lumpenprol Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 There are some pretty obvious visual and even structural homages to Kubrick in TWWB, especially 2001. I'd almost feel stupid pointing them out, because they're so obviously intentional. such a dirty filthy tease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (this is one's the lowest-hanging fruit, but compare the setting of the final scenes and pacing/cutting in TWBB to the final scenes in 2001, and the almost parodic contrast in subject matter, with Plainview basically regressing whilst the Star Child evolves; cf also the opening shots, shots of the monolith vs. oil derrick, ligeti vs. Greenwood, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Aww, I didn't notice, makes me a bit sad tbh, I don't like parody, satire, or homage very much...but it is kinda funny too. And it's nice you can appreciate the film on its own merits without noticing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirezzi Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I see. You're a fan of completely original works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think there's plenty to distinguish the two films, but PTW seems to be visually echoing 2001 to add another layer of meaning to the narrative: you could call it parody in the lit-crit sense: it's really more of an inversion of the themes of transcendence in 2001. Plainview's atavism and "I'm finshed" vs. opening up of possibilities. It's like a black mass 2001. Fortunately, it's not really heavy-handed. It's just a subtle background symbolic ordering, and it's mostly ambiguous enough that I'm sure a lot of people won't agree with my reading. As it should be. edit: I wrote 2011. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I see. You're a fan of completely original works? har-di-har. It's just...unnecessary. Of course everyone has influences. I think there's plenty to distinguish the two films, but PTW seems to be visually echoing 2001 to add another layer of meaning to the narrative: you could call it parody in the lit-crit sense: it's really more of an inversion of the themes of transcendence in 2001. Plainview's atavism and "I'm finshed" vs. opening up of possibilities. It's like a black mass 2001. Fortunately, it's not really heavy-handed. It's just a subtle background symbolic ordering, and it's mostly ambiguous enough that I'm sure a lot of people won't agree with my reading. As it should be. edit: I wrote 2011. Twice. Yeah, I think you hit it spot on...I get it. It's not obnoxious, more like a video game "easter egg". It's a bit funny considering that the despite this "downfall of man" theme, Lewis' performance is so bristling with vital energy and tongue-in-cheek humor that the film seems much warmer and more human than 2001. But perhaps that's PTL's point. There's something inherently bloodless about transcending the human and becoming a big ol' space baby, whereas watching someone succumb to their demons in a pretty funny way is all-too-human and relate-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 with TWBB and 2001 i agree one thing was the evolution of the oil technology over time. in fact, the oil becomes the Monolith. every time a major oil move occurs, technology goes forwards. from pickaxe to extraction to towers and multiple towers, eventually leading to murder. very interesting. that's a really shallow reading but i thought of it when I saw the movie the first or second time. i wonder if there is a Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirezzi Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 har-di-har. It's just...unnecessary. Of course everyone has influences. I was just teasing you. I think the direct lift wink-wink nudge-nudge moments in films can definitely be hamfisted / cloying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 there will be blood is a fav. i think Dano sounded a bit too modern. He could have perfected his accent. I doubt people sounded like him back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I can't hate on Dano because I think he tried really hard. But he still fell short. Agree with you about his speech/accent, and also, he simply lacked the charisma to inspire his flock (to be fair, I can't think of any other young actor who could have pulled it off...pretty impossible role). In the pathetic/craven department he did just fine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktait2 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 He did ok, but in his defence he had little time to prepare for playing Eli. I think the story is that PTA originally had Dano playing only the brother, Paul (the one who first approaches Daniel). After they started filming he asked Dano to play both brothers. At first it really fucked me up, because I wasn't sure if they were identical twins, with Paul leaving the family to make it on his own; or crazy option B. Crazy option B being that Eli took on a separate persona in some sort of guilt ridden denial as a means to fund his church, possibly because he thought what he was doing was blasphemous in some respect. It's been awhile but I remember Daniel coming off as a bit confused when he runs into Eli for the first time; and I don't think brother Paul ever comes up in conversation unless it's between Eli and Daniel which felt odd; the fact that they're twins is not mentioned once. Also, Eli seems to have a good knowledge of the oil on the land; immediately seeing through Daniel's rouse of 'quail' prices, knowing his real intentions. I don't think it's a stretch considering Eli's confessions of 'I've done bad things' at the end; and he's generally insane. Now that's some David Icke shit. Edit, now I remember now Daniel mentions Paul having a few wells himself, and doing well at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 yeah dano wasn't supposed to play eli. it was another actor who was apparently intimidated by ddl and couldn't hack it. i'm not sure anyone else would have done it better. i don't like paul dano at all but he worked for me in that film. i remember mr salads posting an early review of this film right when it came out and saying there was one thing about it that was so unforgivable that it threw the entire movie for him. i would love to know what that was. it was some narrative issue that wasn't clarified, or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirezzi Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think he didn't like Dano, either, and I can say for sure that for me, Dano was about 80% of my problem with it. That's okay, because I can likely look beyond that with a 2nd viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirezzi Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 He did ok, but in his defence he had little time to prepare for playing Eli. I think the story is that PTA originally had Dano playing only the brother, Paul (the one who first approaches Daniel). After they started filming he asked Dano to play both brothers. At first it really fucked me up, because I wasn't sure if they were identical twins, with Paul leaving the family to make it on his own; or crazy option B. Crazy option B being that Eli took on a separate persona in some sort of guilt ridden denial as a means to fund his church, possibly because he thought what he was doing was blasphemous in some respect. It's been awhile but I remember Daniel coming off as a bit confused when he runs into Eli for the first time; and I don't think brother Paul ever comes up in conversation unless it's between Eli and Daniel which felt odd; the fact that they're twins is not mentioned once. Also, Eli seems to have a good knowledge of the oil on the land; immediately seeing through Daniel's rouse of 'quail' prices, knowing his real intentions. I don't think it's a stretch considering Eli's confessions of 'I've done bad things' at the end; and he's generally insane. Now that's some David Icke shit. Edit, now I remember now Daniel mentions Paul having a few wells himself, and doing well at the end. I was initially confused by Paul and Eli too. After watching it for the first time I thought they were the same person (I might not have been paying enough attention during Paul's intro), but upon second viewing it became the most/only jarring aspect of the film. I can't help but think despite the convenience of Dano playing brothers and essentially being promoted in-film, that PTA might have been playing with identity a bit. You could argue that such a broad stroke isn't necessary to set Eli up as a charlatan. He's perfectly fine at doing that by himself. But the Paul/Eli problem does instantly make you wary towards Dano. He's instantly disingenuous and dislikeable because he's broken the film after that epic introductory scene. It might be nothing but a superficial choice, but like the 'references' to 2001 above, it only adds to a solid and enjoyable film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Dang Overlook, for a Dano hater you sure dug up a bunch of pics of him...have to say the "compulsive masterbater" one would fit right in on watmm He does look really smarmy and like he has a stick inserted in his rectum, but that's probably a good thing - he could have a solid career being typecast in the Paul Reiser/James Spader mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benedict Cumberbatch Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 so Hard Eight....what's y'all saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 is good yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goffer Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I see. You're a fan of completely original works? har-di-har. It's just...unnecessary. Of course everyone has influences. I'm usually the same but can appreciate when it's done in a subtle way... and not just name dropping like how Woody Allen does it (I love Allen, don't get me wrong, but sometimes he's a bit trying with his intellectualism). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I thought Paul Dano was really impressive in TWBB. He pulls off the meek and humble soft spoken preacher along with the batshit fire and brimstone side. Softening his flock for the kill the way Plainview schmoozes everyone with his speeches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vodor Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 hard eight is my favorite PT film and one of my top 5 favorite films ever. the last shot of the sleeve is transcendent and sublime and brilliant, etc. the chapel scene in TWBB is definitely funny. dano-guy is just trying to embarrass daniel and daniel is angry at dano-guy and that he has to play along to save face. he's not truly sad about his kid. he's embarrassed. i thought dano was fine, but i think it was a huge mistake to include and not address the twin-ness of the dano brothers. that and "brother from another mother" are 2 of the main flaws, imo. and the score during the mud scene. i remember posting all of this on watmm before so i'll shutup now. hey everyone. i miss you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 is greenwood doing the score for his next one too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'm gonna troll a bit and say I wasn't super stoked about the Greenwood score. Yes, I thought he was headed in an interesting direction, but ultimately I thought it only got part of the way there. It was a bit too jarring and intrusive much of the time. Not terrible, but not as good and memorable as say, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly score. Which also seems weird when you analyze it (the screams and ullulating), but has ended up becoming the prototypical western score. I know it's apples and oranges to compare the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 is greenwood doing the score for his next one too? imdb says "yep" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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