The watmm Anti-GAS thread

[cern]

Hello guys! 

Less is more? Or is it? 

I have coming to a conclusion that I don't like to buy more and more gear. 
The more around me the more time complicated it gets.. Even if I mostly have it for random jams, that is my therapy in life. 

This is the thread you go to if you had enough or you maybe want help with GAS? (Need a GAS-Mask)
Im a specialist in finding bad things in gear people craving for. 

I think I will only like to have 1 Analogue Mono synth, 1 Drum machine and my laptop where the action happens.

Would you like to have a Minimal setup? Imagine how much money you can save every year! 
Look at Autechre, all that shit they making is a lot and HUGE sounds coming but it is only made on laptop and the Max/MSP program. 

How would your minimal setup look like?  Think about it!

Peace

[pizza]

I support minimalist studios

[xox]

Max/msp is definitely a maximal setup, hence the name maaang

[Bubba69]

I believe in this. Getting into hardware was a fun thing to do but ultimately it opens an incredibly pointless can of worms around how to achieve things that aren't really an issue in the first place. Some of my favorite things are still things I made on computer a decade or so ago, or when I limited myself to just an analog 4, or things like that. Sometimes I think I should just music purely with the m8. I'm seeing countless people making amazing shit at every meetup, random example:

 

[cern]

52 minutes ago, Bubba69 said:

I believe in this. Getting into hardware was a fun thing to do but ultimately it opens an incredibly pointless can of worms around how to achieve things that aren't really an issue in the first place. Some of my favorite things are still things I made on computer a decade or so ago, or when I limited myself to just an analog 4, or things like that. Sometimes I think I should just music purely with the m8. I'm seeing countless people making amazing shit at every meetup, random example:

 

Wow that was lovely!

This is exactly what I think about also. I was investing in lots of gear before but I get the most joy of small set-ups often just with my laptop. 
I don't want to bash on people buying gear. There are really good tools and toys but it can be problematic when you are buying more and more. 
The GAS is there all the time and it is difficult to control it + Alot of Money is getting spent then you have 10x machines and barely have time to use 50% of the gear. 

I made a short jungle track a year ago on FastTrackerII and just for fun wanted to upload it on YouTube then got like 30K views and people still writing and comment good things about it. Then I  was only messing around with samples in the Tracker and nothing more.

But ofc Only playing with samples can get boring but there is alot of tools you can use to make and shape own sounds. 
When you get better you want to start creating your own unique sounds 
Max/MSP is a great way to go into the Modular-world and only use a computer. 
There is many options like software Eurorack. Or like the video they're just using 1 tool that is totally awesome! 

[pizza]

1 hour ago, Bubba69 said:

.. but ultimately it opens an incredibly pointless can of worms around how to achieve things that aren't really an issue in the first place. 

Love this. Have definitely fallen into this trap myself.

[cern]

5 minutes ago, pizza said:

Love this. Have definitely fallen into this trap myself.

The same goes for laptop-studios also ofc.. 
It is easy to buy the new amazing plugin or effects but then you end up having a library with all sorts of stuff.. 

A nice DAW, program or tracker then just use something that is useful for real. 
Example: There is a free VST-plugin called "Surge" that thing is huge! 

Renoise + Surge + Drumsamples cost so little but is so effective and alot of fun on the way! 

Im sure many here works differently 
Hardware is also fun ofc but for me sometimes I feel I want to get rid of it all.. (Opposite of GAS) 
And have it simple as possible. 

[pizza]

51 minutes ago, cern said:

The same goes for laptop-studios also ofc.. 
It is easy to buy the new amazing plugin or effects but then you end up having a library with all sorts of stuff..

Yeah, I guess. However, personally for me I find browsing around for VST's extremely boring and end up using stock plugins 99% of the time. They might not always be "the best", but I know them inside out which is pretty important for speed.

[xox]

On 8/30/2023 at 12:24 AM, cern said:

I think I will only like to have 1 Analogue Mono synth, 1 Drum machine and my laptop where the action happens.
 

I generally agree that it’s better to have less stuff but wisely chosen, stuff that’s capable enough but at the same time stuff we love to use 

I’ve tried everything under the sun, from all possible daws, supercollider, csound, maxmsp, countless vsti, analog mono and polysynths, tons of hw digital synths, soft and hard samplers … and after all this the most complex tracks I’ve made was the ones I made with a monomachine and it’s internal sequencer - who would have thought! Probably the main reason for that is that i was in love with my monomachine but I sold it eventually bc someone offered me 3500 euros but still i regret it soon after; i couldn’t believe that i could miss it that much bc i had tons of other stuff sw and hw ; _ ;

Sw wise reason always worked for me the best; max and sc was never worth it for the amount of time I could spend on music

so back to monomachine… imo it matters the most than you use what you like to use, or the way you like to do things bc music is just /emotions times will/ anyway 

as for the minimal amount of gear we could live with, id probably do well with just an octatrack, digitone and ob-6 (not a fan of mono synths tbh) or in the sw world just with reason 12

Edited September 2, 2023 by xox

[th555]

I guess this is less of an anti-GAS thread than I thought because every other post is mentioning thousands of dollars worth of gear...

 

To stick to the topic however, every couple of years I get the idea to try out puredata and try to do whole tracks in it but it's always the sequencing that trips me up. Then you have to connect with another minimalist piano roll thingy which is a big hassle, then to synchronize stuff... I guess max4live solves all of this but what's the budget version of max4live?
Maybe I should try again..

Edited September 2, 2023 by th555

[thejewk]

This first time I went into buying synth hardware, I went for what looked cool and was reasonably priced and ended up not being able to do any of the things I actually wanted to, and I off loaded it and spent a few years teaching myself to play the baroque recorder instead.

Now I'm back into doing some electronic music with hardware and I've spent a good while planning a small setup that is small enough to fit permanently on my desk, and versatile enough to enable me to actually make what I want to with little friction:

Circuit Tracks, PreenFM2, Zoom R8, and the one piece I'm missing that I will add at the end of the year, a Digitakt.  I can use my computer for any other needs, and I don't intend to sit doing hours of research into new toys which won't actually add anything of consequence.

[zero]

the less time I can spend starring at a screen the better. that's why I prefer analog gear. 

[cern]

13 minutes ago, zero said:

the less time I can spend starring at a screen the better. that's why I prefer analog gear. 

True and that is why I own gear also but I think if have only 2 gear on the table A good synth with a good keyboard and Seq + a drum machine Im more productive. 
The thing is that I want to take control of that GAS "Oh now I need this" "Im too limited"  "I Need this fx, this new thing" and so on.. It never stops. 

I was not buying anything in 5 years and I was only interested in gear I have. then suddenly when I bought a new synth I bought a new right after and was already then thinking of the third gear so I needed the break there. I just wanted to share that is really good to be limited also. 
 

[dcom]

As many of you have noted, I've spent an inordinate amount of time and money researching and acquiring hardware for reasons I've already explained in the GAS thread. It's actually very hard to make an informed decision about any piece of kit without getting your hands on them, trying them out for haptics and affordances, things that are impossible to deduce from tutorial and review videos, which can give you the nuts and bolts, basic sounds, workflow, and other more abstract things. I need to get the unit in my hands, feel my way around the layout, see, hear, and feel the interactivity between me and the technology - how I gel with it and what it provides.

Most people would have maxed out already - I have about 70 pieces of kit, from eurorack modules to bulky analog drum machines and desktop synths - and I think I'm very close to my saturation point, too; I think I'll start culling the superfluous soon, but there are some that I know I won't get rid of unless absolutely necessary. Up until now, I've been a maximalist, because my target environment is DAWless and I even record to a dedicated hardware device, currently 1010music's Bluebox - if I need three different monosynth sounds, I need to use three different monosynths.

I'm addicted to sequencers, and I have more than I'll ever need, but one has risen above the lot: OXI One, with the addition of OXI Split (giving me 3x16 channels of MIDI) and OXI Pipe (eurorack extension that uses HDMI to get the CV/gate out/ins directly into the rack) - it's an amazing sequencer with features up the wazoo, and it's regularly updated with new bells and whistles. In Second place is Squarp Pyramid combined with Hermod, which can be connected with a simple USB cable to use Hermod as an eurorack extension w/ 8x gate/CV outputs and 4x CV inputs to Pyramid and everything done from there (although Hermod is a brilliant eurorack sequencer even without being subservient to Pyramid). I recently got my hands on a pre-built Westlicht Per|former, an open-source (both hardware and firmware) eurorack sequencer with layers of unique features in a combination that's rarely found in similar gear - but as I got it yesterday, they jury's still out.

IDGAF about analog vs. digital, OG vs. clone, I'm looking for sound, feel, applicability, and fun. Sometimes the simplest pieces of kit are the most fun, because what you see is what you get - like a Vermona DRM MK3, or Behringer TD-3. Sometimes I want to get lost in the minutiae of absolute control, with an ASM Hydrasynth or Novation Peak - or even with something that's a combination of both hands-on and menu diving like Behringer's Deepmind 12D.

I've sat in front of my computer fudging with DAWs, mainly FL Studio, and compared to dedicated hardware it just seems lacklustre - I think the experience could be heightened with a stack of AKAI Fire controllers or Novation's FLKey 37/48/61 - but currently I prefer the company of non-DAW pieces of kit.

I think I should start to move from my (many) small pieces loosely joined philosophy towards (few) big things tightly coupled, meaning I should dump Volcas, Roland compacts, 1010music Nanoboxes, most Sonicwares etc. and replace them with things like Access Virus TI2 desktop, Vermona Perfourmer, and SOMA Pulsar 23 - to make less more. Recently I've been working with my modular setup, and having everything right there in front of you at hand's reach is just... right. The biggest hindrance to me culling the hoard is that having got to know all of the pieces I know each and every one has (sometimes unique within the set of what I have) potential, and letting go of that potential is hard.

I know restricting yourself to a strict subset of equipment can spark creativity easier than going to a state of analysis paralysis via the paradox of choice (too many choices make people default to what they know or what is familiar to them) when the mood or need to extract music from the mind arises, so it's usually beneficial to have a defined subset of equipment that responds to most of the requirements of the things you want to accomplish. I'm still looking for that subset, and it's personally advantageous that I have enough discretionary funds to feed my personal test programn with regular infusions of new kit to try out. It could go towards worse things, like recreational drugs, but I currently prefer it that way.

Sooner or later, something's got to give, and I'll let go of most of the things I know I won't use. But that time is not now, and I'll try to restrain myself and not overload the GAS thread with on-fire enthusiasm about new boxes that go plonk, thunk, bleep, whirr, or eki eki eki ta pang (unless I want a shrubbery).

Edited September 2, 2023 by dcom

[IOS]

I want this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/dw_satin_oil_studio_set_ebony.htm

and this:

https://eu.evil-bikes.com/products/offering-v2

 

[exitonly]

56 minutes ago, dcom said:

As many of you have noted, I've spent an inordinate amount of time and money researching and acquiring hardware for reasons I've already explained in the GAS thread. It's actually very hard to make an informed decision about any piece of kit without getting your hands on them, trying them out for haptics and affordances, things that are impossible to deduce from tutorial and review videos, which can give you the nuts and bolts, basic sounds, workflow, and other more abstract things. I need to get the unit in my hands, feel my way around the layout, see, hear, and feel the interactivity between me and the technology - how I gel with it and what it provides.

Most people would have maxed out already - I have about 70 pieces of kit, from eurorack modules to bulky analog drum machines and desktop synths - and I think I'm very close to my saturation point, too; I think I'll start culling the superfluous soon, but there are some that I know I won't get rid of unless absolutely necessary. Up until now, I've been a maximalist, because my target environment is DAWless and I even record to a dedicated hardware device, currently 1010music's Bluebox - if I need three different monosynth sounds, I need to use three different monosynths.

I'm addicted to sequencers, and I have more than I'll ever need, but one has risen above the lot: OXI One, with the addition of OXI Split (giving me 3x16 channels of MIDI) and OXI Pipe (eurorack extension that uses HDMI to get the CV/gate out/ins directly into the rack) - it's an amazing sequencer with features up the wazoo, and it's regularly updated with new bells and whistles. In Second place is Squarp Pyramid combined with Hermod, which can be connected with a simple USB cable to use Hermod as an eurorack extension w/ 8x gate/CV outputs and 4x CV inputs to Pyramid and everything done from there (although Hermod is a brilliant eurorack sequencer even without being subservient to Pyramid). I recently got my hands on a pre-built Westlicht Per|former, an open-source (both hardware and firmware) eurorack sequencer with layers of unique features in a combination that's rarely found in similar gear - but as I got it yesterday, they jury's still out.

IDGAF about analog vs. digital, OG vs. clone, I'm looking for sound, feel, applicability, and fun. Sometimes the simplest pieces of kit are the most fun, because what you see is what you get - like a Vermona DRM MK3, or Behringer TD-3. Sometimes I want to get lost in the minutiae of absolute control, with an ASM Hydrasynth or Novation Peak - or even with something that's a combination of both hands-on and menu diving like Behringer's Deepmind 12D.

I've sat in front of my computer fudging with DAWs, mainly FL Studio, and compared to dedicated hardware it just seems lacklustre - I think the experience could be heightened with a stack of AKAI Fire controllers or Novation's FLKey 37/48/61 - but currently I prefer the company of non-DAW pieces of kit.

I think I should start to move from my (many) small pieces loosely joined philosophy towards (few) big things tightly coupled, meaning I should dump Volcas, Roland compacts, 1010music Nanoboxes, most Sonicwares etc. and replace them with things like Access Virus TI2 desktop, Vermona Perfourmer, and SOMA Pulsar 23 - to make less more. Recently I've been working with my modular setup, and having everything right there in front of you at hand's reach is just... right. The biggest hindrance to me culling the hoard is that having got to know all of the pieces I know each and every one has (sometimes unique within the set of what I have) potential, and letting go of that potential is hard.

I know restricting yourself to a strict subset of equipment can spark creativity easier than going to a state of analysis paralysis via the paradox of choice (too many choices make people default to what they know or what is familiar to them) when the mood or need to extract music from the mind arises, so it's usually beneficial to have a defined subset of equipment that responds to most of the requirements of the things you want to accomplish. I'm still looking for that subset, and it's personally advantageous that I have enough discretionary funds to feed my personal test programn with regular infusions of new kit to try out. It could go towards worse things, like recreational drugs, but I currently prefer it that way.

Sooner or later, something's got to give, and I'll let go of most of the things I know I won't use. But that time is not now, and I'll try to restrain myself and not overload the GAS thread with on-fire enthusiasm about new boxes that go plonk, thunk, bleep, whirr, or eki eki eki ta pang (unless I want a shrubbery).

thinking you are going to find the thing that will give you the thing is the disease. it has to come from you. if you are skilled, the equipment doesn’t matter much. find the beauty in a piece if kit, and let that shape what you do. that’s all

Edited September 2, 2023 by exitonly

[cern]

22 minutes ago, IOS said:

I want this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/dw_satin_oil_studio_set_ebony.htm

and this:

https://eu.evil-bikes.com/products/offering-v2

 

GAS-Mask on The Evil bikes: Besides the already huge price I think the frame is too small for that price tag and could more easily snap.
 Here is a guy had the frame snapped (Read also comments there are many people having same issues: 

GAS-Mask on The drum set: Are you fit, skilled and in shape for drumming? We getting older and more bad in coordinate and muscle memory fades away. 
It is better to get some drum samples my friend  

Edited September 2, 2023 by cern

[cern]

Very nice words from dcom and I hope you finding a solution that fits you most. Im also the one that sees volcas etc more or less as toys. 
It is better to have some real machines in that case. 

Sequencer addiction is a rough one!  
I think you can write down some of what is bad and good with your sequencers, what you are more prioritizing and looking for. 
Then maybe later when you are ready ofc you can question yourself if it's worth having around. 
I can get annoyed at gear I never using.. Would someone come up to me and say "Hey can I buy your Volca FM for 10€?" I would say yes 
 

[IOS]

11 minutes ago, cern said:

GAS-Mask on The Evil bikes: Besides the already huge price I think the frame is too small for that price tag and could more easily snap.
 Here is a guy had the frame snapped (Read also comments there are many people having same issues: 

GAS-Mask on The drum set: Are you fit, skilled and in shape for drumming? We getting older and more bad in coordinate and muscle memory fades away. 
It is better to get some drum samples my friend  

eek it snapped. Frames come in different sizes like S, M, L etc. I already have an mtb with a Large frame, and checking a couple of bike manufacturers, it looks like Large should be perfectly fine in terms of size. I met this bike trainer and authorised Evil bikes dealer who let me try his Evil Offering for a bit, it was insane.

Drumkit wise, I don't think fitness, age and skill should be a problem. The damn problem with it is how loud it is. I think I need a shed too flol

 

@dcom speaking of sequencers, check this out: https://stochas.org/

 

[dcom]

10 minutes ago, IOS said:

@dcom speaking of sequencers, check this out: https://stochas.org/

Seems interesting, but it's software.

[dcom]

51 minutes ago, exitonly said:

thinking you are going to find the thing that will give you the thing is the disease. it as to come from you. if you are skilled, the equipment doesn’t matter much. find the beauty in a piece if kit, and let that shape what you do. that’s all

Do you mean that I compensate a lack of skill and creativity with equipment quantity? Or that I'm one of those poor people who suffer from GAS in the way that they think that if I just get that one more piece of kit I'll be able to do what I want? If you answer yes  to either or both of my questions, you'd be wrong, and flaunting theoretical superiority in the vein of "it's not how big it is, it's how you use it." But it's also a skill to know how to choose the right tool for the job.

I'm not deluding myself that owning a large number of instruments and other equipment makes me a better musician; I'm simply testing both the equipment itself and what it can do for me. None of it is magical in a GAS context, I just need to actually, physically try the instruments and other equipment out. I'm also teaching myself the ins and outs of different kinds of synths, different approaches to synthesis, different workflows and ways of controlling different aspects of the electronic music making process. I have a classical musical education, I play several traditional instruments, but electronic hardware instruments and other paraphernalia are still relatively new to me, but yeah, I could do a lot with just a Volca Drum, it's amazingly versatile for a box that small, and I love it, but I also love what the Hydrasynth has to offer.

I've been working as a computer programmer for 30+ years, and I'm also a tech enthusiast. I make music with the equipment I have, but I also love delving into the depths of mod matrices, CC and NRPN tables and how to peruse them, how I can patch, sequence, and program the devices to do things that I find interesting. I'm also neurodivergent, so spending hours and hours tinkering is my idea of a really good time.

You completely missed the point of my previous message and made what seemed to me a direct effort to show smug superiority by indirectly classifying me as musically unskilled because I have a lot of gear. I hope it made you happy.

[exitonly]

3 hours ago, dcom said:

Do you mean that I compensate a lack of skill and creativity with equipment quantity? Or that I'm one of those poor people who suffer from GAS in the way that they think that if I just get that one more piece of kit I'll be able to do what I want? If you answer yes  to either or both of my questions, you'd be wrong, and flaunting theoretical superiority in the vein of "it's not how big it is, it's how you use it." But it's also a skill to know how to choose the right tool for the job.

I'm not deluding myself that owning a large number of instruments and other equipment makes me a better musician; I'm simply testing both the equipment itself and what it can do for me. None of it is magical in a GAS context, I just need to actually, physically try the instruments and other equipment out. I'm also teaching myself the ins and outs of different kinds of synths, different approaches to synthesis, different workflows and ways of controlling different aspects of the electronic music making process. I have a classical musical education, I play several traditional instruments, but electronic hardware instruments and other paraphernalia are still relatively new to me, but yeah, I could do a lot with just a Volca Drum, it's amazingly versatile for a box that small, and I love it, but I also love what the Hydrasynth has to offer.

I've been working as a computer programmer for 30+ years, and I'm also a tech enthusiast. I make music with the equipment I have, but I also love delving into the depths of mod matrices, CC and NRPN tables and how to peruse them, how I can patch, sequence, and program the devices to do things that I find interesting. I'm also neurodivergent, so spending hours and hours tinkering is my idea of a really good time.

You completely missed the point of my previous message and made what seemed to me a direct effort to show smug superiority by indirectly classifying me as musically unskilled because I have a lot of gear. I hope it made you happy.

sure

[exitonly]

ok so its the morning now and I'm going to try to address this a little better, though my initial reaction still stands.

14 hours ago, dcom said:

Do you mean that I compensate a lack of skill and creativity with equipment quantity?

I posted my general opinion. It has to come from you. That's all I said about it. I don't know you and I don't know if you are creative, skilled or anything else. I haven't heard your music.

 

14 hours ago, dcom said:

You completely missed the point of my previous message and made what seemed to me a direct effort to show smug superiority by indirectly classifying me as musically unskilled because I have a lot of gear. I hope it made you happy.

I made a general anti-gas statement in a thread about being anti-gas and you're attacking me personally for it. I didn't intend to offend you but just giving my general opinion/advice.  You seem like a decent person in general and I don't have any problem with you but I think you need to calm down a little. I also think if you keep posting about all the gear you're buying all the time, don't freak out when someone comes along and gives you the advice of "hey maybe you dont need to do that". I wish you the best in whatever you're trying to accomplish.

[dcom]

1 hour ago, exitonly said:

I made a general anti-gas statement in a thread about being anti-gas and you're attacking me personally for it.

If your comment was a general one, you didn't have to quote my previous comment at all, let alone in full - but as you did quote my comment, a long one,  in full, it's difficult not to interpret that you're replying directly to me. Yes, I overreacted, and I apologize I flash-banged at your vagueness.

[exitonly]

1 minute ago, dcom said:

If your comment was a general one, you didn't have to quote my previous comment at all, let alone in full - but as you did quote my comment, a long one,  in full, it's difficult not to interpret that you're replying directly to me. Yes, I overreacted, and I apologize I flash-banged at your vagueness.

i mean, it was directed at you but i'd give the same advice to anyone. it wasnt intended to be personal. all good on my end