headphones

[Guest quadramoray]

Hello.

I'm looking for some new headphones.

Sometimes I work on music in coffeeshops or other public places.

Right now I have a pair of sennheiser HD280 pros, and when i wear

them it probably looks like I'm coordinating an air raid.

So I'm looking for a new pair under 100$ that is relatively small

but will give me an accurate, quality representation of my music.

any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

No ed hardy shit please.

[sidewinder]

I like my Sennheiser PMX 100 headphones. Been using them at work for a few years. I use Sennheiser CX-300 earbuds for when I'm out and about. I like the sound quality and that they block out a good amount of noise without blocking everything and making me paranoid that I can't hear what's around me. I just hate the asymmetrical cord.

[Guest assegai]

I like my Sennheiser PMX 100 headphones. Been using them at work for a few years. I use Sennheiser CX-300 earbuds for when I'm out and about. I like the sound quality and that they block out a good amount of noise without blocking everything and making me paranoid that I can't hear what's around me. I just hate the asymmetrical cord.

 

I have the same ones and although the quality is great for the price... I can't fucking stand the cord, the left ear pops out constantly.

[Tessier Ashpool]

I've got the same cans (Hd-580's)now, but if you're looking for something a little different you might check out the Grado SR-60's. I used to have a pair and they are a little less warm than the Senns but do (in my opinion) a little better job with precision and soundstage. Great for making music because of the precision, and pretty darn cheap for what you're getting.

 

Downsides are they are open ear (though, really, lots of sound leakage with the HD-580's too) and the bass is a little lax.

Overall, though, worth a look.

[Guest Ominous]

I know nothing about sound quality; but i'm intrigued by the headphones below (~$70):

 

 

specs: http://www.aiaiai.dk/headphones/tracks-headphone-black.html

[sidewinder]

I like my Sennheiser PMX 100 headphones. Been using them at work for a few years. I use Sennheiser CX-300 earbuds for when I'm out and about. I like the sound quality and that they block out a good amount of noise without blocking everything and making me paranoid that I can't hear what's around me. I just hate the asymmetrical cord.

 

I have the same ones and although the quality is great for the price... I can't fucking stand the cord, the left ear pops out constantly.

I have no problem with them popping out (unless I snag the cord on something), I just find the part going from left to right behind my neck constantly annoying me. And the rubber is weird...it doesn't have any weight, and sticks easily to your hand going in your pocket (rather than your hand sliding along it), for example, which results in tugging at your ear. I can't believe I've put up with them for about 2 years now. I'd love to get something else but the sound is good and I'm afraid to waste money on something that could be inferior.

[Guest Great Maker ShaiHulud]

Sennheiser PX200s are less than $50, and have surprisingly good isolation for such small headphones. They are also foldable.

 

HD-25 IIs (SP or the full on broadcast version) are a step up, but are well over $100 usually. I'd ebay them though.

 

BTW both of the above sound better than the HD280s in my opinion (I own all of these), but you probably won't match the isolation or neutrality.

 

The Grado recommendation is weird -- they are in no way meant to be analytical, not to mention they're the most open headphones ever -- absolutely no sound isolation, so not good for working in public. If you use those to work on your music, that is represntative of only a very small fraction of the equipment most people will use to listen to it.

 

btw these are grados:

 

 

Not exactly air raid, more like radar tech.

[J3FF3R00]

Hello.

I'm looking for some new headphones.

Sometimes I work on music in coffeeshops or other public places.

Right now I have a pair of sennheiser HD280 pros, and when i wear

them it probably looks like I'm coordinating an air raid.

So I'm looking for a new pair under 100$ that is relatively small

but will give me an accurate, quality representation of my music.

any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

No ed hardy shit please.

 

check out THIS SITE.

It has all of the answers you need.

 

 

You're welcome in advance.

[Guest Scrypt]

Hello, quadmoray. I've lurked on WTMM for ages but had to join just to respond to you.

 

I'm a studio musician who has also written reviews for Head-fi (not that that's a mark of distinction -- anyone can write reviews). Because you asked for a small form factor and accuracy/quality (as opposed to heaps of bass), I recommend the venerable Etymotic ER6i. They tend to go for over $100 most places, but the black-corded model with gray flanges goes for about $78 on the erwin computer store site. They're no match for Shure e5s and so forth ($350!), but they're far clearer and more accurate than other companies' entry-level earphones.

 

One caveat: These are isolating earphones: Great for concentration in a cafe but never for conversation. They should also never be worn while driving, as you won't hear people honking or telling you to watch out.

 

Tracks won't sound big on ER-6is, but they'll sound amazingly detailed. Your music will become a miniature bioluminescent creature seen perfectly. Arrangements will sound stratified -- like autopsies in the Wii game Trauma Center -- only photorealistic.

 

I happen to love Grados, which were mentioned here above (I've got HF1s, RS-1s and a pair of Alessandro MS 2i). Unfortunately, they will look as odd in cafes as your Sennheisers, and produce enough noise to annoy others in quiet places because they are open headphones. Others recommended DT-770s, which are incredibly comfortable but are also semi-open and conducive to a dork-like visage.

 

I'd stick with reference earphones as your ideal. You've already got full-sized closed reference headphones (better for your uses than open) and they make you feel self-conscious.

[Guest Franklin]

Hello, quadmoray. I've lurked on WTMM for ages but had to join just to respond to you.

 

I'm a studio musician who has also written reviews for Head-fi (not that that's a mark of distinction -- anyone can write reviews). Because you asked for a small form factor and accuracy/quality (as opposed to heaps of bass), I recommend the venerable Etymotic ER6i. They tend to go for over $100 most places, but the black-corded model with gray flanges goes for about $78 on the erwin computer store site. They're no match for Shure e5s and so forth ($350!), but they're far clearer and more accurate than other companies' entry-level earphones.

 

One caveat: These are isolating earphones: Great for concentration in a cafe but never for conversation. They should also never be worn while driving, as you won't hear people honking or telling you to watch out.

 

Tracks won't sound big on ER-6is, but they'll sound amazingly detailed. Your music will become a miniature bioluminescent creature seen perfectly. Arrangements will sound stratified -- like autopsies in the Wii game Trauma Center -- only photorealistic.

 

I happen to love Grados, which were mentioned here above (I've got HF1s, RS-1s and a pair of Alessandro MS 2i). Unfortunately, they will look as odd in cafes as your Sennheisers, and produce enough noise to annoy others in quiet places because they are open headphones. Others recommended DT-770s, which are incredibly comfortable but are also semi-open and conducive to a dork-like visage.

 

I'd stick with reference earphones as your ideal. You've already got full-sized closed reference headphones (better for your uses than open) and they make you feel self-conscious.

 

 

incredibly thoughtful and informative first post dude. I suggest you also check out the following site which may interest you: SITE

[Guest we_kill_soapscum]

sony MDRs

they are teh standard everywhere, really

 

light enough to take around

bad enuff to master things

 

i love em, use em at hoem and both radio stations i work at, they are durable except the STUPID curly cable

[Rubin Farr]

Everyone at my new job has the same white ear buds, like the drones they are. At least mine are Sony MDR and not those Apple shits.

[chim]

sennheiser 215's here..

 

they are kinda shitty, bad high end and bass representation but i've grown waaaay too used to them. i can relate to the air raid thing

[Guest viscosity]

i've posted in other headphone threads before but i got some nasty akg k701 cans and they sound vury good to me paired with a tube amp.

 

more then double your budget but if you save, or maybe just get something a bit lesser im sure you'll be satisfied. sennheiser has great stuff also

[Guest Scrypt]

Thanks for the kind welcome, Franklin.

 

incredibly thoughtful and informative first post dude. I suggest you also check out the following site which may interest you: SITE

 

BTW: Every single moo-hanking link in this thread is in ALL CAPS and leads to the WATMM FAQ, which makes me want to post this:

 

Good comments, everyone! Headphones are 天氣涼了~要注意身體喔 (@~@).

 

Anyways, here's that RODENT TOUPEE GLUE REMOVER you asked about -- the laydeez won't leave my chinchilla alone ever since it started using it.

 

[submitted seconds after your complaint by sParKlE-mEMe: post count 001]

[BCM]

I got some AKG K518 cans the other day - around the £50/$100 mark.... I am very pleased with them indeed. Recommended.

[Candiru]

I have Sennheiser HD 555's and they are sex for my ears.

[ascdi]

I must disagree with the Grado and Etymotic recommendations in this thread.

 

I have SR-80s, and while they are pretty good for listening to certain music, they are terrible for making music (in my opinion). To my ears, they have a sort of "laid-back" sound and do not represent the true dynamics of the music well. It's very hard to mix on them, and to know how mixes will translate from them to other systems and speakers.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, they are completely open, so you will hear everything around you and everyone around you will hear what you are listening to. In general, I find trying to make music on open headphones to be difficult.

 

I had some ER-6i's for a while and while the isolation was incredible (basically like wearing earplugs—great for my commute and riding the train, etc), they had NO BASS whatsoever. From what I read, this is sometimes an issue if you aren't wearing them properly or whatever, but I tried every ear tip inserted every which way into my ear and still could get almost no bass out of them at all. I suspect that even in a perfect situation, they still have very little bass (and I noticed recently that the Amazon description has been revised to say that the frequency response only goes down to 50hz—bad news for music making).

 

I don't need SUPER SUB bass in most situations, but the Etymotics for me were lacking even mid and a good deal of "high" bass as well. I'm talking, listening to Benga on them and not hearing even a whisper of the bass line. Even for rock music, which is generally an easier task bass-wise (usually there's a good amount of higher harmonics in a bass guitar to latch on to), I found entire sections of bass lines completely inaudible. It was a big bummer, and I sold these to a friend for this reason.

 

So yeah, not the best for music making.

 

I've always had good luck with Sony closed headphones for music making. They're not the most accurate or neutral, but for electronic music I think they work for me really well. Also, I'm very used to how they sound at this point. The MDR-V700DJ phones (these are the common ones you see everywhere) are what I have now, and I'm fine with them. They're not super-comfortable on my head, but they're okay. They are pretty bulky though.

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to type "music making" a few more times. Music making, music making

[Guest Scrypt]

Ascdi:

 

I disagree with you on certain points and will explain why, but I don't want to be obnoxious about it. If I sound emphatic, it's only because I've been thinking about this for decades (as you might have done as well, for all I know).

 

Yes, the Grado recommendation is wrong -- but only because this person wants closed and inconspicuous headphones under $100, and nothing by Grado that's decent goes for that little. Grados are also wrong subjectively (i.e., in your and my opinion) because they tend to color the sound. But the same is true of many of the Sennheisers people recommend, including some of the most respected and timeless models (HD-580, 600, 650).

 

Also: I'd never recommend SR-80s for anything. I (personally) have to move to the RS series for Grados to make sense in a real mixing situation.

 

On the other hand, it's a mistake to always equate music-making with mixing. I've been to at least four studios in New York in which the studio rooms were filled with SR-125s. Live musicians (drummers, guitarists) often like the sound, and Grados tend to be good for that situation, where energy is as important as accuracy (SR-125s are fairly detailed in that situation). BTW: I've never heard anyone else describe Grados as "laid-back" -- especially in relation to Sennheisers. Most find Grados misleadingly forward, the exception being the GS-1000. Perhaps the SR-80s only seemed that way because they lacked the highs of the SR-125s (which, of course, some audiophiles consider "too bright").

 

Re your comments about the ER-6i: I see two possible reasons for your findings.

 

(1) You used the original ER6 rather than the ER-6i, for which the tips were inadequate and bass was affected. However, the high range was definitely reference level. I sent mine back for the simple reason that boosted highs are what kill people's hearing in subways.

 

The natural tendency is to turn up the volume because the bass is lacking. This also turns up the high frequencies, which people tend not to notice. Extended exposure to loud highs is a frequent cause of tinnitus. The ER-6i has slightly relaxed highs, which is good, because in common situations in which isolating earphones are used (such as in cafes), people tend to turn up the volume, which, again, will prevent accurate mixes in the long run (E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!).

 

(2) Are you forgetting that the initial question concerned mobile use and noisy environments? Name one respected musician who mixes under those conditions!

 

(2) You're a basshead and don't even realize it. People often equate good sound with exaggerated bass -- even reasonably tasteful, slightly exaggerated bass. In fact, a flat frequency range is the best for making music no matter how unexciting it sounds.

 

One reason I suspect this is because you advocate using Sony MDR-V700DJ, which a lot of DJs like but which are laughed at (no offense) by nearly every engineer I know. Those phones muddy things up and never deliver the flatness engineers need.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to like your 700s and use them. I'm not imploring you to stop -- esp. since they inspire you (or at least don't interfere with your inspiration) -- or that your music is somehow lacking just because you use them. I'm only saying you're being inconsistent speaking of neutrality and matching common listening conditions/systems while scorning high-end Grados and promoting MDR-700DJs. I agree that Sony makes really useful average-quality reference headphones. But in my view, the V700DJ isn't one of them. And spec'd frequency range-emphasis is never the full story.

 

Because I make most of my living arranging, composing and playing keyboards in studios in New York (I made a living solely as a musician until recently, when I decided to think like Charles Ives), I'm in a unique position to see what my coworkers use. Without a doubt, the two most common headphones are the Sony MDR-7506 (called the MDR-V6 in the early 90s) and AKG 501s. Occasionally, I see Grados; rarely, Sennheisers (usually on the head of a studio owner). If I played classical music for a living (instead of at home), perhaps I'd see more Senns.

 

People routinely complain about a lack of bass with the 7506. Yet, in the mid-90s, I'd come in at the beginning of a session and find the best engineers reviewing tracks with those same headphones: turning the volume down so as not to be tricked into liking a sound by the ear's natural attenuator (which kicks in at high volumes, which is why we see idiots getting excited in the rehearsal studios we pass: loudness in the room creates the illusion of good sound, which is also why La Monte Young went astray), looking for dropouts, hum, weak part sounds, audible bad punches, empty areas of the frequency range, questionable performances, etc. Audiophiles would have laughed at those headphones or, worse, arrogantly suggested that the music recorded by said engineers was worse because of their listening equipment. All of that is backseat fanboy nonsense.

 

You're onto something when you talk about ideal headphones being the ones that translate to a number of different work situations, which is why no one should mix in a crowded noisy room wearing isolating earphones. However, lots of us should record tangents, roughs and basic ideas that way! We should sing out ideas in crappy hotel rooms and lobbies and scribble on music paper and plug in makeshift systems at claustrophobic family get-togethers. The illusion of escape opens doorways in artists' heads.

 

I agree with you; that's why it's good to listen under different circumstances and with different headphones and speakers. Mixing in studios, everyone listens on the small and large monitors; we're careful to listen at low volumes as well as loud ones; we go into the lounge during breaks to order bad takeout and check final versions on crappy consumer pieces of shit. And we make sure said mixes sound good on lush expensive kit because we part of the reason we make music is to revel in it under the best conditions.

 

But that's only part of the reason.

 

I've found Etymotics to be particularly good for checking basic tracks because I hate being fooled by grandeur. People who crave a huge soundstage will always hate Etys, as every pair I've ever tried has none. However, I personally think in terms of string arrangements, synths and sampled parts because that's my job; I particularly like counterpoint and use it at every excuse. Details are what matter to me personally and I can hear them using Etys. I daresay certain kinds of electronic music could be mixed on them -- lots of tracks by Benge, for example. (Stephen Betke would have a harder time!)

 

Besides which, the OP wants to spend under a hundred dollars. As far as I ken, Ken, the only true reference phones at that price point are all full-sized.

 

I must disagree with the Grado and Etymotic recommendations in this thread. . . . Forgot to type "music making" a few more times. Music making, music making

[BCM]

i didn't realise you wanted phones for music making - the AKGs i recommended are better for music listening. i use Audio-technica ATH-T44s for music making - also around £50/$100 (probably less actually). seem pretty solid so far - semi open design though so not ideal for use in public (quite a lot of sound leakage).

[Guest Scrypt]

Edit:

 

I see three possible reasons for your findings: (1), (2), (3). . . .

 

I'm going to have to adjust to WATMM's maximum post edit threshold.

[Tessier Ashpool]

Just briefly, wanted to say thanks to Scrypt. Wonderfully thorough posts from someone who a)seems to have a lot of experience in what they are talking about and b)is willing to realize (and state) that listening is often subjective.

 

And, to call myself out, yes, the Grado recommendation I made is probably not the right one for busy environments due to the open-ear nature. I did quite like mine though for both listening and music making when I had them - they seemed like they colored things a bit less then the Senns and had a slightly better soundstage, though that again might be my own perceptions. And, I mean, at some level it does come down to personal preference/ears/perception. I would like to say that I'm an Audiophile, but I know I'm really a pseudo-audiophile in a lot of ways - yes I can tell the difference between an 320 kbps MP3 and a WAV but just barely. Would listen to Scrypt as it sounds like you've got a great resource who is willing to very directly and honestly answer your questions.

[Guest we_kill_soapscum]

scrypt i think you are my friend in the LES named roman

 

also i dunno about MDRs being universally laughed at by engineers. they are by far the most omnipresent headphones i have seen all thru college, interning at studios, working in bcasting bahlah ablah banlhaah

[ascdi]

Cool reply, Scrypt. Respect! I'm going to try and reply back without screwing up the quote markup. Here we gowowowo ..

 

Ascdi:

 

I disagree with you on certain points and will explain why, but I don't want to be obnoxious about it. If I sound emphatic, it's only because I've been thinking about this for decades (as you might have done as well, for all I know).

 

..

 

I'd never recommend SR-80s for anything. I (personally) have to move to the RS series for Grados to make sense in a real mixing situation.

 

Fair point. For Grado, I've only ever used the 80s, and I use them in probably the worst possible way, with SR-60-style flat earpads (for comfort), driven by my iPod directly (no amp), and at my desk at work while I'm doing other things. The few times I've tried using them for making music I've been completely unable to do so successfully, FWIW (more explanation below).

 

On the other hand, it's a mistake to always equate music-making with mixing.

 

..

 

I've never heard anyone else describe Grados as "laid-back" -- especially in relation to Sennheisers. Most find Grados misleadingly forward, the exception being the GS-1000. Perhaps the SR-80s only seemed that way because they lacked the highs of the SR-125s (which, of course, some audiophiles consider "too bright").

 

1. As someone who makes mostly lo-fi-ish (at least by proper studio standards) techno, IDM, etc, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I spend much more time music-making than I do "mixing" anything. Frequently the "mix" of my tunes will just be everything up at unity gain with a few compressors around and that's basically it. As such, I tend to be fine with headphones that are "in the ballpark" (as I feel the 700DJ's are) if they have some other mixture of intangible features/characteristics that make me like them.

 

It is, as you allude to, about finding whatever allows you to be the most creative.

 

2. As far as Grados go, I've only ever used the SR-60s and 80s, and by "laid-back" I don't mean a matter of EQ .. it's more like everything that comes out of them seems overcompressed. I guess you could maybe say that I think they sound really "slow".

 

Re your comments about the ER-6i: I see two possible reasons for your findings.

 

(1) You used the original ER6 rather than the ER-6i, for which the tips were inadequate and bass was affected. However, the high range was definitely reference level. I sent mine back for the simple reason that boosted highs are what kill people's hearing in subways.

 

(2) Are you forgetting that the initial question concerned mobile use and noisy environments? Name one respected musician who mixes under those conditions!

 

(3) You're a basshead and don't even realize it. People often equate good sound with exaggerated bass -- even reasonably tasteful, slightly exaggerated bass. In fact, a flat frequency range is the best for making music no matter how unexciting it sounds.

 

1. I definitely had the ER-6i, bought from Amazon a few years ago.

2. I think we mostly agree with each other on this point. My suggestion is to not get so far off during your "field work" on a track that when it comes time to mix it on a "proper system" you don't have enough leeway to get back to proper EQ. That and:

3. Again, my experience with the ER-6i's was a COMPLETE lack of bass below, oh I dunno, 100hz? 80hz? I certainly enjoy bass as much as the next person, but I'm also able to step back and objectively ask myself if I am hearing anything at all in a certain frequency range. Perhaps it was my pair, or the way they fit in my ears, or something else, but this was far from a matter of taste—it was entire instruments missing from songs, for the entirety of songs. In the case of electronic bass lines with not a lot of high harmonics (again Benga, LFO, etc.) I found those elements of the songs were ENTIRELY missing.

 

I really didn't think the ER-6i's sounded good at all, even besides that. I dunno, all the good reviews I've read are puzzling to me.

 

The only reason I pointed out the ER-6i's new 50hz spec is that you can be sure if the package says 50hz then the actual audio experience will be considerably worse than even that. After all, I'm sure practically everyone here owns at least one pair of "20hz-20khz" headphones that deliver nothing remotely like that.

 

One reason I suspect this is because you advocate using Sony MDR-V700DJ, which a lot of DJs like but which are laughed at (no offense) by nearly every engineer I know. Those phones muddy things up and never deliver the flatness engineers need.

 

..

 

I've found Etymotics to be particularly good for checking basic tracks because I hate being fooled by grandeur. People who crave a huge soundstage will always hate Etys, as every pair I've ever tried has none. However, I personally think in terms of string arrangements, synths and sampled parts because that's my job; I particularly like counterpoint and use it at every excuse. Details are what matter to me personally and I can hear them using Etys. I daresay certain kinds of electronic music could be mixed on them -- lots of tracks by Benge, for example. (Stephen Betke would have a harder time!)

 

Besides which, the OP wants to spend under a hundred dollars. As far as I ken, Ken, the only true reference phones at that price point are all full-sized.

 

1. If anything, I'm closer to a DJ than I am to a studio engineer, so I have no problem using a tool that guys who record mandolin overdubs for Sunny Delight commercials (or whatever) "laugh at"

 

2. It would have been completely impossible to make decent electronic music using the ER-6i's (at least, the sound I was getting out of them). After a while I couldn't stand to use them for anything at all, regardless of genre. I dunno, maybe I got a bad pair.

[marf]

It sounds like you weren't getting a proper fit on those etymotics. I had the same problem. Sound like it was coming through a tin can? You have to jam them down in there to the point of pain. Ear molds are the only answer for me. The bass is fine, not boomy, but there when you get a good fit. They actually sound excellent when you get a good fit. Just physically painful