depression - source of inspiration or creativity killer?

[goDel]

yeah. can't imagine being creative while being in a zombie mental state like depression. afterwards perhaps. but certainly not during.

[dingformung]

Okay, I was asking because it seemed to be an artist cliché: The depressed guy on the edge of sanity who creates great art in order to keep alive... as it looks this cliché is bullshit. The only way depression could possibly enhance art is the urge to heal oneself which could end in some aimless attempts. After all there is nothing good about depression.

And being depressed doesn't mean the musician makes sad or dark music and being happy doesn't mean the musician makes happy music. So if you hear a dark track it's more the fascination for these kinds of aesthetics rather than an accurate picture of the artist's feelings

[dingformung]

And you can add: Bipolar disorder could possibly enhance art in the times of mania

[dingformung]

But don't we like gibberish here on this forum?

[mcbpete]

Okay, I was asking because it seemed to be an artist cliché: The depressed guy on the edge of sanity who creates great art in order to keep alive... as it looks this cliché is bullshit. The only way depression could possibly enhance art is the urge to heal oneself which could end in some aimless attempts. After all there is nothing good about depression.

And being depressed doesn't mean the musician makes sad or dark music and being happy doesn't mean the musician makes happy music. So if you hear a dark track it's more the fascination for these kinds of aesthetics rather than an accurate picture of the artist's feelings

Yeah absolutely spot on - Though funnily enough sometimes actually trying to force (and it really can be a force with depression) creativity can sometimes be a healing process. Like trying to start a car on a freezing day - you have to keep trying and trying and forcing it to start, and if you're lucky ... the engine will do its thing and all is good and it goes trundles along happily !

 

But sometimes the engine will just seize up or flood (I have no idea about cars - is that what they do?).

[dingformung]

Epicurus said something like this: Act as if you are happy and you will be happy ;)

 

And Banksy said: reciting old proverbs makes you sound like a twat

 

and they are both right

[747Music]

I can elevate my depressive moods with fresh air and exercise, maybe the more introverted artistic types cure their depression with writing a good song....

 

I wouldn't say "cure", I'd say "treat" or "medicate" their depression with writing a good song would be a better fit.

 

Bipolar disorder (which Cobain likely had) comes with elevated creativity in the hypomania/mania stages

 

I can very much vouch for this. I have rapid cycling bipolar and it's when I'm in those manic stages that I get my best ideas.

 

When in more mild depressive states, making tunes can be really calming and relaxing. Especially if you don't give yourself a deadline or goal to reach. Basically just relax and mess around.

In more difficult depressive states, if you can even make it to your studio chair, it can be too frustrating to get anything done and you end up the same or worse off. Best to just listen to tunes instead, at that point. Very rarely had I made anything in that state. Nothing worth keeping. Nothing even completed.

 

I don't like being depressed at all. It really sucks. In fact, I'd go so far to say I harbor an incredibly strong dislike of it. I find it very, very odd that some people would romanticize the idea.

[YangYing]

I remember Richard said somewhere that the best time to make music is when you're really bored, which has been true for me. So if for you depression=boredom (and all other things that come with it) then yeah, inspiration.

[dingformung]

 

I can elevate my depressive moods with fresh air and exercise, maybe the more introverted artistic types cure their depression with writing a good song....

 

I wouldn't say "cure", I'd say "treat" or "medicate" their depression with writing a good song would be a better fit.

 

Bipolar disorder (which Cobain likely had) comes with elevated creativity in the hypomania/mania stages

 

I can very much vouch for this. I have rapid cycling bipolar and it's when I'm in those manic stages that I get my best ideas.

 

When in more mild depressive states, making tunes can be really calming and relaxing. Especially if you don't give yourself a deadline or goal to reach. Basically just relax and mess around.

In more difficult depressive states, if you can even make it to your studio chair, it can be too frustrating to get anything done and you end up the same or worse off. Best to just listen to tunes instead, at that point. Very rarely had I made anything in that state. Nothing worth keeping. Nothing even completed.

 

I don't like being depressed at all. It really sucks. In fact, I'd go so far to say I harbor an incredibly strong dislike of it. I find it very, very odd that some people would romanticize the idea.

 

 

Yeah, it's extremely odd! Was in no way meant to disrespect anyone with the question.

 

Also I citet Epicurus somewhere: Stupid and cynical to do that in connection with depression, a severe disease, as if that helped anything... but don't you know this musician cliché? that of the depressed artist that needs to do art in order to stay sane? maybe it's produced by people like Cobain and Wallace who are in fact the exception to the rule

 

I remember Richard said somewhere that the best time to make music is when you're really bored, which has been true for me. So if for you depression=boredom (and all other things that come with it) then yeah, inspiration.

Yes, but I think it's quite obvious that boredom is the best time to occupy oneself... but that's really not what I mean when I talk about depression. Are there actually people who think boredom = depression???

[747Music]

 

 

I can elevate my depressive moods with fresh air and exercise, maybe the more introverted artistic types cure their depression with writing a good song....

 

I wouldn't say "cure", I'd say "treat" or "medicate" their depression with writing a good song would be a better fit.

 

Bipolar disorder (which Cobain likely had) comes with elevated creativity in the hypomania/mania stages

 

I can very much vouch for this. I have rapid cycling bipolar and it's when I'm in those manic stages that I get my best ideas.

 

When in more mild depressive states, making tunes can be really calming and relaxing. Especially if you don't give yourself a deadline or goal to reach. Basically just relax and mess around.

In more difficult depressive states, if you can even make it to your studio chair, it can be too frustrating to get anything done and you end up the same or worse off. Best to just listen to tunes instead, at that point. Very rarely had I made anything in that state. Nothing worth keeping. Nothing even completed.

 

I don't like being depressed at all. It really sucks. In fact, I'd go so far to say I harbor an incredibly strong dislike of it. I find it very, very odd that some people would romanticize the idea.

 

 

Yeah, it's extremely odd! Was in no way meant to disrespect anyone with the question.

 

Also I citet Epicurus somewhere: Stupid and cynical to do that in connection with depression, a severe disease, as if that helped anything... but don't you know this musician cliché? that of the depressed artist that needs to do art in order to stay sane? maybe it's produced by people like Cobain and Wallace who are in fact the exception to the rule

 

I remember Richard said somewhere that the best time to make music is when you're really bored, which has been true for me. So if for you depression=boredom (and all other things that come with it) then yeah, inspiration.

Yes, but I think it's quite obvious that boredom is the best time to occupy oneself... but that's really not what I mean when I talk about depression. Are there actually people who think boredom = depression???

 

 

No offense or disrespect taken. We're simply discussing the topic and the validity of various arguments involving it.

 

I feel the need to clarify further. I was speaking from personal experience, used the wrong wording and left out personal information.

 

That "cliche" is absolutely true to an extent. Involving yourself in something very deeply can be a great way to distract your mind from it's depressive state without actually leaving it, in a way. Unfortunate for me, is that I have OCD as well. The OCD complicates matters by adding a layer of intense frustration when things aren't going according to what the illness dictates is "proper" or "correctly done". This makes it difficult for me to work on music. Both my OCD symptoms and my bipolar go through cycles. Sometimes my OCD is horrible and sometimes it's not so bad. If I'm in a state of depression, but my OCD is not bad, then making music is a fantastic way to distract my mind. So I can absolutely see how this cliche is true in a lot of artists. It also explains, in part, why that art ends up being really good. They need to pour their mind so far into it to distract themselves enough, that it ends up being amazing. Not to mention it is a release of expression which can make you feel relieved. Like getting something off of your chest.

 

A lot of people seem to over-generalize mental illness. I think this is where the problem lies in determining a standard for this cliche as well as peoples understanding of mental illness or even general psychology. The human brain is far too complex to say something is one way or the other in how a person thinks as a standard. The rules we do know are there, but there are just far more rules that all interact with each other than any of us know to be able to make a completely reliable standard that applies to all of us.

 

Even an illness like OCD has far more symptoms that lead to a diagnosis than people in general seem to realize. For instance, some cases of OCD can make a person hallucinate. For myself, part of it involves spoken conversation with another person. I often have the inability to make an assumption on what the other person is saying and must base my understanding solely on the words they use. Unfortunately, many people seem to not pay attention on how they communicate or try to develop skill at it. They use figures of speech that make no sense, or will use "inside speech" with people who aren't "in on it" (like an inside joke but with regular communication), or they are just terrible at thinking of the words to convey the idea they want to convey. This can make me confused and very frustrated at trying to figure out what this person is trying to say. Yet, most of the time I don't care if a magazine is not perfectly lined up with the edge of the table, or flip a light switch on and off multiple times before leaving a room.

 

TL;DR - So the artist cliche is true, but only if defined in a very specific way. Otherwise, the terms are used too broadly and it can be proven false.

[dingformung]

 

 

 

I can elevate my depressive moods with fresh air and exercise, maybe the more introverted artistic types cure their depression with writing a good song....

 

I wouldn't say "cure", I'd say "treat" or "medicate" their depression with writing a good song would be a better fit.

 

Bipolar disorder (which Cobain likely had) comes with elevated creativity in the hypomania/mania stages

 

I can very much vouch for this. I have rapid cycling bipolar and it's when I'm in those manic stages that I get my best ideas.

 

When in more mild depressive states, making tunes can be really calming and relaxing. Especially if you don't give yourself a deadline or goal to reach. Basically just relax and mess around.

In more difficult depressive states, if you can even make it to your studio chair, it can be too frustrating to get anything done and you end up the same or worse off. Best to just listen to tunes instead, at that point. Very rarely had I made anything in that state. Nothing worth keeping. Nothing even completed.

 

I don't like being depressed at all. It really sucks. In fact, I'd go so far to say I harbor an incredibly strong dislike of it. I find it very, very odd that some people would romanticize the idea.

 

 

Yeah, it's extremely odd! Was in no way meant to disrespect anyone with the question.

 

Also I citet Epicurus somewhere: Stupid and cynical to do that in connection with depression, a severe disease, as if that helped anything... but don't you know this musician cliché? that of the depressed artist that needs to do art in order to stay sane? maybe it's produced by people like Cobain and Wallace who are in fact the exception to the rule

 

I remember Richard said somewhere that the best time to make music is when you're really bored, which has been true for me. So if for you depression=boredom (and all other things that come with it) then yeah, inspiration.

Yes, but I think it's quite obvious that boredom is the best time to occupy oneself... but that's really not what I mean when I talk about depression. Are there actually people who think boredom = depression???

 

 

No offense or disrespect taken. We're simply discussing the topic and the validity of various arguments involving it.

 

I feel the need to clarify further. I was speaking from personal experience, used the wrong wording and left out personal information.

 

That "cliche" is absolutely true to an extent. Involving yourself in something very deeply can be a great way to distract your mind from it's depressive state without actually leaving it, in a way. Unfortunate for me, is that I have OCD as well. The OCD complicates matters by adding a layer of intense frustration when things aren't going according to what the illness dictates is "proper" or "correctly done". This makes it difficult for me to work on music. Both my OCD symptoms and my bipolar go through cycles. Sometimes my OCD is horrible and sometimes it's not so bad. If I'm in a state of depression, but my OCD is not bad, then making music is a fantastic way to distract my mind. So I can absolutely see how this cliche is true in a lot of artists. It also explains, in part, why that art ends up being really good. They need to pour their mind so far into it to distract themselves enough, that it ends up being amazing. Not to mention it is a release of expression which can make you feel relieved. Like getting something off of your chest.

 

A lot of people seem to over-generalize mental illness. I think this is where the problem lies in determining a standard for this cliche as well as peoples understanding of mental illness or even general psychology. The human brain is far too complex to say something is one way or the other in how a person thinks as a standard. The rules we do know are there, but there are just far more rules that all interact with each other than any of us know to be able to make a completely reliable standard that applies to all of us.

 

Even an illness like OCD has far more symptoms that lead to a diagnosis than people in general seem to realize. For instance, some cases of OCD can make a person hallucinate. For myself, part of it involves spoken conversation with another person. I often have the inability to make an assumption on what the other person is saying and must base my understanding solely on the words they use. Unfortunately, many people seem to not pay attention on how they communicate or try to develop skill at it. They use figures of speech that make no sense, or will use "inside speech" with people who aren't "in on it" (like an inside joke but with regular communication), or they are just terrible at thinking of the words to convey the idea they want to convey. This can make me confused and very frustrated at trying to figure out what this person is trying to say. Yet, most of the time I don't care if a magazine is not perfectly lined up with the edge of the table, or flip a light switch on and off multiple times before leaving a room.

 

TL;DR - So the artist cliche is true, but only if defined in a very specific way. Otherwise, the terms are used too broadly and it can be proven false.

 

 

I think you summed up perfectly (your OCD will disagree) :)

The problem with language is that we all learned each word in a different context so it can mean totally different things to different persons and we are doomed to misunderstand each other permanently. So there aren't in fact any non-"inside speech" (as you put it) terms. That's the great chaos of life and that's so freeing and delightful about it to me, to some this could be frightening I guess

 

I can see how overly perfectionist behavior can produce some great music (I think Autechre is a good example) but if it gets you to a point where you can't make decisions anymore it blocks you (like with OCD I guess)

[awesomeperson]

Don't know if depression will kill the creativity when you can't even think at all but once you settle with a woman you can be sure she will.

[YangYing]

 

 

 

I remember Richard said somewhere that the best time to make music is when you're really bored, which has been true for me. So if for you depression=boredom (and all other things that come with it) then yeah, inspiration.

Yes, but I think it's quite obvious that boredom is the best time to occupy oneself... but that's really not what I mean when I talk about depression. Are there actually people who think boredom = depression???

I didn't mean boredom=depression, but it is a part of it innit. I don't feel I know enough for this topic anyways.. carry on

[Braintree]

In deep depressions, I'm much more likely to get black out drunk than creative.

[Ragnar]

i remember brian eno said in an interview he does so many albums n shit because he feels fucking depressed when he's not in the studio. He's very hit or miss but i like the sentiment of that (I tried not musicing but it was fukin depressing as shit)

[Lewps]

Keeping my depression at bay is a big factor in what motivates me to be creative, i definitely make art for therapeutic reasons.

Don't know if depression will kill the creativity when you can't even think at all but once you settle with a woman you can be sure she will.

jaded mothafuckkaa

 !: find a creative bird

 

[dingformung]

In deep depressions, I'm much more likely to get black out drunk than creative.

In deep drunkenness, I'm likely to get creative/destructive (basically the same on the atom level)

[Candiru]

Depression = no more music because you died thats not very creative how creative is kurt cobain or mama cass or sonny bono or Per "Dead" Ohlin or Biggie n 2Pac these days eh

[dingformung]

Depression = no more music because you died thats not very creative how creative is kurt cobain or mama cass or sonny bono or Per "Dead" Ohlin or Biggie n 2Pac these days eh

 

They inspired people who became creative as a consequence. So through others they still are creative if you take a spiritual look on it

[fxbip]

I have thought about this a lot myself,been a quite creative person and having dealt with depression for years(im getting better and better though,im not suicidal ever anymore and slowly building myself a proper life and im so thankful for that! DONT GIVE UP PEOPLE IT CAN GET BETTER)

 

I think depression don't bring inspiration by itself.

 

But when depressed i have find it may come because:

 

Inspiration is often depression and suffering trying to heal itself with Art.It's  basically self therapy.

 

So when very depressed or fucked up when you are an artist you try to compensate these fucked up feelings with some Art.And that may result into LOTS of inspiration and work been done,but these are like there because you try to balance things out in your life.

 

But love and happiness is as a big and i would say even bigger source of inspiration.More energy,more focus.

 

That has been my experience anyway.

[dingformung]

I have thought about this a lot myself,been a quite creative person and having dealt with depression for years(im getting better and better though,im not suicidal ever anymore and slowly building myself a proper life and im so thankful for that! DONT GIVE UP PEOPLE IT CAN GET BETTER)

 

I think depression don't bring inspiration by itself.

 

But when depressed i have find it may come because:

 

Inspiration is often depression and suffering trying to heal itself with Art.It's  basically self therapy.

 

So when very depressed or fucked up when you are an artist you try to compensate these fucked up feelings with some Art.And that may result into LOTS of inspiration and work been done,but these are like there because you try to balance things out in your life.

 

But love and happiness is as a big and i would say even bigger source of inspiration.More energy,more focus.

 

That has been my experience anyway.

 

Yes, nothing feels better to feel good, it just is like that. Feeling amazing feels fantastic. Then everything becomes art and you can't stop creating

[acid1]

This thread is depressing

[Salvatorin]

Depression is a fucking drag and not conducive to creativity.

[fxbip]

 

I have thought about this a lot myself,been a quite creative person and having dealt with depression for years(im getting better and better though,im not suicidal ever anymore and slowly building myself a proper life and im so thankful for that! DONT GIVE UP PEOPLE IT CAN GET BETTER)

 

I think depression don't bring inspiration by itself.

 

But when depressed i have find it may come because:

 

Inspiration is often depression and suffering trying to heal itself with Art.It's  basically self therapy.

 

So when very depressed or fucked up when you are an artist you try to compensate these fucked up feelings with some Art.And that may result into LOTS of inspiration and work been done,but these are like there because you try to balance things out in your life.

 

But love and happiness is as a big and i would say even bigger source of inspiration.More energy,more focus.

 

That has been my experience anyway.

 

Yes, nothing feels better to feel good, it just is like that. Feeling amazing feels fantastic. Then everything becomes art and you can't stop creating

 

Yup.

Happiness is the greatest masterpiece.

[Braintree]

I have thought about this a lot myself,been a quite creative person and having dealt with depression for years(im getting better and better though,im not suicidal ever anymore and slowly building myself a proper life and im so thankful for that! DONT GIVE UP PEOPLE IT CAN GET BETTER)

 

I think depression don't bring inspiration by itself.

 

But when depressed i have find it may come because:

 

Inspiration is often depression and suffering trying to heal itself with Art.It's  basically self therapy.

 

So when very depressed or fucked up when you are an artist you try to compensate these fucked up feelings with some Art.And that may result into LOTS of inspiration and work been done,but these are like there because you try to balance things out in your life.

 

But love and happiness is as a big and i would say even bigger source of inspiration.More energy,more focus.

 

That has been my experience anyway.

 

 

If you're saying that depression is an indirect influence of creativity, then many things are. But mostly, the thing that gets you out of the depression is hope. Directly, the creative product is a product of hope. Not depression.

 

Depression kills your motivation, but hope motivates you to dig yourself out of it.