Entorwellian Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 ent - dunno how j dilla is still bringing it back considering he's been gone for a while now. oop, made myself feel bad nah more just as a resurgene out of nowhere. Donuts was amazing and it was done entirely on an SP303. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 In the 80s almost everyone believed in the future of digital synths and the obsoleteness of analog synths. That's why equipment that only Genesis or a university could afford in the 70s was practically dumped in the 80s. And then someone with a different approach (ie Techno and House producers) got access to this equipment and showed everyone a new potential for them, besides the prog rock/academic use. The steep rising curve in those graphs around 1989 correlate perfectly with the summer of love and the popularity of Acid House a year or two earlier. Can anyone imagine some kind of technology to come along that will make everyone want throw away all their current gear (ie computers, modulars, digital synths, etc) in favour of it? Or can you imagine a new way to use some really undesireable gear, that makes everyone jump on the bandwagon and start using/buying said gear? In both cases I think you're on a safer way to filthy richness than by investing in a "future classic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 maybe rack samplers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chesney Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Not sure any new synth will take on those status'. Less popular brands of analogue synths will start to get more sought after for a while, while the analogue boom is still on, I think. The stuff which in the future, get "classic" stamped on them maybe would be things that have had new ways of use unlocked, maybe with newer tech that looks back and forward to create new possibilities with old gear. And, obviously, some big time artist has to name drop them, which is the main reason gear gets price driven. Things like the Sidstation, FS1r, maybe things like the D50 and those type of racks. Things with amazing sounds and impenetrable (not quickly anyway) interfaces being used in secret ways by someone with influence only to leak info to masses in interview etc. Good you mentioned the timbre wolf, it's so bad that someone HAS to make an odd classic track from it which will get twats wanting to re create the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perunamuusi Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 quasimidi 309 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flacid Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Future classic synths are normally dependant on popular musicians using them in an interesting way. So it really depends on what people make with these modern synths. If someone in 2017 creates something like SAW1 with a volca setup you can imagine people rushing out to buy them to get that sound. They'll then be seen as the classics of it's time purely because someone created something brilliant with it. Anyway. I have a weird feeling that the minibrute will be remembered well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think the new Yamaha Reface keyboards will become popular after the initial popularity dies down (or at least the full-sized ones based on them), because they are simple, yet quite feature-full, BUT, they aren't super hardcore like dedicated workstation keyboards. And I mean popular amongst keyboard players, not really electronic musicians. I think what will SOON become very popular again (BUY THEM NOW AND STOCK UP!) is all the dedicated drum machines of the late 90's and early 00's (like Roland MC-505/303, Yamaha RM1x, Quasimidi Rave-O-Lution, Korg Electribe series, etc.). After Elektron's genius Machinedrum and the like, I've been seeing more and more videos of people using hardware drum machines, and it seems the DAW generation are realizing just how good it feels to sit at one of those machines and produce without a computer. I used to looove my MC-505, and after awhile, the commands and everything get hardwired into muscle memory, so you're flying through that shit like Rubik's Cube, and it feels amazing. DAWs can never offer that level of feel-good, because it's just mouse clicking. Also, I can't believe a drum machine released in 1996 is nearly 20 years old. That's pretty vintage-esque, at this point. It's like using a 1976 keyboard in 1996. Fuck, dude, what the fuck. Fucking kids jacking off on my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 regarding the notion that hardware could ever be rendered obsolete by software: Ever wonder why do Emu SP-1200's cost as much as an 808? It's certainly not because of specs or convenience: it has 10 seconds of sampling time and requires floppy disks. However, the thing simply has a magic sound and workflow. (For instance, some of the output channels on the SP-1200 have different filters, so users will strategically assign kicks, snares, hats and basses to different channels as a mixing technique.) If ever there was proof against the claim that gear should be powerful and convenient, it's the SP-1200. I didn't say it'd be rendered obsolete by software, I just suggested that certain pieces of gear won't be fetishised as much, since there won't be a story of "I was just starting out without much money so I went to a second hand store and picked up an ms20 for $100" from the next Aphex Twin, instead it'll be like "I wanted to make electronic music so I pirated a copy of Ableton" or "I didn't have much money so I'm glad there was a bunch of freeware to get me started". Late 80s/early 90s electronic musicians were taking advantage of the cheapest way possible to make electronic music, and as a result those pieces of hardware became fetishised (much in the same way that grunge/indie bands took advantage of discarded Jazzmasters/Jaguars and now they're worth more than Strats). I'm not even sure if it's worth trying to explain my point, since I don't seem to be getting it across very well! but we're talking about the sorts of people who buy 303's and Jupiter-8's not noobs with $200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinski Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 considering how little respect volca series got, i can't really imagine it being a 'classic'. unless you mean classic like a early boss dr series, that it's cheap and it kinda sorta resambles it's roland counterparts. sadly it's gor nothing on sh101 or tb303. mainly because it brings nothing to the table, it's just a cheap version of better synths (especially bass). if there's ever going to be a wave of second analogue nostalgia i think the little guys will get their part. like doepfer (dark energy), dreadbox (erebus) or mfb (kraftzwerg, tanzbar). virus and bloefeld have a bit of a cult following, so maybe that's the new classics. and i think microkorg already is kinda a classic synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Maybe something like the mid/late 90s 'workstation' type keyboards with their trance super-saws and super-digital everything else. Something like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Noobs with $200. Ahahaha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Actually i don't agree with software not being muscle memory like hardware im fucking fast as with cubase....bang bang bang! classic drum machine of the day: zoom 234 classic sampler: zoom sampletrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Sensi Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 maybe rack samplers? We're already there when it comes to samplers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 BOSS SP series samplers. (sp-202, sp-303, sp-404, etc...). Almost after 15 years it is still one of my favourite pieces of hardware and it was considered a budget device when it came out. To me it's the ultimate texture creator and fx box that you can get under $200, you can use it as an outboard as a rough but tough compressor, it has a bunch of sample banks that can load up to an hour's worth of data on the C and D banks and 70 seconds on the A and B banks, and the sequencer is functional enough to do beatmatching and drum pad recording with no problems. You can make an entire album with nothing except for it... Fatboy Slim popularized it but J Dilla and Madlib have been bringing it back. This was part of my original list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Actually i don't agree with software not being muscle memory like hardware im fucking fast as with cubase....bang bang bang! Oh, yeah- well there's still a lot of muscle memory involved, but it's mostly mouse clicking and wrist movement, and if you're lucky, keyboard shortcuts. For me anyway, it's just not as fun as hardware. Cuz hardware has clicks that go along with button presses, that create memorable patterns. And you're using multiple fingers on both hands, which is really engaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Guess it just depends who u are...what you're used to...cubase macros definitely make things fast... I had a machinedrum and a monomachine (classics!) and they sat there gathering dust. Software just floats my boat. Still regret selling them! Others owned: MPC 1000, 2500, 500 - so much fun...such vibe. Dave Smith Mono Evolver Desktop - Easy to use....quality for not much cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entorwellian Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 BOSS SP series samplers. (sp-202, sp-303, sp-404, etc...). Almost after 15 years it is still one of my favourite pieces of hardware and it was considered a budget device when it came out. To me it's the ultimate texture creator and fx box that you can get under $200, you can use it as an outboard as a rough but tough compressor, it has a bunch of sample banks that can load up to an hour's worth of data on the C and D banks and 70 seconds on the A and B banks, and the sequencer is functional enough to do beatmatching and drum pad recording with no problems. You can make an entire album with nothing except for it... Fatboy Slim popularized it but J Dilla and Madlib have been bringing it back. This was part of my original list It's just that good that it has to be said again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 BOSS SP series samplers. (sp-202, sp-303, sp-404, etc...). Almost after 15 years it is still one of my favourite pieces of hardware and it was considered a budget device when it came out. To me it's the ultimate texture creator and fx box that you can get under $200, you can use it as an outboard as a rough but tough compressor, it has a bunch of sample banks that can load up to an hour's worth of data on the C and D banks and 70 seconds on the A and B banks, and the sequencer is functional enough to do beatmatching and drum pad recording with no problems. You can make an entire album with nothing except for it... Fatboy Slim popularized it but J Dilla and Madlib have been bringing it back. This was part of my original list It's just that good that it has to be said again. no i mean that was part of my original list before i shortened it i also had the OP-1 and a couple other things (p.s. SP-303 for president) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 i'm skeptical that the sound quality is really all that much different and the depth that some plugins are just wildly complex soundmakers. your skepticism is understandable. As someone who was almost OCD about discovering all the craziest softsynths and thought FM7 and Absynth were better sounding than most hardware synths it took me many years to come to the conclusion i just laid out. There are great emulations of Yamaha fm synths in soft synth form, but I would argue they sound just as 'far away' from their hardware counterparts as Aturia's virtual analogs do from their counterparts. but my main point was that the 80s and early 90s had an amazing run of fairly affordable rack synthesizers, mostly digital ones and guaranteed some of these which right now might go for $200-$500 will go up to at least $1000 price range in less than 2 years. The FS1R has already increased significantly in value in just the last 4-5 years and i imagine this is only the start of a future inflated price increase of certain digital synths. I think the FS1r specifically is a great example of a hardware synth that hasn't been bettered by any softsynth, there is just no comparison feature wise or sound quality wise. To counter my own argument, an FS1R is running off of it's own software, proprietary software developed by Yamaha, and now it can probably be fully emulated/ran off a consumer level PC. IF someone wanted to reverse engineer the entire architecture they probably could, but i dont think thats going to happen soon. you aren't going to see many advocates for the premise of this thread because a lot of composers or collectors who use stuff like the Yamaha VL1 consider them a 'secret weapon' and are unwilling to share the knowledge. They don't want prices of Vl1 to go up, and not only that they want to be able to snatch one up even for an inflated price if it pops up on ebay and if too many people hear about what an amazing piece of technology it is they might not have that opportunity. Right now i'm just reading up on the Esoniq Fizmo, which my friend just informed me about and it seems to be another example of a very rare one of a kind digital synth that certain sound designer composers swear by (but if you search ebay completed auctions you wont find a single one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 i'm skeptical that the sound quality is really all that much different and the depth that some plugins are just wildly complex soundmakers. your skepticism is understandable. As someone who was almost OCD about discovering all the craziest softsynths and thought FM7 and Absynth were better sounding than most hardware synths it took me many years to come to the conclusion i just laid out. There are great emulations of Yamaha fm synths in soft synth form, but I would argue they sound just as 'far away' from their hardware counterparts as Aturia's virtual analogs do from their counterparts. but my main point was that the 80s and early 90s had an amazing run of fairly affordable rack synthesizers, mostly digital ones and guaranteed some of these which right now might go for $200-$500 will go up to at least $1000 price range in less than 2 years. The FS1R has already increased significantly in value in just the last 4-5 years and i imagine this is only the start of a future inflated price increase of certain digital synths. I think the FS1r specifically is a great example of a hardware synth that hasn't been bettered by any softsynth, there is just no comparison feature wise or sound quality wise. To counter my own argument, an FS1R is running off of it's own software, proprietary software developed by Yamaha, and now it can probably be fully emulated/ran off a consumer level PC. IF someone wanted to reverse engineer the entire architecture they probably could, but i dont think thats going to happen soon. you aren't going to see many advocates for the premise of this thread because a lot of composers or collectors who use stuff like the Yamaha VL1 consider them a 'secret weapon' and are unwilling to share the knowledge. They don't want prices of Vl1 to go up, and not only that they want to be able to snatch one up even for an inflated price if it pops up on ebay and if too many people hear about what an amazing piece of technology it is they might not have that opportunity. Right now i'm just reading up on the Esoniq Fizmo, which my friend just informed me about and it seems to be another example of a very rare one of a kind digital synth that certain sound designer composers swear by (but if you search ebay completed auctions you wont find a single one) JE damn you for turning me on to physical modeling now i'm obsessed with xoxos' vst's you tried any of them? some of them are goofy and dumb but many of them are super-deep and sound amazing and you're right, they offer crazy possibilities that other synthesis methods can't even begin to approximate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 p.s. what sorts of hardware PM synths are out there? I'm checking out Fizmo right now Ensoniq rules I'm convinced all their stuff will be crazy expensive in 10 years i mean c'mon, gritty SP1200-sounding sampling keyboards with analog filters... who the fuck makes anything like that anymore? added to the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 (oops, apparently on the Mirage has an analog filter...still, though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 i'm skeptical that the sound quality is really all that much different and the depth that some plugins are just wildly complex soundmakers. your skepticism is understandable. As someone who was almost OCD about discovering all the craziest softsynths and thought FM7 and Absynth were better sounding than most hardware synths it took me many years to come to the conclusion i just laid out. There are great emulations of Yamaha fm synths in soft synth form, but I would argue they sound just as 'far away' from their hardware counterparts as Aturia's virtual analogs do from their counterparts. I noticed that hardware does seem to sound better, even if it's shit hardware-- somehow, more rich and "present and immediate" sounding. I was always like WTF about this, but I concluded (pulled out my ass, that is) that it has something to do with the D/A converters or related stuffs in hardware. Or internal summing or whatever. Cuz software is basically at the point of idealistic circuit emulation, which takes away all sorts of imperfections of hardware that is using some $5 chip or a soldered up braid of pubic hair somewhere in the chain. Or hardware seems louder even if it's not, and I dunno what that's about. However, I do think that the mojo of hardware can be had by merely outputting DAW audio into some external hardware, then bringing it back in. Even if it's something that seemingly does nothing- like a non-true thru of a mixer- it does something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Oh and also.. two years ago Mirage's we're going for $100-ish Now they go for $400-ish This disconfirms the 'no future classics because of software' hypothesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haste Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Aw hell......... I just gave in to the future-hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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