Veganism

[zlemflolia]

46 minutes ago, goDel said:

Zeff, please tell me you were held hostage and were forced to choose between various bad choices. 

I must say I'd be surprised if veganists even buy anything at a fast-food enterprise like Burger King. If you consider what they're responsible of for doing to animals, throwing any money at such an enterprise should be a no go.

Also, as a non-veganist I must say their ways of doing business trouble me. And when it comes to their burgers, I've rarely had the idea they were using actual meat to begin with. Usually it tastes like some highly engineered substance which is supposed to give people the impression it's a burger, but in reality...well, I'm fairly sure these companies optimize their products for profit. So I'm guessing a lower % of actual (expensive) meat is already business as usual. And people are easily manipulated anyways, so why not? ( McDonalds is worse in this aspect, I believe)

Now, the people from the commercial department of said company found a growing market in the veganist community, so they had to re-engineer their non-food into something which is more in line with what that market wants (and accepts!?). And it would probably help in other markets as well, because they can sell the appearance of being involved in topics like health, climate and the well being of animals. Even though it's still junk food and they're still mostly in the business of selling "meat" burgers on a massive scale. Go figure.

If there was one thing I would appreciate in a veganist, it's the awareness of the origins of the food they eat. It matters to them. Or it should, I guess. I find it hard to believe they'd put their critical thinking aside when such a company tries to sell them burgers without meat. 

 

Corporations should only be punished in ways that prevent or discourage them from doing the things they are doing which are bad.  First off, Impossible Foods is a company that was until recently not even affiliated with Burger King:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_Foods

If you punish them for doing something that's a step in the right direction then they will just step back when they see it doesn't provide profits, and stop doing that good thing.  To some extent you have to vote with your wallet.  

This is not an act supporting Burger King so much as it's an act supporting Impossible Foods, who are researching methods of replacing existing public food ingredients with plant-based ones.  As more is invested into companies like these, the quality will increase, thus the ability for consumers to switch to no longer consuming animal products is also increased, decreasing global meat consumption and significantly increasing the effectiveness of our abilities to harvest energies from plant organisms which convert the sun's energy into calories and nutrients, directly, instead of going indirectly through another organism which consumes these plants and builds animal matter instead.

Nothing will help companies creating such products to replace popular mass market meat trash more than having the companies currently propagating meat trash, propagating plant based foods as well, even if they begin as being hypothetically shitty and not even much more healthy than a real meat burger, or worse - less healthy than a real burger due to the current formulation with too much salt etc.

Veganism is not -only- about personal health but also about the sacrifice required for moving humanity to a more efficient energy consumption culture, since we need to for the coming expansion into being a multi-planetary society, where we can no longer raise animals as easily since they need space and complex molecular biological inputs and outputs.  As in, inputs of plants or the bodies of other animals who eat plants, for animals.  That is a hard scenario to come by, or rather create, in space.  Whereas when growing a plant in an enclosed and space-minimized environment, you would use a hydroponic scenario, then all you need to worry is about the chemical mixture of the root's hydroponic liquid soil replacement, which, when paired with light of the proper spectral properties, and an atmosphere with sufficient co2, results in plants growing and generating energy.  We can store electricity arbitrarily and redirect it to light bulbs, and this aforementioned hydroponic scenario and light paired alongside a proper atmosphere results in the creation of food.  No more is needed past that.

You don't need to feed it to other organisms just so that you can eat those organisms.  That's first off inefficient in terms of harvesting raw energy for bodily sustenance, and secondly immoral since it adds another organism into the life cycle, which is guaranteed to die, and only for the purpose of serving as food for you to eat for a snack.  That's the most absurd violation of what are currently, in the factory farm industry, a bunch of conscious animals lives, that it's incomprehensible to even advocate for it when non-conscious, or at the very least minimally-conscious forms of plant life can instead be eaten, with no suffering required.

If you want to look at it in a plain selfish way, maybe in terms of how humanity will benefit from doing it even when you disregard the animals, is that eating meat can be viewed as a bad dependency upon certain local environmental conditions required to grow animal life for consumption.  It's important to grow beyond that dependency so that we do not require as much.  It's good to remove requirements if they can be removed, or rather replaced, with superior alternatives, as long as they are sufficiently as good as the old method.  But to reach that stage you have to start somewhere.

[Soloman Tump]

On 7/11/2019 at 11:25 PM, darreichungsform said:

Did you eat it afterwards?

 

No, flies can carry diseases.  That would be foolish.

Think of it as akin to eating a mushroom of unknown origins / species... its not worth the gamble.

 

[whosebrian]

Quote

KFC Is Testing Vegan 'Fried Chicken' Using Beyond Meat

A trial run in Atlanta will mark the first use of Beyond's chicken alternative at a major fast food chain.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x5b9d/kfc-is-testing-vegan-fried-chicken-using-beyond-meat

[Silent Member]

Plants have feelings too.

[OneToThirtySix]

4 hours ago, whosebrian said:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x5b9d/kfc-is-testing-vegan-fried-chicken-using-beyond-meat

This will likely collapse, unless they are frying in a different vat than the regular chicken...High-Order vegans will not eat it if it has been fried in the same oil, and I can't imagine it being cost-effective to keep an entire frying vat dedicated to the meat alternative.

 

They also succeeded in making them look as unappetizing as possible.

[whosebrian]

58 minutes ago, OneToThirtySix said:

This will likely collapse, unless they are frying in a different vat than the regular chicken...High-Order vegans will not eat it if it has been fried in the same oil, and I can't imagine it being cost-effective to keep an entire frying vat dedicated to the meat alternative.

 

They also succeeded in making them look as unappetizing as possible.

Quote

The Beyond Fried Chicken nuggets will be cooked in the same fryers since they're meant to target the "flexitarian" market instead of strict vegans.

[OneToThirtySix]

2 minutes ago, whosebrian said:

Missed that part...

 

Still, welcome to yet another half-hearted corporate attempt. 

[Candiru]

‘Bout to chow down on some mothafuckin bbq brisket fuck all y’all 

[zlemflolia]

7 hours ago, OneToThirtySix said:

This will likely collapse, unless they are frying in a different vat than the regular chicken...High-Order vegans will not eat it if it has been fried in the same oil, and I can't imagine it being cost-effective to keep an entire frying vat dedicated to the meat alternative.

 

They also succeeded in making them look as unappetizing as possible.

only shit tier poser vegans complain about non-vegan contamination.  keeping two sets of oil is a waste of resources and doesn't help any animals

[whosebrian]

^ Might as well put some colostrum in the dipping sauce.

[mushroom]

tried an impossible whopper today. tasted like a whopper

[zlemflolia]

At the people putting forward the social contract theory refutation of veganism, here is a contradiction from Rousseau himself:

Quote

In proceeding thus, we shall not be obliged to make man a philosopher before he is a man. His duties toward others are not dictated to him only by the later lessons of wisdom; and, so long as he does not resist the internal impulse of compassion, he will never hurt any other man, nor even any sentient being, except on those lawful occasions on which his own preservation is concerned and he is obliged to give himself the preference.

By this method also we put an end to the time-honoured disputes concerning the participation of animals in natural law: for it is clear that, being destitute of intelligence and liberty, they cannot recognise that law; as they partake, however, in some measure of our nature, in consequence of the sensibility with which they are endowed, they ought to partake of natural right; so that mankind is subjected to a kind of obligation even toward the brutes. It appears, in fact, that if I am bound to do no injury to my fellow-creatures, this is less because they are rational than because they are sentient beings: and this quality, being common both to men and beasts, ought to entitle the latter at least to the privilege of not being wantonly ill-treated by the former."

From "Discourse on the Origins of Inequality" [Preface]

https://www.constitution.org/jjr/ineq_02.htm

[YangYing]

if u value sentience yea, which you don't have to...

[zlemflolia]

30 minutes ago, MIXL2 said:

if u value sentience yea, which you don't have to...

then what exactly do you value? do you value your own sentience?

[Soloman Tump]

How do Vegans feel about cutting the grass?

Shredding all those plants and in the process destroying thousands of insects and their habitats?

 

(serious question, I was thinking about this whilst cutting the grass yesterday)

[zlemflolia]

8 minutes ago, Soloman Tump said:

How do Vegans feel about cutting the grass?

Shredding all those plants and in the process destroying thousands of insects and their habitats?

 

(serious question, I was thinking about this whilst cutting the grass yesterday)

lawns are a first world custom which waste water, energy and effort to mow and maintain them, and which often require weed killer to keep in shape, which is harmful for the environment as a whole as well as native plants and animals.  I am opposed to lawns and am in favor of letting native plants grow but keeping them well-pruned and pulling invasive weeds (but not using weed killer).  I don't speak for anyone but myself but this is the only reasonable position to have, unless you value vain literal Hank Hill boomerism over the biosphere

[Soloman Tump]

26 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

lawns are a first world custom which waste water, energy and effort to mow and maintain them, and which often require weed killer to keep in shape, which is harmful for the environment as a whole as well as native plants and animals.  I am opposed to lawns and am in favor of letting native plants grow but keeping them well-pruned and pulling invasive weeds (but not using weed killer).  I don't speak for anyone but myself but this is the only reasonable position to have, unless you value vain literal Hank Hill boomerism over the biosphere

Fair comments.

Personally I would never use weed killers or chemicals - I pull out nettles as my kids generally just sting themselves which isn't pleasant.

Our garden is generally "wild" - we have poppies, corn marigolds and those tall flowering daisies plus all the common stuff like dandelions, daisies and buttercups.  Plenty of stuff that attracts bee's.  Spotted hedgehog poo this week too - exciting!

Being in a fairly rural area, we tend to get lots of long grass and random crops self seeding in our garden.  Not great for my hayfever.  I tend to pull those out before they flower.

[YangYing]

2 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

2 hours ago, MIXL2 said:

if u value sentience yea, which you don't have to...

then what exactly do you value? do you value your own sentience?

I value my own well-being, n we have already had this argument n I granted that if u value sentience at all then u gotta go vegan if u wanna b morally consistent.

[cwmbrancity]

4 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

I am opposed to lawns

Initially, thought this was too funny to ignore, but I am against golf in all its forms precisely because it requires one large lawn, far out, fuck golf, who plays that shit anyway.

3 hours ago, Soloman Tump said:

Fair comments.

Personally I would never use weed killers or chemicals - I pull out nettles as my kids generally just sting themselves which isn't pleasant.

Our garden is generally "wild" - we have poppies, corn marigolds and those tall flowering daisies plus all the common stuff like dandelions, daisies and buttercups.  Plenty of stuff that attracts bee's.  Spotted hedgehog poo this week too - exciting!

Being in a fairly rural area, we tend to get lots of long grass and random crops self seeding in our garden.  Not great for my hayfever.  I tend to pull those out before they flower.

Gardening this way is such a good chill. Not to get all Monty Don & cardigany, but a few hours a week, keep things as wild as possible & try n reclaim a bit of heaven on earth, gardenias not included.