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LimpyLoo

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  1. LimpyLoo
    you definitely do have a point but also remember that i indeed think that elephants, apes and probably ravens are conscious i used to take these sorts of questions for granted until i started reading about the current state of AI research: when will we know if/when machines are conscious? (we already make machines that exhibit emotions and/or intelligence)
  2. LimpyLoo
    You guys should open up all the windows and air this thread about Because it's getting pretty dank up in here Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  3. LimpyLoo
    key word presumably. i cant see how something can have a feeling and not be conscious what's not empirical about pet videos? a hundred years ago courts of law decided whether or not hawaians were caucasian based on evidence such as "everyone knows that hawaians arent caucasian." if i can watch a video and say it is evidence supporting animal consciousness and someone else can too, that is empirical. i found it interesting when i got jury duty and they taught us about this term "threshold of proof." in criminal cases the charge must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but in civil cases it only needs to be more likely true than not true (shockingly). it seems like you are trying to bring an astronomical threshold of proof into this 1) this is all down to conceptual analysis (which is an annoying process): I don't necessarily mean that plants "feel pain" I mean that outwardly they have a response that mimics a pain response Are plants actually having an experience? I don't know, and neither does anyone else 2) There appears to be another misunderstanding: I mean 'empirical' in the Kantian sense, not in the everyday science sense (E.g. You have empirical knowledge of your own consciousness, but not mine) I've tried twice already to delineate the distinction but I must just be a bad communicator or something I'm talking about types of knowledge and information (I am not talking about quantity or quality of evidence): You can deduce that I am conscious through observing my behavior (synthetic knowledge) But you can't directly observe my consciousness itself, the way you can observe your own (empirical knowledge) I feel like I must just be terrible with language or something as we can't seem to understand each other on this point Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  4. LimpyLoo
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  5. LimpyLoo
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/indonesian-muslims-counter-isis_565c737ae4b072e9d1c26bda Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  6. LimpyLoo
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  7. LimpyLoo
    Some news: 1) Planned Parenthood: defunded 2) Sunni Muslim movement vows to fight Islamism 3) Scott Weiland: dead Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  8. LimpyLoo
    p.s. slime mold can not only solve mazes, but find the shortest path
  9. LimpyLoo
    intelligence is found without consciousness e.g. "swarm intelligence," whereby swarms of ants or bees or whatever exhibit intelligence that no single ant or bee possesses alone the way all the neurons in your brain produce your intelligence, though that intelligence is not found in individual neurons far in excess of what you or I could do (are swarms conscious?) and as i said, slime mold can solve mazes there are mentally disabled humans who couldn't solve such a maze (scaled to human-size, of course) emotion is found without consciousness our emotions pertain to our preferences they are physiological responses to how the world treats our preferences (I love my cat > my cat dies > i am sad; I am indifference to the well-being of my sock > my sock gets destroyed > i feel nothing; i hate Hitler > someone makes fun of Hitler > I laugh and enjoy the joke) lots of (presumably) non-conscious beings exhibit this for instance, plants feel pain and "scream" if you kill one of their buddies is the plant having a conscious experience of pain and horror? or is it simply a reflex? (p.s. as a vegetarian-for-ethical-reasons, you can imagine how fucking horrified I am by these findings)
  10. LimpyLoo
    edit: 3) the basic tenets of logic and philosophy are: -define the terms being used (to avoid misunderstanding) -avoid logical 'leaps' and assumptions (e.g. intelligence and emotion, therefor consciousness) again, we agree on the ultimate conclusion but we have to be careful and rigorous about how we reach that conclusion (lest we believe false things)
  11. LimpyLoo
    Did I do something to piss you off personally? I'm not sure why you're attacking me like that. At any rate, since the "p-zombie" idea is clearly hypothetical (ie. doesn't exist) there is no problem there. Empirical data will get you a lot farther in this matter than imagining what's going on in the mind of other animals. Watch their behavior and measure intention. You know, science 'n shit. 1) no no i think you're awesome sorry if my post is snarky...it's not meant to be mean-spirited at all perhaps a gentle nudge to the ol' rib, but definitely not malicious (see me post from last night about my being autistic regarding the tone of my posts) 2) there is no empirical data, that's what i've been saying it's like we're trying to figure out if someone has a disease, but we don't know the disease's symptoms you can try to deduce/infer that I am conscious (Kant's 'synthetic knowledge') but you can't directly observe that I am ('empirical knowledge') if you assume that intelligence or emotion are 'symptoms' of consciousness well then you need to support those assumptions (they are not self-supporting)
  12. LimpyLoo
    i think that was posted last page but yeah, that is some shameful shit what happens when enough people feel that the government is deeply shady, untrustworthy and illegitimate?
  13. LimpyLoo
    Any chance you wanna post a friendly TL;DR of your shitpost? (I'm assuming it's directed at me, based on my quantity of recent posts in here and their potentially-controversial content) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  14. LimpyLoo
    Stop badmouthing gumbo you monster Also, things are getting better inch by inch...like crawling a 4k marathon, we'll get there eventually Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  15. LimpyLoo
    That is...amazing (There's definitely some grand Richard Bach-esque lesson there, not quite sure what) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  16. LimpyLoo
    Pat Buchanon (sp?) is also on Fox now My upstairs neighbor used to belong to the KKK I swear to god whenever I bump into him he wants to talk about how big black people's lips are He is very comfortable saying things like 'too many n*****s these days' He is one of the top 3 worst people I've ever met He opened my eyes to how commonplace monsters are And of course he's a proud Republican and gun maniac Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  17. LimpyLoo
    Yeah I mean that's the nitty gritty of the problem right there This is a huge open problem in AI research: how will we know if a machine we create is conscious? We can already create machines that exhibit emotion and intelligence...are they conscious? (This may seem like a minor curiosity, but the moral implications are huge: if we create billions of robots to do painful menial work--and then tear them apart when they break--we damn well should figure out if they are actually having conscious experience or not) And like many open problems in science and philosophy, I think the 'p-zombie' matter is inherently unsolvable. You've hit on the problem why. You may simply never know (and never be able to know) for certain whether I am conscious or not... But first, we haven't even figured out how the brain produces consciousness: is it created by a specialized 'module'? Or does it automatically emerge from intelligence and/or complexity? We have no fucking clue at the moment (although there are some theories kicking around) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  18. LimpyLoo
    Whoa, great page y'all Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  19. LimpyLoo
    I forgot to mention the (already) San Bernardino false flaggers and hoaxers Amazing...truly amazing Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  20. LimpyLoo
    Holy shit: Disgraced, racist felon Mark Fuhrman is a commentator for Fox (When asked at OJ Simpson trial if he had ever falsified police reports he pleaded the fifth to avoid further perjury charges...stay classy) Anyway, he's currently complaining about political correctness in the shooting coverage Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  21. LimpyLoo
    I've been killing hordes of cockroaches in my apartment for the last two weeks (I really hate to kill a living creature, but there's really no other solution) They have a fear/stress response when you approach them Are cockroaches conscious? Or are they what PKD called 'reflex machines'? Plants have the same response (seriously) If you have two plants, and you start bashing one with a baseball bat, the other will have an extreme physiological response Does that mean the plant is having an experience like you or me? Or is that merely a reflex of some sort? I am not saying you guys are wrong (Hell, I ultimately agree with you) I swear I'm not trying to be needlessly contrarian I'm just saying that inferring consciousness from intelligence or emotion requires assumptions that are not rock solid The much simpler solution is Bayesian inference ('he is probably conscious because it would be silly to think that I'm the only truly conscious being in the universe'...or something to that effect) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  22. LimpyLoo
    Sometimes I read my posts--the friendly ones--and I get paranoid that they will seem angry or annoyed when people read them in their head Am I alone? (I think my avatar makes it seem that I'm always being pissy or snarky) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  23. LimpyLoo
    What do you mean he's silent? He addressed the entire nation on the San Bernardino shooting. Stephen and Mesh I know Obama gave an address I am literally just describing what people are saying The religion thing: As I said, the named suspect's father said he was a deeply devout Muslim Now, that might not be a factor But I will gladly bet money that it is (if you think I'm wrong, you're welcome to oblige and take my money) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  24. LimpyLoo
    The Twitter stuff on the shooting is amazing and horrifying (I've never watched a Twitter hashtag feed before) The 'Obama is silent because he's a Muslim' stuff The insane right-wingers who love guns and prayer The lefties saying this has nothing to do with religious beliefs The sensitive celebrities with their 'text such-and-such to this number' causes The pastors and the Ann coulter-types and the cultural relativists and the gamers and the (third wave) feminists and the 'this is the fault of U.S. foreign policy' and the weird 'this is a good time to interject this random observation about society' people... From an anthropological pov, Twitter rivals Egyptology for its amazingness Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  25. LimpyLoo
    I dont want video but do you have a link to the article? I didn't read any article Someone just posted the video on vine or wherever and I watched it Apparently the cops' accounts of the shooting contradict the video (as usual) Oh, there was another shooting (forget where)...4 dead Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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