doublename Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Hit send before finishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I don't know, man, sectarian violence was rampant at the height of US involvement, how can we stop it now? I think the problem with returning to Iraq is the same as any imperial power sticking its nose into someone else's civil war (even when that war is the imperial power's fault more or less), all we are going to do is inflame the existing tensions and, in this case, give the impression of supporting a Shiite govt, handing ISIS the biggest propaganda victory they could ever want. Not to mention we will end up whipping ISIS in Iraq with one hand while feeding them in Syria with the other. I do feel the US has responsibility here (we broke it, we bought it), I'm just not sure military intervention will repair the damage. How do we put a lid back on this? The US couldn't fix one failed state in Afghanistan and now that Iraq is on its way to becoming another, I don't have faith that we can reverse course, especially with a supranational civil war underway. Western powers fucking around with borders, as the Europeans did after WWI, and tribal/sectarian feuds, the way the US is now, only ever ends in bloodshed and chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Saddam Hussein avenged by ISIL Judge Raouf Abdul Rahman, who sentenced Saddam Hussein to death, was captured and killed by former members of the Presidential Guard who joined the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). Originally from Halabja, Judge Abdul Rahman popularized the accusation that President Hussein had allegedly killed his own people with chemical weapons in 1988. Such disinformation was widely resorted to by the United States and Britain to justify the overthrow of President Hussein. In fact, during the Iraq war against Iran, both sides made use of chemical weapons. It was a sudden change in wind during a battle that diverted the Iranian gas towards Halabja, killing at least 5,000 people. This vengeance confirms that the remaining officers of the former presidential guard joined the jihadists to fight together against the al-Maliki government. link lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 basically Sunni retaliation then innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Npoess Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/7/3/7/7374e4d975de4f47/cswdcc77.mp3?c_id=7316301&expiration=1403771219&hwt=52b2d7b224de007b86a73e3dc640e344 ^Dan Carlin has pretty interesting to points about ISIS in this podcast. Normally he's a bit too conspiratorial and extreme for my taste, but he raises some good points I think. Basically that ISIS, could bring stabilization in a country like Iraq that was never meant to have the current borders. And that a united Arab world might not be such a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The US should drop thousands of pig corpses over Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 God save the pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 ISIS could definitely bring stability, once they slit enough of the throats of 11-year-old boys who are just sprouting pubic hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 This is what is happening right now. This is ACTUAL genocide, happening right now. This is so much worse than what is happening in Gaza. So much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_aoLdvSoGo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9JuMZ8spFQ Not as bad as what Israel is doing ofc, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 here is a link to a longer version http://news.msn.com/world/video?videoid=2bfdecd8-28d6-bd10-3bdb-9fe0cecfe467&ap=False&src=v5:share:sharepermalink:&from=sharepermalink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Replies to Israel thread as of now: 489 Gaza Total death toll as of now: close to 1900 Replies to ISIS thread as of now: 38 Iraq Civilian death toll (most recent number): 5500 Moral: people are drawn to controversy more than atrocity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 More like it's just so 'enjoyable' debating eugene, probably. I realize that the ISIS issue has been unjustifiably pushed under the collective radar carpet (I'm very tired, sorry) for longer than it should have been, but the Israel/Palestine conflict is decades and decades of high-profile, endlessly mutually irrational bullshit, and by definition that sort of controversy is going to = lots of discussion. It's also, frankly and clearly, a bit of a modern geopolitical PR war as much as it is bloody and horrific (and it still is that, too.) Nonetheless, the news cycle is swinging pretty hard to the ISIS atrocities right now and the public conception of what's going on there seems to have changed shape dramatically over the last 24-48 hours from "another massive fuckup" to "holy shit this is disgusting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Npoess Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Yeah, I think the reason Isreal/Palestine conflict is getting so much attention in western media is simply the length of the conflict, and the fact that there doesn't seem any progressing outcome or solution to it. But also the consequences the conflict has had western on society over the years: Yum kippur/oil crisis in the 70's 1972 Olympics in Munich 9/11 - muslim anger at the western culture for supporting Isreal (I know it's the main reason, but it's definitely one of the reasons) But this ISIS crisis could turn out to be catastrophic for the western world, so it should be getting more attention. I mean the things I've read about them seems to be Al-Queda times two in terms of ruthlessness, brutality and determination. So it's actually really worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 US Navy has conducted airstrikes to support the Kurdish forces, and the USAF has sent C-17s and C-130s on supply airdrops for the besieged Yazidi refugees. It's the least we can do. As much as I'm glad we finally left this is a critical time to support the government forces of Iraq and the autonomous Kurdish region. Minority groups like the Christians and Yazidi (especially the Yazidi - most other religious groups consider them Satan worshipers) are going to be mercilessly killed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Replies to Israel thread as of now: 489 Gaza Total death toll as of now: close to 1900 Replies to ISIS thread as of now: 38 Iraq Civilian death toll (most recent number): 5500 Moral: people are drawn to controversy more than atrocity thanks for delivering an extremely stupid and tired right-wing radio talk show host constructed talking point to deflect away from what's going on in Gaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Replies to Israel thread as of now: 489 Gaza Total death toll as of now: close to 1900 Replies to ISIS thread as of now: 38 Iraq Civilian death toll (most recent number): 5500 Moral: people are drawn to controversy more than atrocity thanks for delivering an extremely stupid and tired right-wing radio talk show host constructed talking point to deflect away from what's going on in Gaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andihow Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 edit: meh nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Replies to Israel thread as of now: 489 Gaza Total death toll as of now: close to 1900 Replies to ISIS thread as of now: 38 Iraq Civilian death toll (most recent number): 5500 Moral: people are drawn to controversy more than atrocity thanks for delivering an extremely stupid and tired right-wing radio talk show host constructed talking point to deflect away from what's going on in Gaza Uhh, why should Gaza have an exclusive stronghold over human rights issues when something to this extent like w isis is happening simultaneously?? Why are the Free Palestine calls more important than the billion human rights abuses and war crimes around the world perpetrated by extremists/militant groups? Lemme guess, oh theyre all just the occasional loose-screw-in-the-head wackos running around with no real influence right? Oh and furthermore, theyre actually Israeli false flag events right? Perpetrated by the mossad? The real evil in the world is in the developed cities of tel aviv, jerusalem and haifa. The ppl on ben gurion street dancing in clubs and ppl living in kibbutz living side by side with tons of foreigners of all religions, races, and sexual orientation, sharing a diversity of thoughts, politics and ideas is the country we always consistently need to focus our eyes on right? Not the dictatorships and emerging caliphates and their atrocious oppressiveness that encompass much of that continent? No no, its the jewish state man, theyre ya know uhh rockafeller-linked-american-imperialist-capitilizing-land-grabbing-racists. Theyre also like, really really powerful and have a lot of weapons and money so ya know, any civiliam casualties from their defense tactics immediately means genocide.. After all they were propped up by westersn imperialist zionist colonialists, so ya knowtheyre pretty much fair game to be considered one of the great evils of the world. Oh outright persecution of religious groups by the thousands just in weeks alone in the land nearby? Mehh, .. Oh but israel's so much more of a controversial buzzword and yelling free palestine just feels so grassroots and activist-ish note: of course my heart goes out to the children of gaza... and i could only hope that one day they are not ruled by a group like hamas and religious extremists in a 1984-style regime who put them in danger to fulfill their openly admitted goals of an all-islamic region cleansed of their neighboring country who they use as a scapegoat for every ill in the world. No women or children or innocents should have to live like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 for the people protesting against going back to Iraq...what's their solution? wait until the country is overrun by extremists then teach them how to make gluten free vegan chilli with the blood of innocent children? also how come these people are generally against the idea of nations and states but the moment something like this happens, all of a sudden they're in love with borders again? yes it was imperialist to go there in the first place and I absolutely disagree with that decision. this time seems less based on a lie and more based on helping people in serious danger, so I think circumstances are a little different. the country has been fucked over and ransacked already so at this stage it's closer to damage control. intervention has bad connotations of imperialism due to the devious motives of those in charge and the patronising of other cultures in the process. call me naive, but in this case I view it as the world agreeing that a situation has gone too far and it is unfairly affecting too many people, if we are in a position to help others in need how can we say no? and by 'we' I don't just mean western nations, I mean any society thay is able to look at this and say 'no. this is wrong and I cannot let these people take over' bush and cheney's iraq war was a travesty and they should all be thrown in prison. it's absolutely disgusting that such a blatent lie was able to sustain a war that existed only to benefit and further the interests of those in power. I feel like this situation already has enough factors that prove this is an entirely different scenario, and perhaps a chance to win back some trust amongst people who have every right to be wary of us forces. I'm aware that forces in the area have made some effort in preventing the gains Isis have made and I'm not suggesting intervention by foreign nations is necessarily the only solution, I just haven't heard any from the people protesting. I have however legit heard many 'true lefty' people insist this is Iraq's problem and it's up to them to deal with it without any input from uncle scam and his tentatcles of oppressive capitalist misery. it blows my mind how backwards they have it. so the us fucks things up by mismanaging a war that wasn't even a war and now they don't have any responsibility to deal with the fallout? that's some real deep world view you have there. by the way, I say all this as devil's advocate. I'm a very left wing person but I don't like when people think they have to feel a certain way about something because others around them do. every situation like this requires critical and rational thinking and a structured analysis of the facts. reclaim these concepts from the tory's because they've been pricks about how 'rational' they are for too long (PS how's that christian god you believe in working out, american republicans who claim to be rational thinkers) weird post. it's america's responsibility to militarily create peace there? that's your deep world view? iraq was created by outside forces, the paris peace talks of 1919. iraq is not a self-created country. breaking up into 3 countries might not be bad course, if isis weren't such a vile entity. you think we should send americans to preserve some arbitrary border determined whimsically by europeans in the immediate aftermath of world war 1? now the us is engaging in air strikes. why? because iraq asked. america has been wanting iraq to want its help, and now it does. the anti-american sentiment in the region is thick, so any american action should be very careful, and requested, as is being done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheatheman Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It is the world's responsibility. We should have already organised a huge rescue effort for the Nigerian girls Boko Haram captured (who as of this moment are living in constant fear, enduring rape and torture, have already seen several of their "sisters" killed, and are currently on the slave market for $12.50 a head). Boko Haram is like ISIS. They both want to establish an Islamic State. Even now that the US has carried out air strikes, they are with strategic interest, and not to the immediate benefit of the Yazidi and Christians who are being exterminated. Will we allow Islamic Statists to gain enough power and numbers so that they are able to start killing on the scale of the holocaust? All this while the whole world hates Israel because they are the only ones actually standing up to the evil of Militant Islam/Islamic Statism? Get your heads checked. All of this is connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghOsty Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Man, they've really changed their approach since Wavering Radiant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 They beheaded 4 children. I don't know what to say. How can a conscious human being, even an uneducated religious fanatic, think his imaginary god would approve of killing kids, and still reward him by going to heaven? This world is lost. http://nypost.com/2014/12/12/christian-leader-isis-savages-behead-four-children/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 woah I luckily wiped from my memory how stupidly right wing and fear mongery a large swatch of watmm became over the past few years. deeply embarassing. This thread and what it signifies is in some ways more disturbing than ISIS itselfedit: RDJ if you're reading this thread, I don't blame you for never wanting to be part of this shit show again, I apologize on behalf of the entire forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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