marf Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Seems like he's choosing topics with less humourous undertones lately. Always mind bending to see a comment from Rambo that isn't a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triachus Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I remember this one doc about hypnotisers, were he made this snappy remark to some hypnotiser's fanatic, who was claiming that hypnosis can make people millionairs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPZK6AUgQmY 1:40 to 2:40 (but watch the first minute as well for entertainment purposes) That's the only time I can remember Louis getting visually agitated, and making an unsubtle cutting remark to shut the other guy up. But I'm glad he doesn't do that all the time. It might make good satisfactory TV, but his subjects might not co-operate much then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementia Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 not exactly related but if anyone wants to see a 'serious' documentary from louis' 'more serious' older brother marcel, i still fondly remember this programme he made about the sorry state of post-soviet russia: Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I felt Theoroux was biting his tongue on some of the stupid shit some of these people said. Why isn't Israel called out on its criminal activity more in the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosmachine Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why isn't Israel called out on its criminal activity more in the media? ask Helen Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The bullshit discourse is that anti-zionism = anti-semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ezkerraldean Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The bullshit discourse is that anti-zionism = anti-semitism. classic thinkstop / thought-terminating cliché that gets thrown at you the moment you criticise israel infuriating just like "where's the evidence?!?!" shouted in your face when dealing with creationists, as in that Dawkins video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 anti zionism = denying specifically jews a right to self determination in a place of their origin, sounds pretty anti semitic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 fuck you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ezkerraldean Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 anti zionism = denying specifically jews a right to self determination in a place of their origin, sounds pretty anti semitic to me. in the very strictest sense then yes but zionism in common parlance implies that that right to self-determination in (what they consider to be) their homeland is at the expense of those also living there innit (most english people's roots are in north germany but that doesn't give english people the right to move there and set up a country innit) i like jews though don't worry. see look at my picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 anti zionism = denying specifically jews a right to self determination in a place of their origin, sounds pretty anti semitic to me. seems like a really ignorant thing to think unless you believe the Old Testament is a factual account and that the jews deserve to kick anyone out of israel so they can claim it. (even if you believed that well you'd still be really ignorant) Zionism is a fringe right wing ultra religious extremist viewpoint, to be anti it is basically just being a sensible critically thinking human being. I also can't get over how Eugune is the only representative of Israel on this board yet has some of the most lock step indoctrinated beliefs about it, I know a lot of people from Israel who would find Eugene's statement = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 then the problem is common parlance isn't it ? there are many types of zionism and the guys from the video are hardly mainstream. "expense" is actually a product of traditional muslim-arab antisemitism and overzealous national, counter-zionist movement. zionism wasn't about creating a conflict with the local arabs, it achieved its goals when the state of israel was proclaimed as i see it, the later developments are a result of arabs' reaction to that, and not just palestinian reaction but territorial aspiration of different arab states. the jewish migration to the area was only beneficial if you look at it objectively, created a lot of jobs for arabs, made barrens and swamps livable, which in turn increased the migration to the area. even today, despite the discrimination constantly fueled by the ongoing conflict, arabs in israel enjoy a much higher standard of living than in any arabic country. just to set things straight-er.. i personally don't support the whole settlement movement but i also don't believe that giving up those territories will mark the end of the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 then the problem is common parlance isn't it ? there are many types of zionism and the guys from the video are hardly mainstream. i'm talking about all types of zionism, not just the kind in this video.The premise that the religion of Judaism claims ownership to this territory as some kind of religious birth right is based on the Bible..... a fictional book. Like i said if you believe the bible is literally historical i could see how one could actually believe this seriously. If not, how can one believe such an absurd cultural myth so strongly? If there are flavors of zionism that aren't based in tribal blood lust religious extremist fervor please by all means introduce them to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ezkerraldean Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i'm talking about all types of zionism, not just the kind in this video.The premise that the religion of Judaism claims ownership to this territory as some kind of religious birth right is based on the Bible..... a fictional book. Like i said if you believe the bible is literally historical i could see how one could actually believe this seriously. If not, how can one believe such an absurd cultural myth so strongly? they obviously have some roots in the area, it's inevitable from genetics and the preference of jews to have wee kiddies with their own jewfolk. and the bible isn't entirely bollocks. the stories in it are obviously partly based on history - obviously there were jewish states in the area in the past. but yeah, it's ridiculous to base a nationalistic movement on stuff like that. i also don't get why the settlers have to live in palestine, it's so deliberately antagonistic. why not irrigate the negev desert and build big cities there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i'm talking about all types of zionism, not just the kind in this video.The premise that the religion of Judaism claims ownership to this territory as some kind of religious birth right is based on the Bible..... a fictional book. Like i said if you believe the bible is literally historical i could see how one could actually believe this seriously. If not, how can one believe such an absurd cultural myth so strongly? they obviously have some roots in the area, it's inevitable from genetics and the preference of jews to have wee kiddies with their own jewfolk. and the bible isn't entirely bollocks. the stories in it are obviously partly based on history - obviously there were jewish states in the area in the past. but yeah, it's ridiculous to base a nationalistic movement on stuff like that. i also don't get why the settlers have to live in palestine, it's so deliberately antagonistic. why not irrigate the negev desert and build big cities there? roots in the area is fine, im not contesting ethnic and genetic roots, but what does that have to do with claiming the right to the actual land? (because God told them it was theirs? I mean this is literally the only reason that i know of, if you know another one please tell me) Also i would argue that the actual genetic differences between israelis and palestinians are very minor (unless you count european settlers post 40s). what stuff in the Bible, namely the old testament do you find based in historical events? The only thing that comes to mind is some of the data regarding the rulers/kingdoms of the area and the actual landmarks and names of cities, like King David, Herod and Solomon. Beyond that the bible kind of falls flat on having any historical factual relevance whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 bible has nothing to do with most streams of zionisms, it's mostly a secular movement, there's a large group of orthodox anti-zionist jews in israel for example. there nothing mythical about the fact the jews originated from this area and there's enough historical and archeological data to confirm it. no one in the jewish leadership claimed ownership of the land either, just the idea that this is the most logical place to form a jewish state, the lands were being gradually bought out, later the un came up with a (shitty) partition plan and then subsequent wars shaped the borders of israel. it's a huge mistake to call bible purely fictional, there's a lot of factual data to infer from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 it's a huge mistake to call bible purely fictional, there's a lot of factual data to infer from it i didn't say it was purely fictional, obviously there are many references to real places, people and events however that's where the factualness ends. I will agree though that its a common misperception even among non religious westerners that many events in the old testament bible actually happened. I've had arguments with atheists where they were convinced Moses was a real person, there is absolutely no proof or science to back up that he existed at all. Please point me in the direction of where i can read more about secular zionism, the only kinds i've seen examples of are driven by a santa claus like belief that God told them they were the chosen people and the land belonged to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 google theodor herzl, the completely secular daddy of zionism then, labour zionism and revisionist zionism, 2 of the most important streams of zionism, both secular, the first has a socialist leaning the other one is nationalistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 kebabs are better than matzah balls. However those wee potato pancakes are all right, so I'm undecided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixxx Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 anti zionism = denying specifically jews a right to self determination in a place of their origin, sounds pretty anti semitic to me. seems like a really ignorant thing to think unless you believe the Old Testament is a factual account and that the jews deserve to kick anyone out of israel so they can claim it. (even if you believed that well you'd still be really ignorant) Zionism is a fringe right wing ultra religious extremist viewpoint, to be anti it is basically just being a sensible critically thinking human being. I also can't get over how Eugune is the only representative of Israel on this board yet has some of the most lock step indoctrinated beliefs about it, I know a lot of people from Israel who would find Eugene's statement = Totally agree with you, many jews are against Israel, unfortunately there are many people stupid enough to think that all jews want Israel therefore all jews are 'evil'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixxx Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Also, there are areas where the Jewish community are more at peace with their Arab neighbours, the problem that can stem from a programme like this is to show that ALL of Israel is like that, but it certainly isn't, nor are all Muslims against the Jews. The issue here is that these Zionist still have a mindset of persecution. In order to move forward to a peaceful future, the mindset has to change which is difficult now that there are Russians moving other there which they themselves have just come out of hard times, this in my opinion has put the peace process back by perhaps two or three generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 to my knowledge Israel is one of many, many territories originally considered for a jewish homeland...there were also territories (correct me if im wrong) in Belarus, Poland, and even a suggestion for an israeli home state in the Americas. this is way early on in Zionism though...im just pointing out as I think Herzl writings do that it wasnt initially all ISRAEL ISRAEL WE MUST RESETTLE THE HOLY LAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berk Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 i love louis theroux but these recent docs seem to be lacking something. i dont know, this one and the one he did before it were a bit less incisive than some of his other stuff it seems like he's gone in a more 'serious' journalist direction over the past year or so. Even though the subtle sarcasm and clever prodding is still there, it's much more restrained than say his episode 'The Most Hated Family in America' not exactly related but if anyone wants to see a 'serious' documentary from louis' 'more serious' older brother marcel, i still fondly remember this programme he made about the sorry state of post-soviet russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1OyIJtjdpo Good post, always liked docs about Russia. There's also a good Dutch one, "Van Moskou tot Moermansk". Also, can't believe that woman @ 4:33 is only 37, she looks 50.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 glad you thought it was a good post. but it wasn't as good as my post about the parrot CD. go and look at that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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