easily the smartest thing ever said about electronic music

[sneaksta303]

i have nothing to off this thread atm as i just got my mohawk (lol, yeah srsy) and i'm itchy as fuck, but there waqs a lot of good discussion in this thread. A+ work guise!

[perunamuusi]

I wish simon reynolds would stfu with his gay "Hardcore Continuum"^TM bullshit

 

he was annoying in NME or Melody Maker whicherver one it was

 

and he is unbearable in the Wire which goes without saying since it is the most embarassing load of pretentious middle class Wank on a newsagent's shelf except for maybe wallpaper or whatever the fuck all those post modern style mags for 90s babymen are called

[chenGOD]

I wish simon reynolds would stfu with his gay "Hardcore Continuum"^TM bullshit

 

he was annoying in NME or Melody Maker whicherver one it was

 

and he is unbearable in the Wire which goes without saying since it is the most embarassing load of pretentious middle class Wank on a newsagent's shelf except for maybe wallpaper or whatever the fuck all those post modern style mags for 90s babymen are called

 

 

a) Simon Reynolds is a cunt.

b) see a.

[pcock]

bartok is shit hot

[Alcofribas]

william basinski featured in the sept issue of wire.

 

juss sayin

[chenGOD]

bartok is shit hot

 

 

lately I've been all about the chopin nocturnes. Op. 9 no.1 in Bflat minor...so amazingly beautiful. I'm trying to learn it, but not enough time to practice sadly, and while it's not the hardest piece in the world, some of the runs in the beginning are a bit tricky with the right hand playing against the left hand.

[pcock]

its not the hardest piece in the world, but working out runs of 22/21/19 notes to 18/20 notes and playing them detachedly and melodically seperate against triplets in the left hand is a motherfucking bitch. i recently learnt No.18 in E major for my first diploma, love that piece so much. gets unusually fiery for a chopin nocturne too, almost remeniscent of a ballade.

 

compound timing gets on my nerves, i love scriabin to bits, but sometimes i just wonder if everything is 5 and 7 against 3 or 2 just to piss me the hell off all the time.

[chenGOD]

its not the hardest piece in the world, but working out runs of 22/21/19 notes to 18/20 notes and playing them detachedly and melodically seperate against triplets in the left hand is a motherfucking bitch. i recently learnt No.18 in E major for my first diploma, love that piece so much. gets unusually fiery for a chopin nocturne too, almost remeniscent of a ballade.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about...there's one where it's like 21 over 12 or something like that...lol. Rubinstein does it beautifully, goddamn motherfucker...

I know the one you're talking about, yeah it's pretty playful...

 

5 against 3 isn't too bad, that's about my limit for doing them just intuitively though...otherwse it's just loads of fucking practice.

[perunamuusi]

b7

 

 

read the fucking rules for once in your life

[doorjamb]

"Electronic music strives to create experiences instead of describing them."

 

No. electronic music is created by electronic musicians, who, like any other type of musician, cannot be categorized generically. to say all electronic musicians strive for one thing is like saying all poets or stone sculptors strive for one effect.

 

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[Guest EDGEY]

"________________ strives to create experiences instead of describing them."

 

"watmm strives to create experiences instead of describing them."

 

..next.

[Guest theSun]

 

"watmm strives to create experiences instead of describing them."

 

 

easily the smartest thing ever said about watmm

[Guest Mirezzi]

WATMM strives to describe created experiences rather than experience them.

[playbynumbers]

i can't totally get behind this because it seems like you're either splitting hairs, simplifying or not delineating the difference between creating an atmosphere and describing one. for instance, radio amor by tim hecker is, basically, a narrative in sound of hecker's experience on a boat in honduras. and this is communicated perfectly through the music and found sound, with the later tracks becoming more intense (azure azure) representing a storm and then the calm after it (trade winds, white heat). and you don't need lyrics to communicate this, they would simply be redundant (the song titles aptly describe the track and then the musical imagery, or whatever you want to call it, the choice of sounds and textures, brings you into the "story" of the album). so i think this music is descriptive without literally describing the experience, but then it's also representative or impressionistic because taken without context you might be able to separate the tracks from the overall album and project your own experience onto them. and then it also creates the experience of being lost at sea for the listener. but then this is one of the better albums in the last decade.

 

a very good album, for sure. but i think you already made my point for me; if tim hecker had some sort of spoken-word monologue on 'bridge' tracks between the longer tracks, describing this storm, or sung lyrics during the ambient-ish tracks (lol), then it would have been describing his experience more than creating a new experience for the listener.

 

now of course there isn't some clear stark contrast between "describing" and "creating"; it's a spectrum, or a continuum, and you can never totally have one or the other. but electronic music, in my experience, goes far more towards the 'creating' end of the spectrum. again, think of radio amor as it actually is, and then radio amor with spoken-word bits and lyrics; both create/describe an experience, but the version that's non-"electronic" (in the sense of falling more in the standards of modern western music; explicit narrative, lyrics, etc.; even though the instrumentation is obviously still technically electronic even if you add lyrics), that version will fall more on the side of referring you back to tim hecker's experience. it's also very worth noting that with his (hypothetical) lyrics in the way, you would find it difficult to experience radio amor as anything other than an experience in a boat off the coast of honduras --- for example, i didn't know that this was what radio amor referred to before reading your post, and i had imagined the album quite differently. so in that sense, radio amor is (as such) more 'creative' or more fertile than it would be otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

think of spiritual or ritualistic drumming, it was specifically designed to let the listener go into an ecstatic or hypnotic state without the use of lyrics. some under the influence of ayahuasca or mushrooms

 

this is why i said 'modern western music'; you and yegg are quite correct about other forms of music. though i would say that the majority of western music, going back before the modern, is still based in language (odes, hymns)

 

 

 

i think i remember this quote from Generation Ecstacy; so the appropriate context for what he said are the raves and clubs that he was talking about in it. The act of going to the club, taking E and being in a state of trance was the experience.

 

yeah, i remember it being in that context, so there you go; but i think he meant it to apply more generally, or at least it certainly seems applicable more generally (also he didn't say "rave music", he said "electronic music").

 

 

 

 

 

and he is unbearable in the Wire which goes without saying since it is the most embarassing load of pretentious middle class Wank on a newsagent's shelf except for maybe wallpaper or whatever the fuck all those post modern style mags for 90s babymen are called

 

hence my saying in the first post that simon reynolds is usually annoying, but ...

[sinicalypse]

from simon reynolds, who has his moments, despite everything:

 

"Electronic music strives to create experiences instead of describing them."

 

 

 

 

(i have no clue where i found this originally.)

 

what?!@ pfft. ok i got you, sitting in a hotel room in like 2000 or 2001 (the usual ounec of weed some coke and a couple'a chicks routine) i get bored and had this book from my library about the history of electronic music (my guy joe plucked it and showed me cuz there was an OG picture of aphex twin in his logoed shirt) and in one chapter they get squarepusher talking about him and junglists and he says "there are people who innovate [(him) and there are people who form groups (junglists)]

 

OH OH SK;DJGFASKL;DJFSL; fuck how can i forget the squarepusher quote i heard live?!@ 2004 show @ the metro in chicago... dj acucrack was there i've known him (fan/artist wise i mean) since he was in the str8up acumen industrial band before he settled down with a laptop and a table as dj?acucrack (he's also a soundman @ the house of blues) so he sees me after the >[] set and is like come back here, and like i do and there's tom backstage... now i'm like ZOMFGWTFBBQ;FJDS;JFASDJF like quite honestly, i have nothing to say to tom jenkinson in this situation. not even "quite good" or anything whatever i gave him a high five as he walked by and he looked at me as if i was the most visceral piss-beer drinking american slothralopithicus that he had seen since the last time his eyes scanned the crowd, and i'm like "yeah" so as he's walking away (he wasn't trying to hang and take pictures with people, let's be real) this tall black dreaded british junglist guy (i've recognized him @ weeklies and shit) is like "YO MATE THAT SET WAS PROPER MENTAL... WICKED SHIT, SELECTOR, TELL ME, HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT SHIT?!@" and tom, withdrawn, is like "...man i really don't want to talk about that right now" and was a little but muttering near the end and the junglist dude was insisting and insisting so tom kind of like snapped back a half of a step, looked around in a fit of mini-mentalism, and then looked the guy dead in the eyes and said "I FIND PROBLEMS AND I MAKE SOLUTIONS!@#$" and he stormed off into the back-back-back stage or whatever.

 

i was just like... whoa. i mean tommy boy was selling those mad-scientist equation shirts at the show, the ultravisitor tour proper in 04 (cuz the 03 show had some shit off of it too) but yeah, taht floored me, and i know why squarepusher is my 2nd favorite musician ever: he keeps it so real cuz he's unreal. that's my guy. keep on keepin on superjunglist tommy (i invented the term "superjungle" when i read that original quote from the e-music book before, cuz i had to describe him as such)

[Alcofribas]

omglol, what are you talking about?

[chenGOD]

pbn...I don't see how you can discount non-lyrical jazz, symphonic, chamber, and other "classical" works.

Even Bach's choral works create an experience rtaher than describe them (Bach would never have tried to describe his Heavenly Father)...

 

The quote works if you insert "instrumental" instead of electronic...

[Guest Enter a new display name]

i can't totally get behind this because it seems like you're either splitting hairs, simplifying or not delineating the difference between creating an atmosphere and describing one. for instance, radio amor by tim hecker is, basically, a narrative in sound of hecker's experience on a boat in honduras. and this is communicated perfectly through the music and found sound, with the later tracks becoming more intense (azure azure) representing a storm and then the calm after it (trade winds, white heat). and you don't need lyrics to communicate this, they would simply be redundant (the song titles aptly describe the track and then the musical imagery, or whatever you want to call it, the choice of sounds and textures, brings you into the "story" of the album). so i think this music is descriptive without literally describing the experience, but then it's also representative or impressionistic because taken without context you might be able to separate the tracks from the overall album and project your own experience onto them. and then it also creates the experience of being lost at sea for the listener. but then this is one of the better albums in the last decade.

 

a very good album, for sure. but i think you already made my point for me; if tim hecker had some sort of spoken-word monologue on 'bridge' tracks between the longer tracks, describing this storm, or sung lyrics during the ambient-ish tracks (lol), then it would have been describing his experience more than creating a new experience for the listener.

 

now of course there isn't some clear stark contrast between "describing" and "creating"; it's a spectrum, or a continuum, and you can never totally have one or the other. but electronic music, in my experience, goes far more towards the 'creating' end of the spectrum. again, think of radio amor as it actually is, and then radio amor with spoken-word bits and lyrics; both create/describe an experience, but the version that's non-"electronic" (in the sense of falling more in the standards of modern western music; explicit narrative, lyrics, etc.; even though the instrumentation is obviously still technically electronic even if you add lyrics), that version will fall more on the side of referring you back to tim hecker's experience. it's also very worth noting that with his (hypothetical) lyrics in the way, you would find it difficult to experience radio amor as anything other than an experience in a boat off the coast of honduras --- for example, i didn't know that this was what radio amor referred to before reading your post, and i had imagined the album quite differently. so in that sense, radio amor is (as such) more 'creative' or more fertile than it would be otherwise.

That is quite an interesting, since Radio Amor is a very personal album and probably among the best things I ever heard. I don't think Tim Hecker has to tell the listener that Radio Amor is based on his experience in Honduras (although the cover art is a big clue). I associate this album to my own personal experiences rather than a some guy's trip in Honduras. If I listened to Radiohead instead, for instance, I would have to think of their music as described in the lyrics instead of only interpreting textures like Tim Hecker does.

 

By the way we can all agree that lyrics added to Tim Hecker's music would affect his unique sound in a bad way.

 

The meaning of the quote stated by playbynumbers is quite correct, if we consider this sentence aims instrumental electronic music (lyrical electronic music being often labeled as pop, which is a genre apart from electronic music). I think the opinion on an album is based on the circumstances rather than the music itself, hence "creating an experience". The best example that comes in mind is Boards Of Canada. Nevertheless, I would not think this quote would only apply to electronic music. Any composer/producer with various influences outside of electronic music could create an experience to the listeners.

[Guest theSun]

i don't pay attention to lyrics anyways. singers are always d00shbags. always

[playbynumbers]

pbn...I don't see how you can discount non-lyrical jazz, symphonic, chamber, and other "classical" works.

Even Bach's choral works create an experience rtaher than describe them (Bach would never have tried to describe his Heavenly Father)...

 

The quote works if you insert "instrumental" instead of electronic...

 

 

 

i actually mostly agree with this, and actually said as much earlier --- i think reynolds' point really only applies to 20th century music (or more narrowly, electronic music concerts versus rock music concerts), and only somewhat more beyond that (back to the 17th-19th centuries). so you're right, though i will say though that most symphonic/classical work has an explicit theme or 'narrative'; hence the titles for sonatas, or even the titles of each movement in something like wagner's ring cycle. but i agree that instrumental music is much closer to electronic music in the sense that reynolds is talking about.

 

also i must confess, the reynolds quotation SEEMED a lot more brilliant two or three days ago; hmm. i hope it doesn't just break down to "if there aren't lyrics, there's more impressionism!" because i thought it was saying something more than that.

[awepittance]

 

 

this is why i said 'modern western music'; you and yegg are quite correct about other forms of music. though i would say that the majority of western music, going back before the modern, is still based in language (odes, hymns)

 

 

thats just one example though, there are countless examples of instrumental western modern music predating electronic.

 

[

also i must confess, the reynolds quotation SEEMED a lot more brilliant two or three days ago; hmm. i hope it doesn't just break down to "if there aren't lyrics, there's more impressionism!" because i thought it was saying something more than that.

 

im pretty sure that's what he's saying....

[chenGOD]

pbn...I don't see how you can discount non-lyrical jazz, symphonic, chamber, and other "classical" works.

Even Bach's choral works create an experience rtaher than describe them (Bach would never have tried to describe his Heavenly Father)...

 

The quote works if you insert "instrumental" instead of electronic...

 

 

 

i actually mostly agree with this, and actually said as much earlier --- i think reynolds' point really only applies to 20th century music (or more narrowly, electronic music concerts versus rock music concerts), and only somewhat more beyond that (back to the 17th-19th centuries). so you're right, though i will say though that most symphonic/classical work has an explicit theme or 'narrative'; hence the titles for sonatas, or even the titles of each movement in something like wagner's ring cycle. but i agree that instrumental music is much closer to electronic music in the sense that reynolds is talking about.

 

also i must confess, the reynolds quotation SEEMED a lot more brilliant two or three days ago; hmm. i hope it doesn't just break down to "if there aren't lyrics, there's more impressionism!" because i thought it was saying something more than that.

 

Well the Wagner ring cycle is lyrical, if i might put a fine point on it...lol

 

But yeah I'm pretty sure it breaks down to "instrumental lyric is more open to interpretation". For example, Debussy's piece "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" is wide open to an experience, even though it has a title.

 

But yes obviously a rave is more about creating your own experience than having one described to you. I wish I didn't have to work right now, I could go into some more detail...

[thehauntingsoul]

WATMM strives to describe created experiences rather than experience them.

 

this

 

And in response to the thread, I think that what quote really means is that electronic music tends to give people abstract experiences that defy explanation, while most other music is generally describing a specific experience. You could defeat the quote by saying that all music creates an experience but thats just using the flaw in the wording.

 

I think the ultimate point here is that electronic music is exploring the possibilities and most other types of music are just going around in circles when it comes to creating something fresh and new.

 

Thats how I interpret it anyways

[Guest ezkerraldean]

electronic music strives to be THE FUCKING SHIT

[playbynumbers]

Well the Wagner ring cycle is lyrical, if i might put a fine point on it...lol

 

lol yeah don't mind me, i have the "wagner ohne lyrik" or whatever, the one without the opera singing over it.

 

 

 

But yeah I'm pretty sure it breaks down to "instrumental lyric is more open to interpretation". For example, Debussy's piece "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" is wide open to an experience, even though it has a title.

 

But yes obviously a rave is more about creating your own experience than having one described to you. I wish I didn't have to work right now, I could go into some more detail...

 

yes.