Air is burning in Shanghai

[Adieu]

 

 

and in the meantime, our politicians over here in the US will be passing stricter and stricter regulations that are impossible to meet while remaining profitable, driving more production to places like china, and those same politicians for some reason have no problem with us buying that stuff that was made in what they consider to be inhumane or unsafe conditions here. like it's ok to support those conditions if they are taking place somewhere else, i guess.

 

fucking lol

 

yeah over-regulation puts a strain on the job creators

makes it harder to pollute the rivers

 

fucking right-wing propaganda bullshit

 

*vomits*

 

ok but your sarcasm that apparently indicates that you don't think regulations make it any tougher at all for a business to operate, just completely ignores the hypocrisy of the mostly democrat politicians who push to get these regulations passed but then do absolutely nothing to try to dissuade countries like china from going way beyond the practices they want to regulate here. these politicians see dollar signs in green energy which they invest in and which happens to benefit from those regulations that are passed on the competition, as well as from the grants given to the green energy types in exchange for handsome campaign contributions. plenty of those green energy companies then end up bankrupt but surely the ceos got their cut. but if these politicians really think the world is going to end because of some pollution, why wouldn't they use the america's position as a consumer as leverage to get countries like china to play according to the same rules? are you, or are these politicians too dumb to not understand that tons of pollution being pumped into the planet would have the same long term affects regardless of where it's happening? no, i don't think anyone is that dumb. so i have to assume they really aren't so committed to their supposed goals, don't i? otherwise they'd cut back on trade with china to make them feel pressure to abide by similar regulations. until they do that or support motions to make it happen, no american politican who talks about pollution destroying our future will be seen as anything less than a hypocrite, lying, asshole, who is probably making tons of money from 'green energy'. if there's a flaw in my logic here please do point it out.

let me just summarize it first though.

a) politicians think pollution is going to kill us so they pass regulations that benefit competitors, which often those same politicians can be seen to be invested in and making money from in return for campaign contributions

b) regulations push production to china

c) politicians like our president who are behind this have been borrowing tons of money from china to pay for their out of control spending, so maybe his not minding pollution in china to make goods we buy, or not seeming interested in working a call for them to stop manipulating their currency into the trans pacific agreement, has something to do with that? or maybe he has other, more personal interests in china, besides his trust fund and the well connected (in chinese business/gov) US citizen who owned O's campaign website?

d) these politicians don't mind all the pollution coming out of factories over there, even though over here, they tell us that our pollution will kill everyone.

 

yeah. makes sense all right. if you don't think about it for a couple of seconds. how do you say 'pollution is bad and will kill all future babies so we can't do that' then continue buying products from countries that do, and from companies that were founded by americans who your regulations drove over there? how is that anything less than a complete joke?

oh and throw in the inhumane working conditions. it's bad to have that over here, but ok for you occupy protestor types to get your iphones from a 3rd world where it does happen, so you can continue protesting capitalism. right-o

*pukes*

 

 

 

This isn't an us vs each other fight. This is an us vs them(elite) fight. It always has been. It always will be. They want you to think that we are at odds but we aren't. They are lying. The more we fight amongst ourselves the easier it is for them. Your vitriol seems to stem from a large helping of right wing propaganda. I have trouble envisioning a world where helping people too much could end badly for everyone, but I very easily can imagine a world where helping people too little would get quite dark.

[MisterE]

wats a joke is that in the same breath as you telling me about my vitriol and how its not us vs us but us vs them, you have to point out that i'm a slave to right wing propaganda, as did limpy, and completely ignore the possibility of any left wing propaganda having influenced your or limpy or any of the details of the scenario on topic. it makes me less likely to consider whatever else you said or have to say. i was following along with the whole not us vs us thing until i got to that.

 

i mean you want to be like 'woah dude step back its not us vs us' and then 'you have been brainwashed'. but it was limpy who first made a comment that was a bit more confrontational towards me and what i was saying. i just said some stuff about regulations and politicians. you can't have it both ways at the same time dude. just casually dismissive of me and everything i've said, via cheap ass ad hominems and no actual rebuttal of any of it, at the same time as preaching wishy washy 'lets join together and fight the true enemy' crap.

 

really man, this whole notion of being anti capitalist while you tweet or post here from an iphone is a total joke. it's a complete farce. and meanwhile your consumerism supports those polluting factories over there. and so do the politicians you likely voted on to elect, and who have done nothing to curb any of it, while pretending to care about pollution in front of their voters AND getting richer from green energy ventures which is a double win. you're right about how it shouldn't be us vs us, but own up to there being more than just right wing propaganda at play here and there being possibly more than just my take on it being questionable (or maybe point out where something i've said isn't logical), and i'll start taking you seriously. i dont think american politics and international economic relations can be separated from the issue of chinese pollution, so it's not like everything i've said is just completely off base here.

[lumpenprol]

china seems like a drag

it will certainly make you stop taking clean air for granted. Apparently just breathing on a day like today is equal to a 3-pack-a-day habit...

[chenGOD]

[LimpyLoo]

wats a joke is that in the same breath as you telling me about my vitriol and how its not us vs us but us vs them, you have to point out that i'm a slave to right wing propaganda, as did limpy, and completely ignore the possibility of any left wing propaganda having influenced your or limpy or any of the details of the scenario on topic. it makes me less likely to consider whatever else you said or have to say. i was following along with the whole not us vs us thing until i got to that.

 

i mean you want to be like 'woah dude step back its not us vs us' and then 'you have been brainwashed'. but it was limpy who first made a comment that was a bit more confrontational towards me and what i was saying. i just said some stuff about regulations and politicians. you can't have it both ways at the same time dude. just casually dismissive of me and everything i've said, via cheap ass ad hominems and no actual rebuttal of any of it, at the same time as preaching wishy washy 'lets join together and fight the true enemy' crap.

 

really man, this whole notion of being anti capitalist while you tweet or post here from an iphone is a total joke. it's a complete farce. and meanwhile your consumerism supports those polluting factories over there. and so do the politicians you likely voted on to elect, and who have done nothing to curb any of it, while pretending to care about pollution in front of their voters AND getting richer from green energy ventures which is a double win. you're right about how it shouldn't be us vs us, but own up to there being more than just right wing propaganda at play here and there being possibly more than just my take on it being questionable (or maybe point out where something i've said isn't logical), and i'll start taking you seriously. i dont think american politics and international economic relations can be separated from the issue of chinese pollution, so it's not like everything i've said is just completely off base here.

 

It's pretty simple. Regulation is more or less good for everybody except corporations. Regulation is the only force in the universe that makes corporations put the common good before profit. We're literally in a thread about horrible environmental abuses. Regulation is the difference between America's air and China's air.

[eugene]

if Lain C was around he'd probably say how government involvement actually saved corporations from themselves and prevented a socialist revolution.

 

rest in peace Lain.

[LimpyLoo]

if Lain C was around he'd probably say how government involvement actually saved corporations from themselves and prevented a socialist revolution.

 

rest in peace Lain.

 

I always seem to miss when people are banned. I didn't know Lain was gone.

[eugene]

he wasn't, i think he quit watmm because it was too intolerant for him or something, lol.

[lumpenprol]

hee-hee

 

*pours a mimosa out of a crystal flute for Lain*

[SR4]

was it Lain? I always thought it was Iain??

 

 

but yeah, i think he said he was getting bored/fed up with this place.

[goDel]

 

 

and in the meantime, our politicians over here in the US will be passing stricter and stricter regulations that are impossible to meet while remaining profitable, driving more production to places like china, and those same politicians for some reason have no problem with us buying that stuff that was made in what they consider to be inhumane or unsafe conditions here. like it's ok to support those conditions if they are taking place somewhere else, i guess.

 

fucking lol

 

yeah over-regulation puts a strain on the job creators

makes it harder to pollute the rivers

 

fucking right-wing propaganda bullshit

 

*vomits*

ok but your sarcasm that apparently indicates that you don't think regulations make it any tougher at all for a business to operate, just completely ignores the hypocrisy of the mostly democrat politicians who push to get these regulations passed but then do absolutely nothing to try to dissuade countries like china from going way beyond the practices they want to regulate here. these politicians see dollar signs in green energy which they invest in and which happens to benefit from those regulations that are passed on the competition, as well as from the grants given to the green energy types in exchange for handsome campaign contributions. plenty of those green energy companies then end up bankrupt but surely the ceos got their cut. but if these politicians really think the world is going to end because of some pollution, why wouldn't they use the america's position as a consumer as leverage to get countries like china to play according to the same rules? are you, or are these politicians too dumb to not understand that tons of pollution being pumped into the planet would have the same long term affects regardless of where it's happening? no, i don't think anyone is that dumb. so i have to assume they really aren't so committed to their supposed goals, don't i? otherwise they'd cut back on trade with china to make them feel pressure to abide by similar regulations. until they do that or support motions to make it happen, no american politican who talks about pollution destroying our future will be seen as anything less than a hypocrite, lying, asshole, who is probably making tons of money from 'green energy'. if there's a flaw in my logic here please do point it out.

let me just summarize it first though.

a) politicians think pollution is going to kill us so they pass regulations that benefit competitors, which often those same politicians can be seen to be invested in and making money from in return for campaign contributions

b) regulations push production to china

c) politicians like our president who are behind this have been borrowing tons of money from china to pay for their out of control spending, so maybe his not minding pollution in china to make goods we buy, or not seeming interested in working a call for them to stop manipulating their currency into the trans pacific agreement, has something to do with that? or maybe he has other, more personal interests in china, besides his trust fund and the well connected (in chinese business/gov) US citizen who owned O's campaign website?

d) these politicians don't mind all the pollution coming out of factories over there, even though over here, they tell us that our pollution will kill everyone.

 

yeah. makes sense all right. if you don't think about it for a couple of seconds. how do you say 'pollution is bad and will kill all future babies so we can't do that' then continue buying products from countries that do, and from companies that were founded by americans who your regulations drove over there? how is that anything less than a complete joke?

oh and throw in the inhumane working conditions. it's bad to have that over here, but ok for you occupy protestor types to get your iphones from a 3rd world where it does happen, so you can continue protesting capitalism. right-o

*pukes*

Come on man. It's a lot more complicated than that. Look at the car industry for instance. Which regulations drove the car industry outside the US exactly? The regulations wrt energy consumption in the US have been years behind that of the rest of the world. And still, cars are being made elsewhere. Interesting. Jobs went to China because those international corporations could build their products much cheaper outside of the US. Which regulations would be behind those exported jobs? Regulations which require companies to actually pay their workers money to make a decent living? Yeah right. Look at what is happening right now. Instead of building cars, Americans are building junkfood in fastfood restaurants, or selling crap built in china in walmart for next to nothing. If the government wasnt paying for foodstamps, there wouldnt be anyone able to even fabricate the shitfood.

There could be lots of reasons why the trade with china isnt more regulated. The most obvious being: china owns the us because it lends the us money.

 

The us regulated... Yeah right.

[goDel]

Yeeeaaaahhhh. Good orbital track.

 

Hey lumpy, hope you and the family are alright over there in burningairystan. Any noticable health effects already?

[LimpyLoo]

The only things that "drive" corporations outside the U.S. is the chance to exploit cheap labor, poor working conditions (e.g. factories with suicide nets), "cooperative" governments (i.e. governments that you can bribe to let you destroy the water supply of local villages) and "loose" regulations (i.e. the opportunity to pollute the environment with impunity).

 

MisterE if you're pro-corporation then that's fine, people can believe whatever they want. But just don't pretend that corporations care about anything besides money. It's insulting.

[delet...]

It's like telling people there's no jesus limpy. This ideology is wedded to the psyche in childhood and some people's brains never develop beyond/can't escape these fantasies taught to them in infancy. So whilst other faculties mature, reason will ever remain in thrall to this fecund, evergreen sprite.

[goDel]

The only things that "drive" corporations outside the U.S. is the chance to exploit cheap labor, poor working conditions (e.g. factories with suicide nets), "cooperative" governments (i.e. governments that you can bribe to let you destroy the water supply of local villages) and "loose" regulations (i.e. the opportunity to pollute the environment with impunity).

 

MisterE if you're pro-corporation then that's fine, people can believe whatever they want. But just don't pretend that corporations care about anything besides money. It's insulting.

fixt.

 

It's all about money. If cheap labor is done under good working conditions, all corporations would follow suit instantly. That other stuff doesn't drive corporations. It's often correlated to cheap labor, in the short run that is, but that doesn't mean it drives corporations.

 

You often hear that it's those damned regulations that's keeping companies back. But that story is a bit more nuanced.

 

The irony is, that due to all the lobbying of those same companies (and following that, THE ACTUAL INFLUENCE ON THOSE EXACT REGULATIONS THEY HAD THEIR FINGERS ON), the regulations get overly complicated. See the new regulations for financial institutions for instance. All the Basel and SolvencyII crap. It's all being developed WITH the industry.

 

That what starts in politics as a couple of laws making sure industries work within a simple set of moral and ethical bounds (read: doesn't go into details of how a business should be run as long as those standards are being met) grows into a technocratic monster with all kinds of stuff only the industry themselves could fabricate.

 

Politicians don't know crap about the inner workings of the industries. And to a certain extent they shouldn't either. But because those poor companies need some "air", they can come and sit at the table when regulations are being developed. The results are obvious: technocratic bull shit only a handful of lawyers can understand. And those basic moral and ethical laws? If you can find them, you deserve a medal.

[goDel]

In short: the problem isn't regulation. The problem is the complexity of the regulations. And those corporate idiots are the ones driving that complexity to new heights.

[lumpenprol]

 

Yeeeaaaahhhh. Good orbital track.

 

Hey lumpy, hope you and the family are alright over there in burningairystan. Any noticable health effects already?

 

 

itchy eyes, phlegmy throat, sneezing. Of the 3 guys at my company who have kids, all our kids have been running a slight fever. My chest was (is) really tight today, I've been laying low. Pollution is better today, only "Unhealthy for more than 24 hr exposure" (sad lol)

[goDel]

Are you able to maintain the airquality inside your home, or is it complete crap everywhere? inside and outside?

[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

itchy eyes, phlegmy throat, sneezing. Of the 3 guys at my company who have kids, all our kids have been running a slight fever. My chest was (is) really tight today, I've been laying low. Pollution is better today, only "Unhealthy for more than 24 hr exposure" (sad lol)

 

 

Jesus dude that's insane. Do you all wear masks?

[KovalainenFanBoy]

Should have saved some of that air when it was still breathable

[eugene]

someone can send fresh air to lump as secret santa gift, sadlol.

 

or one of those japanese realistic looking robodolls that he can mold in his own image in order to control the company from u.s.

[eugene]

[gmanyo]

 

china seems like a drag

it will certainly make you stop taking clean air for granted. Apparently just breathing on a day like today is equal to a 3-pack-a-day habit...

 

you guys in china would always throw your pollution on us in taiwan

[eugene]

 

 

china seems like a drag

it will certainly make you stop taking clean air for granted. Apparently just breathing on a day like today is equal to a 3-pack-a-day habit...

 

you guys in china would always throw your pollution on us in taiwan

 

they just want you to identify with the mainland in this way, just one the methods for readying taiwan for inevitable unification.

[Braintree]

I think it's mostly coal power plants, China consumes 50% or more of world's coal.

 

Rest is probably factories.

 

Govt. doesn't say where it comes from, but they do make cryptic announcements, for example, they are now saying it "will get better by the 9th". So, they don't say where it comes from but they know exactly when it will start to improve :-)

 

By the way during the Expo in 2010 we had good weather all year. My guess is they turned off all the factories/power plants near Shanghai. Then in September suddenly one day the air was yellow again. Just jokingly, I told my co-worker, "well, I guess the Expo is over". He looked online and said "yeah, it ended yesterday". So they had literally waited until the day after the Expo ended, and then flipped all the switches for further air apocalypse.

 

Fun fact: apparently 30% of the air pollution in my hometown of San Francisco comes from China...blows across the Pacific

 

I'm glad I don't still live a block away from the ocean.