Pure Data

[Guest Tamas]

I use this other program called Bidule, it's pretty rock solid.

 

The learning curve was a bit high but I've tried maxmsp, pd, reaktor, audiomultch, and bidule, and while some of them have more functionality and some are easier, bidule I found was a good middle ground. Rather simple to connect to MIDI through your computer too and every parameter can be connected to a controller etc.

 

info about it here

[Danny O Flannagin]

You can watch the creator, Miller Puckette teach an intro class on Pd at UCSD. Here's the first lecture

 

 

Just got into using this and the possibilities are pretty mind blowing, there's something really satisfying about using powerful open source software, generating all these cool sounds without drawing from my insignificant bank account.

 

Are any of you proficient at Pd?

[Entorwellian]

I'm intermediate at it. Puckette's guides are very thick to digest but he does a thorough job at explaining DSP if you can decipher the moon language. I have an entire section dedicated to it in my webpage.

[Danny O Flannagin]

Nice, the more I read about Max vs. Pd extended, the more i feel like i don't need to drop $400 on max. I downloaded that article on math and dsp that was on your web page, there's definitely some mathematic concepts I need to brush up on

[Entorwellian]

Max has somewhat kind of come ahead with making development on multi-platforms a lot easier. Gen and Mira make coding apps far less of a hassle than having to toy around with libpd. If you are looking to make money off your patches it would probably be better to go Max.

 

If its for learning or making music, there honestly isn't any difference between the two except looks and documentation.

[Danny O Flannagin]

I'm intermediate at it. Puckette's guides are very thick to digest but he does a thorough job at explaining DSP if you can decipher the moon language. I have an entire section dedicated to it in my webpage.

I guess if your intermediate, you'd be able to answer a few questions. First off, i'm having difficulty making a decent filter. I realize it isn't as simple as plopping down a lop~, hip~, or bp~ in the signal chain and setting the frequency but i have no idea how to approach this. I'm reading a tutorial book and it said to use multiple lop~ objects in a row but that seems kind of weird. Also, when i was filtering noise with bp~ at a very high Q, it would be fine for a while but then would get louder and louder, almost like it was feedbacking. idk, any help is appreciated. I started learning pd a few weeks ago and and still working out the quirks with the language.

[logakght]

Nice, the more I read about Max vs. Pd extended, the more i feel like i don't need to drop $400 on max. I downloaded that article on math and dsp that was on your web page, there's definitely some mathematic concepts I need to brush up on

 

I would, tho. The compatibility issues drives me mad in pd.

[Entorwellian]

 

I'm intermediate at it. Puckette's guides are very thick to digest but he does a thorough job at explaining DSP if you can decipher the moon language. I have an entire section dedicated to it in my webpage.

I guess if your intermediate, you'd be able to answer a few questions. First off, i'm having difficulty making a decent filter. I realize it isn't as simple as plopping down a lop~, hip~, or bp~ in the signal chain and setting the frequency but i have no idea how to approach this. I'm reading a tutorial book and it said to use multiple lop~ objects in a row but that seems kind of weird. Also, when i was filtering noise with bp~ at a very high Q, it would be fine for a while but then would get louder and louder, almost like it was feedbacking. idk, any help is appreciated. I started learning pd a few weeks ago and and still working out the quirks with the language.

 

Yeah. Working with multiple filters at identical frequency multiplies the filtered signal more strongly so the parts that have been notched down or up are more steep than if you were to use one filter with a stronger resonance or cutoff. There is some amplitude loss when you do it so you will have to put a gain at the end of the chain. It depends on the filter types too. I find its best to use multiple filters with both butterworth filters and biquadratic filters.

[Danny O Flannagin]

 

 

I'm intermediate at it. Puckette's guides are very thick to digest but he does a thorough job at explaining DSP if you can decipher the moon language. I have an entire section dedicated to it in my webpage.

I guess if your intermediate, you'd be able to answer a few questions. First off, i'm having difficulty making a decent filter. I realize it isn't as simple as plopping down a lop~, hip~, or bp~ in the signal chain and setting the frequency but i have no idea how to approach this. I'm reading a tutorial book and it said to use multiple lop~ objects in a row but that seems kind of weird. Also, when i was filtering noise with bp~ at a very high Q, it would be fine for a while but then would get louder and louder, almost like it was feedbacking. idk, any help is appreciated. I started learning pd a few weeks ago and and still working out the quirks with the language.

 

Yeah. Working with multiple filters at identical frequency multiplies the filtered signal more strongly so the parts that have been notched down or up are more steep than if you were to use one filter with a stronger resonance or cutoff. There is some amplitude loss when you do it so you will have to put a gain at the end of the chain. It depends on the filter types too. I find its best to use multiple filters with both butterworth filters and biquadratic filters.

 

oh that makes sense. Can't remember the exact patch i had it in but i'm pretty sure i had two bp~ objects running into a *~ which could have cause runaway feedback. what is biquadratic filters? Does that have something to do with poles?

[Entorwellian]

Biquadratic filters are pretty close to what they sound like they are: a filter made from two recursive quadratic equations. It has two poles and two zeroes. So it takes the signal and the z-transformation (sample that is shifted by one either back or forth) and routes it through two feedback and three feedforward variables to calculate the amount of cancellation (i probably worded that wrong. filters are hard :( ). You can make a bandpass, bandlimited, low pass or high pass filter that is steeper and deeper than lop~, hip~ and bp~. This might be what you are looking for!

 

biquad~ is the object and it takes 5 variables that determine the feedforward and feedback amounts (usually values that range from -2 to 0 to +2)

[psn]

Also, when i was filtering noise with bp~ at a very high Q, it would be fine for a while but then would get louder and louder, almost like it was feedbacking.

Resonance in a filter is actually feedback.

[modey]

So I'm really late to the game, but a combination of getting into programming my own patches using Patchblocks and reading the max/msp thread have inspired me to finally poke around in pd. I'm currently just reading the examples and getting my head around the concepts, and it seems to be making sense so far. I have a vague aim to use it with a controller like the quneo on a raspberry pi for external midi sequencing, so haven't really even thought about using it for synthesis yet.. though I'm sure that'll come at some point.

 

From what I've seen so far it seems to be quite a bit lower level than Patchblocks.. which could be really cool for my initial idea of a sequencer that starts with a user programmed sequence, and can be 'influenced' to evolve based on parameters.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty keen to start learning about how to put things together and am on the lookout for tutorials/examples that would make my journey easier, so if anyone's got any recommendations..

[kausto]

Floss pd manual

http://en.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/

[Guest Morphy]

This dude is amazing https://acreil.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/algorithmic-composition-of-acid-house-with-lo-fi-timbres/ Free algorithmic patch download.

[Guest Morphy]

Here's another patch by him that may be useful to pick at http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/6371/72-tet-algorithmic-idm/11

[modey]

oh I remember that guy from the old tefosav days! cool, I'll give those patches a look.

[Braintree]

You can watch the creator, Miller Puckette teach an intro class on Pd at UCSD. Here's the first lecture

 

 

Just got into using this and the possibilities are pretty mind blowing, there's something really satisfying about using powerful open source software, generating all these cool sounds without drawing from my insignificant bank account.

 

Are any of you proficient at Pd?

 

 

Will definitely be checking out those lectures soon. Thanks!

[modey]

I watched the first one. It's very basic but I think it's a good start.

I'm reading over this as well:
http://pd-tutorial.com/

I put together the counter example in section 2.2.1.1.5 and then spent a little while figuring out how to get it to decrement as well as incrementing. I can imagine I'll spend many hours in the future being frustrated as to why things aren't working properly, but so far I'm not actually having much trouble grasping the concepts at this level.. Plus, I have a project in mind this time (I ordered a QuNeo yesterday with the intention of using it with pd), so everything I'm learning could eventually be used within a larger patch.

[Entorwellian]

I watched the first one. It's very basic but I think it's a good start.

 

I'm reading over this as well:

http://pd-tutorial.com/

 

I put together the counter example in section 2.2.1.1.5 and then spent a little while figuring out how to get it to decrement as well as incrementing. I can imagine I'll spend many hours in the future being frustrated as to why things aren't working properly, but so far I'm not actually having much trouble grasping the concepts at this level.. Plus, I have a project in mind this time (I ordered a QuNeo yesterday with the intention of using it with pd), so everything I'm learning could eventually be used within a larger patch.

Loadbang is probably the best tutorial out there for PD if you want to get making stuff right away. It's definitely not comprehensive but its arguably the friendliest way to learn.

[modey]

Just gotta say, pd is really clicking for me so far (~1 week in). The moments of frustration are starting to be eclipsed by moments of thinking I'm a fkn genius just for getting something to work, hah. All I've done so far is emulate the very base level of sequencer behaviour of nanoloop (ie. 4 tracks with independent lengths and tempo divisions), but it's very satisfying.. plus it's really triggering my technical/precision visual design boner..

[viscosity]

I'm thinking about looking into SuperCollider myself. Any good resources like those Floss manuals, but for SC? Anyone know any good tracks composed entirely in SC or PD? Seems incredibly daunting, but creating music with an ebb and flow ala AE would be awesome. I love their generative stuff, how it's all tied together and can crash into itself in such a mindbending way.

[logakght]

you'll like Mark Fell.

 

I'm thinking about looking into SuperCollider myself. Any good resources like those Floss manuals, but for SC? Anyone know any good tracks composed entirely in SC or PD? Seems incredibly daunting, but creating music with an ebb and flow ala AE would be awesome. I love their generative stuff, how it's all tied together and can crash into itself in such a mindbending way.

 

Also there's a book called "Gentle introduction to SuperCollider" which I love and I think is the best way to start

[modey]

fuuuck, I'm really progressing pretty quickly with pd.. my little nanoloop clone isn't quite where I want it to be but I've almost got the basic sequencer element sorted out. So far, the features are:

- Tempo from 30–1000bpm, controllable from a 1–127 input. Needs a bit of work since my scaling setup is pretty rudimentary at the moment—it's non-linear but the curve could be a lot deeper tbh.

- Tempo division by 1/2/4/8 per channel; when dividing the tempo it'll know where it needs to be so things don't get thrown out of sequence

- Up to 16 steps per channel/track, in a 4x4 grid, with individual sequence length per channel. Needs some work, since it doesn't quite work the same way as the tempo division, and can get thrown out of sequence when switching to a smaller number and back again. I'm not sure how to figure this one out other than having every length of the sequence running at once and switching between all 16 (a nightmare to set up).

- Basic parameter lock style system—select the notes you want to edit, and control with a slider. Currently only working for notes, but it can output 0–127 per step, so it can be applied to anything. I'm hoping to implement a +/– control for it (like in nanoloop) rather than a slider, so it can "gang" increase/decrease different values per step instead of making everything jump to one value. Perhaps if I'm really cocky I could make it so the slider just scales everything relatively, but my pd math knowledge is pretty basic at the moment.. maybe one day.

- Current position and pattern length displayed on note grid using toggles—this took forever to get right, and I'm still not sure if what I did is a complete hack or not, but it does its job.

 

I'm building it with the QuNeo in mind, since it can accept MIDI notes in order to trigger the pad and fader LEDs. This way I'm hoping to have an entirely screen-less sequencer that is basically a slightly more flexible version of nanoloop 2. I've got a very basic oscillator in it at the moment just for testing, but it's starting to build up with more features so that may end up being one of the synth engines in it. I'm having an unusual amount of fun doing this!

[Alcofribas]

i would love to get into this but what you just described would take me like 18 years to figure out lol

[modey]

haha I thought I'd be the same when I started tbh. Things really start to build up quickly, especially considering the stuff you put together while learning/playing around can be used to make larger patches.