Elon Musk's Starman - Is this shitty future real wtf

[zero]

44 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

my brother in Christ, I fear that you may be a casualty in an info wars. Please join us instead so that we may defeat these globalists!

Joking aside, I disagree a little bit with what you say. I haven't listened to too much of his content: mainly that Tucker interview and also the X spaces interview a few days ago where Elon Musk dropped by and was talking to him (oh, and his interview with Kanye West from like a year ago). I also have seen clips of him over the years. I did not see or hear him saying anything that was hateful, although I am not discounting the possibility that he has done so, just that I have not heard it. He also is pretty consistently anti-war, so I feel like describing him as a threat to peace is not accurate. He definitely does sell snakeoil type products on his website, but according to him that is the only option that he has for advertising revenue. No one else would ever hire him to do advertising after he was removed from all social media. If idiots hear his message and use it as a means to support their own racism or any other bigotry (so long as he is not actively playing into that) then it is definitely a bad thing but is not his fault. In that X spaces interview from a few days ago he explains what happened regarding the Sandy Hook incident. Musk also confirmed that he was removed from Twitter (before Musk bought it) for insulting a CNN journalist. He said that this was literally what was on the log for his removal from the platform, that he insulted a journalist, and he was also removed from pretty much all platforms and it is not clear that he broke any laws that would merit being removed from literally all mainstream platforms.

dude I'd suggest you take a quick glance at his wiki page if you really are this unsure about what type of person he is - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones

maybe you haven't personally heard him say anything hateful, but this doesn't mean the rest of the planet hasn't. he is more than likely the king of fake news. he's a modern day version of the National Enquirer, which used to be an obviously fake tabloid paper. he makes up bullshit in order to sell it to all the gullible zombies glued to right wing channels like OAN/Faux news/Breitbart. not just the merchandise crap he slings, but the ideas he bakes into their heads is what the real product is. he's an influencer to those who are sadly unable to delineate between fact and fiction. sure you can blame the recipients for believing it. but you probably know by now that a huge percentage of humans have turned into social media lemmings, believing whatever they see posted on their phone apps. Jones is smart enough to exploit this fact, and profits off of the hateful messaging. people actually give this prick $

if you don't see this type of person as dangerous, or a threat to the common good or a peaceful existence on this planet, then no use trying to go further. maybe he hasn't directly committed murder, but he endorses hate groups, pumps their heads full of more garbage that leads to actual harm to other humans... and now bizarro world Elon has given him back his X microphone to continue building his brand (which is a total con), and keep on posting out the hate to all his loyal zombie followers, on the mega dumpster fire site formerly known as twitter!

[zlemflolia]

2 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

my brother in Christ, I fear that you may be a casualty in an info wars. Please join us instead so that we may defeat these globalists!

Joking aside, I disagree a little bit with what you say. I haven't listened to too much of his content: mainly that Tucker interview and also the X spaces interview a few days ago where Elon Musk dropped by and was talking to him (oh, and his interview with Kanye West from like a year ago). I also have seen clips of him over the years. I did not see or hear him saying anything that was hateful, although I am not discounting the possibility that he has done so, just that I have not heard it. He also is pretty consistently anti-war, so I feel like describing him as a threat to peace is not accurate. He definitely does sell snakeoil type products on his website, but according to him that is the only option that he has for advertising revenue. No one else would ever hire him to do advertising after he was removed from all social media. If idiots hear his message and use it as a means to support their own racism or any other bigotry (so long as he is not actively playing into that) then it is definitely a bad thing but is not his fault. In that X spaces interview from a few days ago he explains what happened regarding the Sandy Hook incident. Musk also confirmed that he was removed from Twitter (before Musk bought it) for insulting a CNN journalist. He said that this was literally what was on the log for his removal from the platform, that he insulted a journalist, and he was also removed from pretty much all platforms and it is not clear that he broke any laws that would merit being removed from literally all mainstream platforms.

why try and defend racist homophobic idiots

[zlemflolia]

if u ignore the bad stuff he is entertaining tho

 

[Nebraska]

8 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

Some people hate Jones for whatever reason. I mean he does say some truly outlandish shit but I get big time Dale Gribble and Dr. Lawrence Jacoby vibes from him, and I love those dudes.

alex jones wouldn't be a problem if people didn't confuse entertainment for news

[EdamAnchorman]

[ignatius]

this _maybe_ was kinda the last benign thing he did. movie came out in 2006. Linklater is from texas and it's where jones got his start i think? public access weirdo show that had a cult following so him fitting in to a cameo in A Scanner Darkly makes some sense.  

 

[ignatius]

2 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

if your kid was murdered and jones made millions off fantasies, which he told his audience were true, about how you're an actor and your kid wasn't really murdered then you may not have such a soft spot in your heart for him

especially if they start knocking on your front door yelling at you about some conspiracy bullshit and calling your house and cell phone and all that shit.. basically got stalked by a bunch of conspiracy idiots.

[may be rude]

41 minutes ago, ignatius said:

44 minutes ago, trying to be less rude said:

if your kid was murdered and jones made millions off fantasies, which he told his audience were true, about how you're an actor and your kid wasn't really murdered then you may not have such a soft spot in your heart for him

especially if they start knocking on your front door yelling at you about some conspiracy bullshit and calling your house and cell phone and all that shit.. basically got stalked by a bunch of conspiracy idiots.

people going through their kid being murdered, imagine perpetrating this shit on them. it's a perfect example to illustrate to people what we have on our hands. what kind of person would do that? this dude made himself into a monster, building a revenue model around selling his delusions. 

in court his defense was that he has a mental condition where he believes crazy shit. i'm sorry, i know when i don't know. there's an element of personal responsibility when it comes to being careless about how one reaches conclusions. does he have a schizoid detachment from reality or is he just reckless and indulgent?

Edited December 13, 2023 by trying to be less rude

[decibal cooper]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:48 PM, zero said:

if you don't see this type of person as dangerous, or a threat to the common good or a peaceful existence on this planet, then no use trying to go further. maybe he hasn't directly committed murder, but he endorses hate groups, pumps their heads full of more garbage that leads to actual harm to other humans... and now bizarro world Elon has given him back his X microphone to continue building his brand (which is a total con), and keep on posting out the hate to all his loyal zombie followers, on the mega dumpster fire site formerly known as twitter!

yeah i agree with this somewhat, and I also find the Sandy Hook thing detestable, but at the same time, like the user Zlemflovia said, he can be entertaining and informative if you ignore the mountains of conspiracy bullshit he spews. I was chatting with a friend about this who said that Jones is like a broken clock, which tells the correct time twice a day even though broken. I also think that the concerted effort of all the major social media / tech companies to have him removed from their platforms set a precedent that at the very least is not a good thing. He is currently doing a 15 minute daily news wrap video on X each day, and I tried watching it last night, and there is all kind of nonsense and disingenuous pandering that he spews, but there is also an anti-authoritarian, anti-war ethos and coverage of mainstream news articles/videos that would not normally be highlighted or commented upon. Also, in terms of being a threat to the peaceful existence around the globe, I would say that Jones pales in comparison when looking at the different ways that mainstream media of all stripes presents information (or purposefully omits it) to justify actual warfare, targeting of civilians, etc. Like I think that is one of the things that made Jones famous in the first place was his objection to the 2003 invasion of Iraq - and he was also very critical of Trump when he decided to use the military to do airstrikes in Syria. Anyway, I am not trying to be an Alex Jones Info Wars crusader, was mainly interested in commenting on his return to social media and Elon Musk owned X in particular.

[zero]

3 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

Anyway, I am not trying to be an Alex Jones Info Wars crusader, was mainly interested in commenting on his return to social media and Elon Musk owned X in particular.

for sure. my original comment to you wasn't aimed at getting you into a defensive stance to stand up for Alex Jones, only to highlight what so many people find extremely offensive about him. my personal opinion is that no one should be listening to anyone who knowingly spreads hate, lies, and misinformation, not even for entertainment purposes. people like this should be ignored, since giving them your attention is what they want. 

[taphead]

20 minutes ago, Summon Dot E X E said:

What happens when they do this to you?

Those of you out there who exploit the deaths of children for personal gain without any concern for the damage it does to their surviving families have gotta be feeling pretty nervous right now. Like hey buddy, I got bad news: you're next!

[zero]

41 minutes ago, Summon Dot E X E said:

Who determines if a person is someone like that? What if somebody makes a mistake: are they forever blacklisted?

Should this rule apply to ordinary people, too? What if somebody at one point "spread hate", as determined by a court of law? Should they forever lose their right to free speech? Should they be deplatformed forever because "it's a private company" (a company which does not have to bake cakes).

Is Alex Jones currently right about anything? Has he been proven right in the past? Is it possible that the law could be used as a weapon to silence political enemies? Has such a thing ever happened before? How many companies own the MSM? Still just 6?

Once people have been tribalized, and they feel nothing but revulsion and contempt for outgroup members, is it possible for them to see things in gray instead of black and white again? The very existence of Alex Jones is used for a real life Two Minutes Hate.

What if you were misled about him?

These are the kinds of questions I think about when considering whether I'm really a free speech absolutist or not. I think so, but it's very tough when you think about actors (whether AJ et al or MSM, depending on which tribe you're in) who have the ability to alter people's perceptions of reality. I think I like Elon's take: the solution to bad speech is just more speech -- people will sort it out. Maybe a bit optimistic. Some speech is definitely extremely harmful, especially given how broadly defined "speech" is.

At any rate, criticisms of AJ which just lazily accept the MSM character assassination of him as the Gospel truth without even entertaining his point of view are boring and a little obsequious.

It's not even about AJ: What happens when they do this to you? What if the entire machine turned towards you, had you in its sights, and proceeded to crush you like a bug? Would anybody support you?

you seem to be coming at this from some way-too-deep philosophical, or possibly legal mindset about all this...a lot of these questions all boil down to morality and ethics, universal principles that I didn't invent. do you feel you personally have an understanding of right from wrong? good from bad? I'm personally of the belief that there is certainly a right way for people to act/behave/speak, and a wrong way. spreading lies/hatred to me, falls in the "wrong" category. and if the individual continually does so, and it wasn't some one-off, then I'd say that individual should no longer be tolerated / should be ignored, since they are a proven bad actor... I don't want to go much further down this rabbit hole in this thread thx

[o00o]

I think that fits very well to the Alex jones example 

[taphead]

No they can't

[zero]

47 minutes ago, Summon Dot E X E said:

It makes sense in principle, but I called into question the underlying facts and the apparent motive for him to be silenced.

AJ aside, you can imagine how what you've proposed could be abused. The definitions of wrongthink and wrongspeech can be changed endlessly.

it's not wrong speech though - it's called hate speech - and has a clear definition:

noun

 

1. abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or similar grounds.

 

this is why Jones originally got banned from all the platforms. 

Elon allowing unknown trolls to vote him back on is clearly a troll move. Elon knows this. this is not some free speech crusade. Jones is an unremorseful repeat hate speech offender being handed back a megaphone, and has the ability to profit from this.

if you don't see the problem with this behavior, then maybe you need to re-assess your own personal ethics. or you're simply trolling here as well. 

[zlemflolia]

8 hours ago, decibal cooper said:

yeah i agree with this somewhat, and I also find the Sandy Hook thing detestable, but at the same time, like the user Zlemflovia said, he can be entertaining and informative if you ignore the mountains of conspiracy bullshit he spews. I was chatting with a friend about this who said that Jones is like a broken clock, which tells the correct time twice a day even though broken. I also think that the concerted effort of all the major social media / tech companies to have him removed from their platforms set a precedent that at the very least is not a good thing. He is currently doing a 15 minute daily news wrap video on X each day, and I tried watching it last night, and there is all kind of nonsense and disingenuous pandering that he spews, but there is also an anti-authoritarian, anti-war ethos and coverage of mainstream news articles/videos that would not normally be highlighted or commented upon. Also, in terms of being a threat to the peaceful existence around the globe, I would say that Jones pales in comparison when looking at the different ways that mainstream media of all stripes presents information (or purposefully omits it) to justify actual warfare, targeting of civilians, etc. Like I think that is one of the things that made Jones famous in the first place was his objection to the 2003 invasion of Iraq - and he was also very critical of Trump when he decided to use the military to do airstrikes in Syria. Anyway, I am not trying to be an Alex Jones Info Wars crusader, was mainly interested in commenting on his return to social media and Elon Musk owned X in particular.

his contradictory and syncretic ideology has all the characteristics of fascism, when you ignore the supposedly anti-war or anti-authoritarian facade the core is itself pro-war and pro-authoritarian because the trajectory of his ideas is pro-US and pro-capitalism because of its opposition to any genuinely anti-US, anti-military, or anti-authoritarian viewpoints.  if you foolishly have sympathies for the ideals of liberterianism it can be easy to be fooled, if you aren't aware that liberterianism is simply an ideological outgrowth of far right US ideologies, its fascistic global dominance and domestic abuse of the population, white supremacy and settler colonialism, etc.

[zlemflolia]

free speech is liberal idealism.  no, you should not have free speech to advocate these ideas on mass media platforms:

>people should not have access to healthcare

>women should have their right to abortions taken away and be put in cages if they try to get an abortion

>(racism)

>(nazism)

etc

and dont give me your naive "well that means if the wrong person gets in power they can ban other stuff you want to be allowed to say" if theyre in power theyll do what they want to begin with, it means you failed

if you advocate "I believe public institutions should be sold off to private entities so that they can extract profits off them" or "i believe workers should not have democracy in the workplace and instead it should be a dictatorship of the owner, who can keep all the profits for themself and actively work to decrease worker quality of life to maximize his own profits" im sorry but youre a piece of shit and you shold have no free speech

[taphead]

The thing you have to keep in mind about free speech is that we are currently living through a major shift in communication on the scale of the printing press. Just look at the speech we have going on now in this thread. This isn't normal. If the annoying guy from that one Norman Rockwell painting read this shit he would throw up with disgust and probably give up speech altogether.

[zlemflolia]

freedom of speech to say that so and so group of people should have bad things happen to them is only fine after society has advanced so far that such speech is nothing more than the ramblings of some idiotic moron who everyone ignores, not something that poses serious existential and political threats to those people

[taphead]

It doesn't matter what I think about that scenario. What matters is that everyone would have something to say about that scenario. And then what happens?

Edited December 15, 2023 by taphead

[may be rude]

14 hours ago, taphead said:

The thing you have to keep in mind about free speech is that we are currently living through a major shift in communication on the scale of the printing press. Just look at the speech we have going on now in this thread. This isn't normal. If the annoying guy from that one Norman Rockwell painting read this shit he would throw up with disgust and probably give up speech altogether.

someone described it well as "many-to-many communication"

it is a fundamental information dynamic that was born on this planet quite recently

we are churning in a gigantic mess as we figure out how to sort out this new reality. it is a sociological turning point.

the printing press was IT, so was written language. IT innovation can be charted as a curve, and we are probably somewhere around an elbow where it's going hockey stick

Edited December 15, 2023 by trying to be less rude

[ignatius]

[J3FF3R00]

I saw one of those on the road this week. I actually thought it looked kinda cool until seeing it in person. It’s like a gigantic metal brick on the road. It also shows dust and dirt pretty bad. 

[EdamAnchorman]

6 hours ago, J3FF3R00 said:

It also shows dust and dirt pretty bad. 

It also shows lack of sound judgement pretty bad, too.

[iococoi]

Quote

An Accounting of How Elon Musk Changed Texas in 2023

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/an-accounting-of-how-elon-musk-changed-texas-in-2023/