what the accuser is claiming, and the accused is cooperating and disclosing far more information than the accuser, at what point do we stop letting some crazy person with a vendetta take advantage of our protective instincts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drillkicker Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Fuck quoting those posts again, it's getting long. I'm not saying that without a doubt he didn't do it but I think there is some good evidence to suggest he didn't. I haven't followed the case strictly so I may be wrong but where's the proof he did do it? (If there is anyone I'd actual like to know, not tryna be a dick). Why do you find it strange that he may not have when there is as much evidence he didn't do it (if not more) than evidence he did. Don't forget the uni first did an investigation into the alleged assault and they came to the conclusion he didn't, and THEN despite worldwide interest in the case nobody else proved anything either, or do you just believe the supposed victim because it's an easier story to swallow? Re: alco, calm down dawg you know that's not what I've said. I haven't said anyone should behave one way or another after an event like that, but the girl were talking about did an extremely public protest (or 'protest' dependent on whether or not it happened) - I don't think she would be afraid of calling him out on it more directly. I agree it would be wrong to take anything like this on face value, especially when the media presents everything in a fashion as of her recounting of the events were the unbaised truth, backed up with proof, buuuut is that not what you guys are doing? I am open to being wrong btw, so don't think I'm just being a dick. Just sayin, sprayin n slayin. i think the person accused needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what she's alleging was consensual and not the other way around. you may not think that's fair, but it's fairer than adopting the attitude of "prove you were raped or the accused goes free". so...it is quite often a physically violent thing that may just leave obvious signs, to which a lot of people with that exact same attitude would say "prove you didn't make those bruises yourself". dangerous way of thinking imo. i think the fact that she would have to live with knowing she is a liar, and the actual physical burden of carrying the whole mattress around probably says something about where she is coming from. she comes off as attention seeking or whatever but i just find it hard to believe she would go to that amount of effort. That isn't how legal systems work. It's sad that you don't see how much corruption would result from that attitude. I know it seems like a good plan to you, but you're overestimating the human conscience. The problem is that there are many sociopaths who would love to take advantage of a corrupt legal system, whether they're civilians, lawyers, judges, or politicians. It's been attempted before, and it creates a very unfair system. There's a reason why the judicial system works the way it does in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skibby Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 i told a vegan that i would probably eat people if it was legal, or if i ran out of crisps or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 i told a vegan that i would probably eat people if it was legal, or if i ran out of crisps or something. or if they didn't shut up about how you shouldn't eat meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 i told a vegan that i would probably eat people if it was legal, or if i ran out of crisps or something. I know vegans who have said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I took an actual bite out of a vegan and it wasn't very nourishing so I ate a burger later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 i told a vegan that i would probably eat people if it was legal, or if i ran out of crisps or something.But would you eat a vegan though? Edit: o wait, candiru already did the right taste test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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