squarepusher Mastering/EQ'ing/Compressing

[Guest stolemb]

Hi there.

 

I've started some thing two days ago or so, and as always, im never happy with the sound as a whole. In this case, I want to use a pretty fuckin low bass at the start (a clear example of the type of bass im talking about can be heard since the begining of Squarepusher - My Red Hot Car).

 

The problem comes when you render your flp (I use FLStudio 7) to mp3. The mp3 sounds with less volume compared to the original flp. I tried converting to wav, same thing happens. Tried several combinations with compressors (its the multiband compressor that comes with FLStudio any good?), tried also normalizing with programs such as the Adobe's one, but it fucks up the sound becuse the bass "sucks" the rest of the things, if you know what I mean. I also played with the hz values using the Parametric EQ 2 (new, included on FLStudio 7, and the best one I ever tried if you ask me), but I can't get the proper sound im talking about. Basicly, the thing I want is that the beats sound clear, and the bass low and "subwoferish", without fuckin up the rest of the mix.

 

Btw, im using a SB Live! 5.1, can this be the cause of my mp3's sounding with less volume compared to the flp's?, its worth to get a better soundcard?

 

Thanks.

 

P.D: I can post some example of what im talking about latter if needed.

[Bubba69]

Soundcard has nothing to do with it. Most likely the internal settings of the mp3 player you use reduces volume somewhat. Also mp3 format is not very pure. What encoding settings are you using in FL studio? You should be using something like 320kbps, VBR(variable bit rate, saves some space) encoding. Sound-card does not account for this most likely. The if you want the kick to come more clearly you should use use that parameq some more. Use it on the kick drum too. You will want a kick with some mids/uppermids presence. EQ some of those out of the bass(low pass or band pass) so it lets the kick come through. You'll get better at it eventually I think.

 

EDIT: you should probably also highpass the bass around 25-30hz so that it does not cloud up the mix with subsonic offset.

[Braintree]

I usually encode wavs at 32bit float, too. Generally more depth.

[BCM]

it's not about the bit rate nescisarily - probably just to do with your levels in each seperate track. you need to mute every track except one and get that one track's level just peaking at 0dB, then do the same with all the others, then, when you play them all together, it'll be too loud, so turn down the master volume until you see the peak meter just touching into the max.

 

Save as a .wav file - 192 kbps minimum.

 

Get an external mastering processor. I use T-Racks 24 PRO and it's really good.

 

Run your tune through this using one of the suites and process making sure it all peaks at the 0dB kind of level.

 

This should sound OK....

 

The only other thing I can think of is either A: too many effects on everything making it muddy or B: your samples aren't very good quality.

[Guest stolemb]

The only other thing I can think of is either A: too many effects on everything making it muddy or B: your samples aren't very good quality.

 

A: Not possible. ATM im doing a test only with an amen and some low bass from some VST. B: I don't know, whats the best clean amen you can get? The one I have its the one from bourbon breaks webpage or something like that. About the bass: What would you guys use for a deep bass?

[BCM]

yeah, i'd use a VSTi for some nice deep bass - the Minimoog by Arturia probably, or the Minimoog VA (the free one), or the Novation V-Station is also pretty good for basses.

[Guest stolemb]

yeah, i'd use a VSTi for some nice deep bass - the Minimoog by Arturia probably, or the Minimoog VA (the free one), or the Novation V-Station is also pretty good for basses.

 

Thx, gotta check those out.

[Guest stolemb]

Ok, uploaded where I left it the other day.

 

basstest01.mp3

 

I checked with the FLStudio DB Meter that never anything goes beyond 0 DB's. Also EQ'ed a bit more. But still, sounds cheap, and thats the point of this thread. How I continue improving?

 

thanks.

 

P.D: I gotta add that while on the flp, the db metter was peaking at 0 db's, when I rendered it to wav and opened it using Adobe Audition, the db metter here said something along the lines of -15db, so I had to use the amplify tool to put it back to 0 db's. Don't ask me why.

[BCM]

for GOD SAKE, please re-upload that sample to your post so I can actually download it. You can attach things to your posts you know!

[Guest stolemb]

using the attachment feature

 

basstest01.mp3

[BCM]

using the attachment feature

 

basstest01.mp3

 

nice one - now listening...

[BCM]

i like the red hot car riff! er, it sounds perfectly ok to me....

 

well, in that there doesn't seem to be a problem with the sound quality/distortion/quietness etc. maybe the actual bass sound sounds a little cheap and this can maybe be rectified by using a different synth or preset or fucking about for ages and making your own patch.

 

but it sounds fine as far as volume and clarity goes. maybe your general windows audio settings are fucked up or something so what you're hearing's not what's actually playing but a quieter version for some reason.

 

i dunno - can anyone else hear anything wrong with this?

[Guest stolemb]

lol, nice to hear it sounds decent.

 

But you know, I find both things still cheap, and very improvable, like not sounding very profound or whatnot. Im also talking about the amen: it doesn't sound very clear, "pumping" (don't know how to call it), etc to me. How you guys would improve that, any ideas? Also, on the bass, i'll be experimenting with the VST's you mentioned before, and try to get better sound quality.

 

P.D: As you can see, this time I want to do a proper track, means I want to learn everything I can about improving sound quality before start programming beats and melodies. And at this point, im the subbass thing, I want it to sound good on a real 5.1, not just headphones and my two cheap speakers.

[Guest 2780]

fruity loops is about -0.3 db or -3 db or something when you render if i remember right so i quess it will sound a little quiter

 

also render at 512-point sinc and not 6-point hermite wich is not the best quality you can get out of FL

 

and also after rendering dont use compressors

but for example use WAVES L2 ultramaximizer it doesnt totally fuck up dynamics

[BCM]

i reckon you're asking too much mate - you're not going to get the kind of "pumping" quality you're after unless you invest in expensive studio gear and have everything mastered professionally. what you've posted above is perfectly fine - honestly. to improve to the point you want you would maybe need a hardware sampler to load in your amen, some hardware outboard effects and compression, a shit hot mixing desk, some shit hot monitors, a few synthesizers and a professional audio computer set up. cost you about ten grand minimum.

 

forget about trying to achieve the unachievable and get making some tunes!

[Fred McGriff]

yeah sounds pretty decent. i was listening to "my red hot car" when i read this btw. highpasses always help a little, like what bubba was saying. i still dont get how people like chris clark can have songs twice as loud as i can possibly make my songs without them warping all over the goddam speakers.

[Guest stolemb]

BCM, thats pretty devastating.

 

Are you sure you can't improve the sound of that amen without spending ten motherfuckin grand on equipement? I heard here people with pretty good sound quality (this was posted on the drumprogramming thread, by Jubal: asbest.mp3 , sounds good imo.. NOT Chris Clark, but you got the idea (btw, I don't know what equipement Jubal uses, but sure its not a ten grand one).

 

Now that Chris Clark has been mentioned, I gotta agree with Fred. How the fuck he does that?

 

The sound quality on Empty The Bones Of You (which is the album I know more, still hasn't got Body Riddle and Ted) its fucking insane. Take any song (for example, Cob Goitus, one of my favs) and blast it throught a 5.1... everything sounds CLEAR, but at the same time, LOUD AS HELL, and without distorting/compression effect things etc.

Now compare that album with his previous work, Ceramics Is The Bomb. While still sounding amazing, you can hear that his "excellent sound quality" trademark begins with Empty The Bones Of You. Which means he improved in no time a lot, or bought a shitload of new equipement to acomplish such a sound quality.

 

What I find weird about this guy is that got the status of "electronic music pro" in no time, compared to the rest. How Clark started to get contracted by the most important record (WARP) in such a short period of time? Anyone knows the history?

 

Fuck, I write a lot and fast.

[Guest Adjective]

yeah sounds pretty decent. i was listening to "my red hot car" when i read this btw. highpasses always help a little, like what bubba was saying. i still dont get how people like chris clark can have songs twice as loud as i can possibly make my songs without them warping all over the goddam speakers.

 

have all of your sources coming as loud as possible (not normalized after the fact) without clipping, so that all the bits (be it 8, 16 or 24, (or 32?)) are working for you. then mix them at their desired levels

making cuts of the right frequencies, like muddy zones (varies, usually somewhere between 250 hz - 800 hz). so you can cut the volume of a channel without affecting the percieved loudness.

then multi-band compressor/limiters and "loudness maximizers" found in programs like Ozone 3 that limit / boost simultaneously / "intelligently" without squaring off the tops of the waves.

[Fred McGriff]

crap i'm going to have to start expanding forth from goldwave huh

[Guest Adjective]

is there a multi-track mixer view in goldwave?

with the plug-ins listed above or similar, you can use them within goldwave probably if it supports VST or directx plugs

[Fred McGriff]

*hides under bed*

[Guest Adjective]

so do you mix/paste in a single wave editor for all your tracks?

[Fred McGriff]

yes :embrassed:

[Guest Adjective]

wow

*drops a quarter in your coffee*

 

try Multiquence maybe from the same company that makes goldwave. so you can have all the layers of your tracks and be able to adjust the levels / EQ individually without committing, run through limiters / loudness maximizers THEN you can "mixdown" afterward. your life will be a lot easier and your mixes will sound way better i'm sure.

 

try Reaper even

free (shareware with a little msg box when you start it), from one of the guys behind Winamp

[Fred McGriff]

word up i think with the new track i'm working on i'm going to mix it how i normally work then use that mulitsequence (looks like it's goldwave people) and do a pepsi challange or something