People's right to strike

[Guest kokeboka]

I'm always puzzled when I hear someone arguing against workers' right to strike. There's a general strike scheduled for Thursday, and most citywide public transportation is expected to be inoperative during that day. Today, I overheard someone arguing that a strike was just people being lazy and wanting a day off work, that if they really wanted to change something they would mount a protest and not just strike. The strike would be an inconvenience to her, since she couldn't get around town that day. I didn't want to start a debate with that particular person because she's that kind that just keeps getting louder and louder in an argument.

 

Anyway, the right to strike is stated in the constitution. To strike is to protest, IMO (even though I agree a lot of people just stay at home and defeat the purpose of it). I'd always thought the only people who openly opposed the right to strike were a fringe in the upper classes. I don't understand how a greater portion of the population fails to realise the importance of a worker's right to strike.

[Guest Gary C]

Agreed. In Britain we had a few weeks of planned public-service strikes and protests a few months ago. A lot of the reaction I experienced was completely over-the-top and unnecessarily angry.

[joshuatxuk]

Yeah it can get very irrational and nasty when it comes to discussing unions and striking in general here in the States. One of those things that varies greatly state to state and city to city. Texas for example is a "right to work" state so there are no Unions, save for a few specific industry ones.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if there are no extensive government mandated and standardized healthcare and pension benefits, workers have every right to strike. That said, unions can become corrupt and overbearing on local economies, but so can corporations and government offices. I chatted recently with a college student in Philadelphia and bus single-day one-way bus fares are $4-10. Round trip is up to $20. It's all because the bus unions and city offices have under the table deals that keep falling apart, so in the meantime the workers are on strike and contractors have been hired. Working class bus riders are paying. But to clarify, that isn't an argument against striking, it's more of an example that the entities that are truly to blame aren't the workers themselves. I'm probably more "free market" oriented than many here, but lately I've found the anti-union rhetoric of the GOP a huge turn-off. Our governor brags about the job growth in my state, but as a result of it's rapid pace and lack of regulation, and we are now dead last when it comes to health coverage insurance coverage.

[keltoi]

[youtubehd]NuuDnqSPnhA[/youtubehd]

[BobDobalina]

As far as I'm concerned, if there are no extensive government mandated and standardized healthcare and pension benefits, workers have every right to strike. That said, unions can become corrupt and overbearing on local economies, but so can corporations and government offices. I chatted recently with a college student in Philadelphia and bus single-day one-way bus fares are $4-10. Round trip is up to $20. It's all because the bus unions and city offices have under the table deals that keep falling apart, so in the meantime the workers are on strike and contractors have been hired. Working class bus riders are paying. But to clarify, that isn't an argument against striking, it's more of an example that the entities that are truly to blame aren't the workers themselves. I'm probably more "free market" oriented than many here, but lately I've found the anti-union rhetoric of the GOP a huge turn-off. Our governor brags about the job growth in my state, but as a result of it's rapid pace and lack of regulation, and we are now dead last when it comes to health coverage insurance coverage.

 

Good points, the stuff you mentioned that I bolded pretty much characterizes the state of affairs here in Rhode Island: bloat, entitlement, corruption, and detachment from reality are rampant in both government and the unions, and it's your ordinary citizens (working class and poor) who are getting squeezed. We've already had one city go bankrupt and another three (including capital city Providence) on the precipice of the same fate. In one of these cities is so broke that they don't know how they'll operate the public schools beyond April of this year, possibly just closing them. It's sad, your and our elected leaders have failed repeatedly and we continue to keep them around.

[Guest kokeboka]

It's sad, your and our elected leaders have failed repeatedly and we continue to keep them around.

 

A section of the syndicates here are connotated with the Communist Party, and that doesn't always help them politically. People here are becoming conformed with the idea that politicians are usually corrupt, uncaring and/or stupid. So even though the situation is dire and a strike is their only option, I doubt they truly believe it will make a difference. A huge gap between rich and poor is deepening and I suspect one day people's disappointment in politicians will make them do something more dramatic than another strike.

[soundwave]

management will always push and if you dont stand up for yourself in some way you will just get shat on

 

the media's shitty coverge of the last big services strikes last November goes to show the corporate nature of who runs them and anyone agreeing with them needs to open their eyes a bit more and see this country (uk) is being bled dry by those who couldnt give two fucks about the people in it

 

has anyone noticed the new law Obama has recently sneaked in about protesting in 'unauthorised' areas which gives the police rights to do whtever they want to get rid of you in these government defined 'areas'?

 

 

[SR4]

at the turn of the Twentieth Century, unionism and populist movements in alliance with each other were the most significant threat to the economic establishment that ushered in the Industrial Revolution. Amazing and astounding growth in the Western World, but its a plain fact to see that this progress was made on the backs of underpaid and under-represented workers.

 

The populist and progressive parties were in fact so powerful at the turn of the century, that a careful and plodding study was created by certain members of the old Republican guard and Democratic businessmen to figure out how to counter their popularity. Threats to stability must be dealt with at all costs. Well, they first attempted direct force, but they were met with direct force and gained the ire and eyes of the ever increasingly critical American middle class. Thus, they turned to a propaganda model. Workers' representation equals communism and anarchism. No two ways about it. This took a long time to take hold, arguably because there were no other economic or other national distractions to subvert the media spotlight and the sheer local influence of unions/populists on their populations.

 

World War One started to change all that...but it still wasn't an immediate transition. They had already attempted a propaganda coup to distract with the Spanish-American War (note that Hearst is seen as one of the GOAT newsmen, NOT because of what he reported, but how he reported it). World War One made it far easier, as the violence could be left to outer powers. Wilson made a ton of progressive promises on his campaign platform and gradually ignored them one by one in office. World War One cemented this ignorance of the urban and rural protests. by focusing on the outer enemies. The new Soviet Union and the Comintern (The "Red Scare") toppled one of the oldest empires in Europe. Perfect comparison to the "danger of worker's parties" to the industrialized Western world.

 

Yet after World War One, there was a nonstop stream of protest and lobbying within the US government to prevent further involvement in foreign wars. Ludlow Amendment, opposition to the Lend-Lease Acts, Commission on War Lobbies, etc. etc. etc. These are never talked about today in schools, primarily because these movements were pushed by the leftovers of the rural populists and the urban unionists, reintegrated into the second wave of the Progressive Party under LaFollette's lead.

 

Im sorta rambling on and on, but basically the reason the majority of the population are opposed to strikes is because of one of the most skillfully orchestrated agitprop media coups in modern history. Striking is communist, socialist, anarchist. Striking interrupts the blessings of industrial progress to satiate a "small few" in the unions. Unions are incredibly corrupt, and steal from their own workers (there is some truth to this, admittedly, but nowhere near the scale its reported). And on and on and on.

[Guest ruiagnelo]

Today, I overheard someone arguing that a strike was just people being lazy and wanting a day off work, that if they really wanted to change something they would mount a protest and not just strike.

 

this pretty much summarizes our nation's (with a capital N, as i am simply generalizing) way of thinking: if nothing is done, they complain; if what is done is wrong, they complain that is wrong; if they are asked for solutions... they can't say a word, because they are all a bunch of useless illiterates wasting valuable money and space on earth

[soundwave]

I thought a strike was a protest?

 

my dad was a part of the minors strike in the 80's which turned more into a struggle for political agenda rather than the welfare of the coal minors and it was rough times made worse. I'm currently a part of a services union which is struggling with the government fucking over our pensions which is something we didn't sign up for.

 

ironically my new girlfriends dad has beaten some very large unions and his business model (basically bribing union officials) has worked so well in areas of the US that they don't have unions at all!

 

cant wait to meet him

[YO303]

Bring back Thatcher!

[SR4]

I thought a strike was a protest?

 

my dad was a part of the minors strike in the 80's which turned more into a struggle for political agenda rather than the welfare of the coal minors and it was rough times made worse. I'm currently a part of a services union which is struggling with the government fucking over our pensions which is something we didn't sign up for.

 

ironically my new girlfriends dad has beaten some very large unions and his business model (basically bribing union officials) has worked so well in areas of the US that they don't have unions at all!

 

cant wait to meet him

 

thats the whole point though. once you cement the association of unions with strikes, it only logically follows via the same use of language in media coverage that anyone striking=unionists/communists/anarchists.

[Guest kokeboka]

anyone striking=unionists/communists/anarchists.

 

...add "lazy bums". People stand outside a factory gate shouting for 12 hours, and the only 10 second footage that makes it to the evening news is of when they're having lunch on the street, with their union caps on. It's already a conservative electorate, being fed biased news reporting so everyone feels there's no other sane option but lose pension money and take pay cuts (if you're lucky enough to have a job).

[essines]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

[Hoodie]

maybe instead of focusing on taking away workers' right to strike, politicians should focus on improving the workplace so that no one will want to strike.

 

but, oh, that requires logic. LOL NVM

[chassis]

[youtubehd]NuuDnqSPnhA[/youtubehd]

 

Clarkson is funny as fuck, but he's a complete moron.

[SR4]

theres no way hes being serious. that has to be a joke or sarcasm or something.

 

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

 

[chenGOD]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

[Hugh Mughnus]

maybe instead of focusing on taking away workers' right to strike, politicians should focus on improving the workplace so that no one will want to strike.

 

but, oh, that requires logic. LOL NVM

 

Half the time striking is not about the quality of the work environment. When a union is too strong, they can have unreasonable demands in terms of the work environment, job setup etc.

 

Using Canada Post as an example, there were a number of improvements that management was trying to make for the operations which included automating certain parts of the business that were resulting in a large number of lost time injuries, not to mention in an increasingly competitive market (IE there are private couriers + a decreasing amount of paper-post (everyone uses email)) public services like Canada Post need to cut cost to survive. The decrease in revenue is not nearly proportional to the decrease in staffing or overhead due to pressure from the union. The other option is that they go bankrupt and the tax payers bail them out. (ala Air Canada, American Airlines, etc etc).

 

If you want more information on how detrimental unions can be, look up the history of Ireland and Scotlands unions. What happens eventually is that the unions that are too powerful raise the wage ceiling and workers get paid much more than they are worth, impacting the companies bottom line and more importantly, the economy overall. Additionally, productivity decreases.

 

Oh right understanding this takes logic.

[Hugh Mughnus]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

 

How come when you edit your posts it doesn't have an "edited" warning like everyone else?

 

Witchcraft!!!!

[essines]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

Yeah, it might just be BC. Everyone is fed up with the teachers striking every, like, 2 years. in my last 4 years of schooling they had two strikes. i missed out on basketball season and it drug the year out longer. i hated school so i didn't care but it really does affect the kids. I wish teachers made more but I also wish they really understood what these strikes mean to children in school. They profess that they do but since they are not experiencing it i can only take that statement at face value. But I do support teachers 110%. Air Canada was just recently mandated back to work. Apparently the new method of protest is pilots calling in sick. It's annoying as all fuck but i support them. I'm part of a union. A similar one to the one in Ontario that got locked out of work and Cat subsequently closed their factory after trying to cut wages and benefits by 50% after registering a massive multibillion profit year. Fuck that.

[YO303]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

 

How come when you edit your posts it doesn't have an "edited" warning like everyone else?

 

Witchcraft!!!!

 

[Hugh Mughnus]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

Yeah, it might just be BC. Everyone is fed up with the teachers striking every, like, 2 years. in my last 4 years of schooling they had two strikes. i missed out on basketball season and it drug the year out longer. i hated school so i didn't care but it really does affect the kids. I wish teachers made more but I also wish they really understood what these strikes mean to children in school. They profess that they do but since they are not experiencing it i can only take that statement at face value. But I do support teachers 110%. Air Canada was just recently mandated back to work. Apparently the new method of protest is pilots calling in sick. It's annoying as all fuck but i support them. I'm part of a union. A similar one to the one in Ontario that got locked out of work and Cat subsequently closed their factory after trying to cut wages and benefits by 50% after registering a massive multibillion profit year. Fuck that.

 

There are some situations where striking is fair. There are some situations where it is not fair. Like anything, it is subjective. Perhaps collective bargaining should be seen by a tribunal with no vested interest in the process to ensure it is fair. For example, some sort of Canadian court of union bargaining.

 

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

 

How come when you edit your posts it doesn't have an "edited" warning like everyone else?

 

Witchcraft!!!!

 

 

I left in burger king. Everything was YO303.

[chenGOD]

they are trying to take away the right to strike in canada.

I have no problem mandating back-to-work laws for sectors of the public infrastructure, after a certain period of strikes.

For private industry though, fuck yes they should absolutely be allowed to strike.

 

Also Smetty come on man - you really expect anyone to believe that the US got to where it was through unfair practices? Everyone knows the US was fully formed as a paradise, where everyone is rich all the time, and there was never abuse of the "free market" by robber barons I'm sorry I mean "industrialists".

 

 

How come when you edit your posts it doesn't have an "edited" warning like everyone else?

 

Witchcraft!!!!

 

I didn't edit anything in that post.

 

Strikes are a necessary part of the private sector.

[SR4]

i like the tribunal idea...but again, what criterion determines placement on this tribunal?

 

Systems and institutions of power in the United States at least have severely damaged unionism, maybe even beyond repair. I agree with Stephen that yes, there are very corrupt union practices and demands that can inequitably hurt the rest of the working class and average taxpayer. Does that equivocate with all unions as corrupt and damaging? If you are a CEO or a higher up, then the answer is undoubtedly yes. The rise of the wage ceiling can certainly be detrimental, but that's only half the picture. What about inflation with regards to living costs? Who makes up the difference there?

 

A significant argument used by anti-union groups is that living wages rose exponentially over the course of the Industrial Revolution. What they also fail to address within that same argument are the inflationary costs that coincide with heavy industrial economic expansion. Roads and infrastructure must be paid for by some body in order to allow these burgeoning dynasties of steel and oil to ship their commodities out to the purchasing public. Part of the answer for this was monopolizing the railroads into privatized cartels, and the implementation of a vertical integration system. This almost directly corresponds with the rise of unionist and organized reactions against these industries; they were artificially jacking up the worth of their commodity via railroad usage fees and other means of financial dishonesty.

 

Ill be damned if I throw away my right to demand a living for my work, and I certainly won't belittle those who are doing just that.

 

The right to strike should be looked upon with the same feelings the right to free speech is. Because in the end, its the same damn thing.

 

 

Also, just to per-emptively defend myself against what I sorta see coming, no, I'm not a Marxist. I don't think everyone was better off in the ages of feudalism.