That Wikileaks video

[awepittance]

Daniel Ellseberg made a good point today that Assange isn't in the clear necessarily because of how much spotlight is on him right now. He recounted a sotry where after he had leaked the Pentagon papers Nixon planned to send 5 cuban nationals after him at a public speech he was making near the whitehouse. Their orders were to 'incapacitate' him. Fortunately it never actually happened, but shit I'd be scared as hell if i were him.

[awepittance]

Lamo on the hot seat at a hacker conference that Julian Assange was supposed to be a keynote speaker at (Julian declined to appear since federal agents were planning to detain him at said conference)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ7vbcKFVuM

[Guest Drahken]

I dunno if any of you saw the Wired article the other day about Lamo consulting with Chet Uber of Project Vigilant about whether or not to turn Manning in. The article, unsurprisingly, again framed Lamo in a positive light and also suggested that Lamo had received documents from Manning. Lamo claims this is not the case, but he waited over 24 hours and well after the article was published before stating this, despite Wired asking him for comment the night before publishing, an opportunity he passed up supposedly because he wanted to run it by his handlers first.

 

Cryptome seems to have exposed Project Vigilant as a fraud. The plot thickens.

 

http://cryptome.org/0002/vigilant-fraud.htm

 

This whole thing smells of some kind of deliberate attempt to ensnare Manning, probably in hopes of smoking Assange out. (although my opinion of Assange isn't any higher than Lamo, both seem like pretty unscrupulous individuals.)

[kaini]

heard about this 'insurance file'?

 

wikileaks posted an encrypted file called insurance, i'm sure if anything happens to assange, the key will be released.

[Guest Drahken]

I speculate that by the end of 2010 Assange will seek citizenship in Iceland to avoid any fallout. Personally I'm not very fond of him or his methodology. While the intent and purpose of Wikileaks is great, its horribly misguided and mismanaged. Assange likes to play the whistle blower card, but considering he founded the site using data he essentially siphoned from other people over the Tor network its hard to really back him as a whistle blower looking out for the greater good. Especially when you factor in his political motivations and lack of transparency, or the secretive "review" process for the stuff they do eventually publish. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he used a great deal of the information floated his way for leveraging his own positions which is completely contrary to the point of being an intermediary for legitimately concerned whistle blowers.

[Dale]

I speculate that by the end of 2010 Assange will seek citizenship in Iceland to avoid any fallout. Personally I'm not very fond of him or his methodology. While the intent and purpose of Wikileaks is great, its horribly misguided and mismanaged. Assange likes to play the whistle blower card, but considering he founded the site using data he essentially siphoned from other people over the Tor network its hard to really back him as a whistle blower looking out for the greater good. Especially when you factor in his political motivations and lack of transparency, or the secretive "review" process for the stuff they do eventually publish. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he used a great deal of the information floated his way for leveraging his own positions which is completely contrary to the point of being an intermediary for legitimately concerned whistle blowers.

Of course what Wikileaks puts out there is seen as "political". The while idea of putting out things for the sake of transparency is to allow the public to act on the information in order for things like foreign policy, government legislation/activities etc.. to be challenged if leaks reveal that morally and ethically something a particular government advocates is not promoting human well being or human concern or even human progression. I don't necessaily see Assange projecting his own personal view points into the leaks produced. He makes it clear in interviews that the promise given to a whistleblower is to gain maximum political impact within mainstream media. This is something whistleblowers want to see and hear from Wikileaks before handing over sensitive information or data -- otherwise they can just request that Assange and the guys at Wikileaks shut up about promotion and just get things out there -- the intention is maximum political impact all the way.

[Guest Drahken]

Political impact against who though? Being able to cherry pick who suffers the repercussions of a leak is what I take issue with. Shouldn't the point be to make things transparent regardless of political affiliation so that the masses can ultimately decide? Do you think he'd release information that puts his politician friends from Iceland in a negative light? I highly doubt it, even if the information implicated them in the same kind of shenanigans other releases have illustrated.

 

I just don't see the need for Assange to run things the way he does, let alone the donations he solicits for, when a site like Cryptome and run for over a decade now without any of that hooha and still protect their sources.

 

And let us not forget the irony of how he started his site by stealing data from the Tor network, a network intended to protect the privacy of individuals who use it to move sensitive information.

[Dale]

Political impact against who though? Being able to cherry pick who suffers the repercussions of a leak is what I take issue with. Shouldn't the point be to make things transparent regardless of political affiliation so that the masses can ultimately decide? Do you think he'd release information that puts his politician friends from Iceland in a negative light? I highly doubt it, even if the information implicated them in the same kind of shenanigans other releases have illustrated.

You seem to forget that this is exactly what the sources want. Why else do they turn to Wikileaks? They want maximum impact in the press of course. This isn't Assange demanding media attention, it's an agreement between the source and Wikileaks that if the source provides them with the info, Wikileaks as an organisation is responsible for not only protecting their source, but to also get a lot of attention in the media. What does this create? Political hype > it's an inevitability and it is built into the system of leaking to Wikileaks. Political hype is a known consequence, on the part of both the source and Wikileaks. It's what they both agree to.

I don't know the exact processes Wikileaks undertake when examining and cross referencing info given to them. Admittedly, I think it was not a good idea to leak the Afghan War Logs without going through every single document first to make sure personal info is not given out to avoid such unnecessary repercussions, but Assange explained that he contacted the White House to ask them to check the logs for personal info on US military staff, however, not surprisingly, they refused to cooperate and now we see the US mainstream media blaming Wikileaks! and stating Assange now has "US soldier's blood on his hands" when in fact they offered to get the White House on board with the examination of the files (this is how hypocritical and childish American media has become in order for them to get the general public on side and to perpetuate the illegal Afghan military occupation).

[chenGOD]

Possible manhunt for Assange - If this is true, this is something worth freaking over

[Dale]

Possible manhunt for Assange - If this is true, this is something worth freaking over

yeah I spotted this on the twitter feed which Assange manages.

As soon as western Governments cooperate - and stop the movements of Assange, he'll be unable to further mediate/amplify future leaks as he relies on his nomadic travels a lot to stay out of being in one location, and trying to get out there to attend interviews worldwide. Yes it's worrying, though I think the US government are having a hard time stopping Wikileaks in their tracks. If they could disrupt their operations, they would have been able to do it by now. I think their hesitant to go down the legal route as it looks like Wikileaks is protected by some legal legislation in Scandinavia? If anyone can clarify how Wikileaks are protected legally, it would be good to hear your thoughts..

[beariksson]

Wikileaks Julian Assange wanted for rape of two in Sweden

 

seems fishy

[Hoodie]

and now the warrant was cancelled: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316

 

a fail on an international basis.

 

edit: argh, i also fail. didn't see the other thread.

[awepittance]

Since i don't want to bump a wikileaks thread anymore with such a smeary subject heading ill post in here instead

 

FLASHBACK: Scot Ritter, former UN Weapons inspector who broke from the flock and said 'there are no wmds in iraq' was falsely accused of raping children and smear campaign in the news

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j012203.html

[kcinsu]

I never heard that whole mess before... Infuriating.

[Redruth]

the whole bush administration should be tried for war crimes, no question about it.

unfortunately it doesn't solve anything

corporations more than likely pushed for the war to gain profits from oil + resources + military contracts in the Middle East (Halliburton, Blackwater etc..) and the Government generally do as they are told

we could stop giving them money - that would be a good first step. lets stop bankrolling these fucking bastards - most of us are helping to fund these fuckers whether we know it or not.

lets start learning how to take care of ourselves without buying all their crap and paying their taxes!

[chenGOD]

best not to use computers then, as there is oil in every single one made. Don't use modern libraries either, oil was used in the construction of the building and the transportation of the books. Don't buy clothes that haven't been made locally, or furniture. Don't buy CDs or records either. CDs have plastic in them, which involves oil. Vinyl is straight up plastic. Record players usually have plastic in them as well, made from - oil.

Alright enough of the oil rant chen. troon said stop bankrolling these bastards (who exactly?)

Don't participate in any form of international commerce then, as that will undoubtedly at some level benefit a multi-national corporation. Don't leave your commune by any means except on foot (barefoot, hand woven hurache sandals or hemp sandals are acceptable for footwear).

So you have your own garden/farm - make sure you only grow produce that is native to the area - no more mangoes/guava/papaya or other produce that was introduced and became affordable through increasingly efficient international trade.

 

How about instead of eschewing industry and capitalism you lot make a concerted effort to change the political system?

[Blir]

best not to use computers then, as there is oil in every single one made. Don't use modern libraries either, oil was used in the construction of the building and the transportation of the books. Don't buy clothes that haven't been made locally, or furniture. Don't buy CDs or records either. CDs have plastic in them, which involves oil. Vinyl is straight up plastic. Record players usually have plastic in them as well, made from - oil.

Alright enough of the oil rant chen. troon said stop bankrolling these bastards (who exactly?)

Don't participate in any form of international commerce then, as that will undoubtedly at some level benefit a multi-national corporation. Don't leave your commune by any means except on foot (barefoot, hand woven hurache sandals or hemp sandals are acceptable for footwear).

So you have your own garden/farm - make sure you only grow produce that is native to the area - no more mangoes/guava/papaya or other produce that was introduced and became affordable through increasingly efficient international trade.

 

How about instead of eschewing industry and capitalism you lot make a concerted effort to change the political system?

 

Oh, Chen! Stop being such a buzz kill!

[Guest Gbiscuit]

But change is hard!

 

Also, I forgot this video was this long which makes this redundant. Oh durp.

[Redruth]

best not to use computers then, as there is oil in every single one made. Don't use modern libraries either, oil was used in the construction of the building and the transportation of the books. Don't buy clothes that haven't been made locally, or furniture. Don't buy CDs or records either. CDs have plastic in them, which involves oil. Vinyl is straight up plastic. Record players usually have plastic in them as well, made from - oil.

Alright enough of the oil rant chen. troon said stop bankrolling these bastards (who exactly?)

Don't participate in any form of international commerce then, as that will undoubtedly at some level benefit a multi-national corporation. Don't leave your commune by any means except on foot (barefoot, hand woven hurache sandals or hemp sandals are acceptable for footwear).

So you have your own garden/farm - make sure you only grow produce that is native to the area - no more mangoes/guava/papaya or other produce that was introduced and became affordable through increasingly efficient international trade.

 

How about instead of eschewing industry and capitalism you lot make a concerted effort to change the political system?

 

 

ok chen - there are actually viable alternatives for everything you have mentioned that could be achieved transitionally if we

just put energy towards creating the solutions together. computers can be made out of hemp composite plastics and graphene chips.

construction practices for libraries can slowly be changed and transportation for books and other commodities such as the tropical

fruits and vegetables you mentioned can be switched to rail and alternative fuel transport with the vehicles and such being made

out of composite plant based plastics with a small amount of metal for rails or whatever. i think buying local clothes and furniture

is a great idea that is easily achieved and we could use bamboo composites and sustainable harvesting of trees for all our textile

and furniture needs - bamboo can be as strong or stronger then wood and is amazingly fast growing - it also grows in huge

sizes - some of which are as big around as large trees. there is really no need for oil - we use oil because of the control of

supply and demand that it provides for companys to make their monies and because alot of humans are really stupid - lol.

anyway so moving on - all music and other forms of media can be made out of hemp and plant based composit plastics so

no problem there and digital files are virtually waste free.

 

by bankrolling i mean supporting any form of business practice that is not at least actively transitioning to plant based toxic free practices.

we vote with our daily expenditures and until we make an exclusive pact with ourselves and each other to only put money towards things that really

check out and support the starting of new resources and businesses which provide more products that truly check out that we need then

things will really never change. we need to build a new economy on all the above ideals as well as others (there is much more to all this of course).

if we build on the existing foundation which is flawed then the integrity of the whole structure is jeopardized and will continue to break down due to its weak parts.

this includes the current political system which is so obviously flawed. a new system would need to be put in place that's

built on an enlightened structure that is far different from what we are working with now. something akin to

democracy and socialism combined with a hint of the old tribal structure of elders and wise men and women.

 

i like alot of what you included in your post chen - your words on communes and walking and sandals and gardens

even if they seem absurd to many of us - a hybrid of theses ideas come to terms with slowly and transitionally over time

might appeal to many eventually. i think what most are scared of is what they would have to give up or do without and if

you take that issue away then what is there to be scared of really? if we take the time to develop the enlightened technology

we need to make healthy, friendly alternatives to everything we have now then whats the problem? we have the technology!

 

i always think back to years in my past chen. it wasn't so long ago that many of the things that are regular parts

of my lifestyle now seemed like the most absurd ideas - things that i would never have done in a million years - it's amazing

how time, transitional reality (taking one small step at a time) and necessity can become amazing tools to help

us come to terms with what appear to be difficult things. then before we know it what used to be difficult becomes

naturalized and we are comfortable and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

humans are strange with their initial reaction to things - but this usually passes and we become more open.

 

[eugene]

or alternatively you can try to get rich and party hard for the rest of your ~50 years, wooohoo !!

 

 

please refrain from using "we" all the time troon, it's infuriating

 

[Redruth]

or alternatively you can try to get rich and party hard for the rest of your ~50 years, wooohoo !!

 

 

please refrain from using "we" all the time troon, it's infuriating

 

We™

 

 

we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams

 

[chenGOD]

yet you keep using these plastic based computers troon. you're funding them. you, personally.

do you boycott your library? do you refuse to eat foods like mangoes/lychees/papaya etc? if you don't practice what you preach, you're just a goddamned hypocrite.

 

also please, no mention of tribal structures in modern society.

[Redruth]

so everyone who try's to break free from falseness in their lives and is in conscious, genuine transition is a hypocrite?

 

learning from the past tribal cultures is irrelevant?

 

[chenGOD]

Tribal structure for government worked well in tribes. We don't live in tribes anymore, so to apply their form of governance to a modern society would be a step backwards.

 

And yes, until you practice what you preach, you're a hypocrite. Stop using oil based resources.

[lumpenprol]

what about oil-based lubricant?

 

Hey troon, what sort of lube is earth-conscious?