Braintree Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong. I think it's wrong because it's sadistic. Keep it alive while cooking it? What the fuck? That has nothing to do with survival. And it may be their culture, but that's just as bad as Americans driving Hummers, and refusing to give them up for more efficient foreign cars because it's their "way of life." Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile. Eh? It's not the eating of a live thing that's bothersome. It's the catching and frying while it's still alive. You're basically just torturing it before it's eaten, rather than just eating the damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i just want to know what all you octopus-lovers would do if an octopus was tentacle-fucking your girl? Shit happens all the time in asia; it's payback. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cardan Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 sickening, disgusting, and they're fucking eating parts off it as it sits on their plate in deathshock from having half it's body literally fried what's wrong with these fucking people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 CARDAAAAAAAAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plisb Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The ability to transmit cultural traits and abstract ideas from generation to generation. Ok so this could be done passively or actively - I can choose to seek up interesting stuff and learn about it, or (as for most cultural influence) I just become what I live because I really can't do much about it. I believe what makes us humans, is the active choices we make based upon what's before us. What we see in front of us is another story as there's not only one way to percieve reality - how our views are rooted in reality obviously differs. Religion for example. At the end of the day, it appears the fish in this video is suffering (though it could be spastic post-mortem muscular activity - as often seen when cooking very fresh fish in frying pans) and people having a total loss of empathy for it, and actively hurts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plisb Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 quite happy about seeing cardan post dunno why but I guess I gotta watch(find) some of those old videos now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong. I think it's wrong because it's sadistic. Keep it alive while cooking it? What the fuck? That has nothing to do with survival. And it may be their culture, but that's just as bad as Americans driving Hummers, and refusing to give them up for more efficient foreign cars because it's their "way of life." Dude your avatar is sick! What's wrong with you? What kind of person would want to look at a picture like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneToThirtySix Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 That fish is undercooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Beyond sushi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JW Modestburns Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong. I think it's wrong because it's sadistic. Keep it alive while cooking it? What the fuck? That has nothing to do with survival. And it may be their culture, but that's just as bad as Americans driving Hummers, and refusing to give them up for more efficient foreign cars because it's their "way of life." Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile. Eh? It's not the eating of a live thing that's bothersome. It's the catching and frying while it's still alive. You're basically just torturing it before it's eaten, rather than just eating the damn thing. well said. I also think that any response claiming that people objecting to this video are simply mindless ethnocentrics or that we just hold a view comparable to brutal British colonizers in the past is simply ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eichel Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 lol. I'm not asian. I merely lived in South Korea for a long ass time. So I've had extensive experience with Korean and Canadian culture. Yes animals are viewed differently over there. Hey guess what, they eat the whole fish. What's worse, catching a fish, skinning it, gutting it, cutting off the head and tail and then eating it, or eating the whole fish? I don't know that the fish is suffering. And I have no moral imperative to stop it, why would I want to deny people their meal? And yeah it's entertaining when you see something like that for the first time, it's novel. I'm not trying to shock you, I'm trying to show you that I have experience with those kinds of situations and might have a bit more perspective than you. Would I laugh in that situation? Probably not, but I would be fascinated. If you want to see videos of chickens in slaughter-house facilities being laughed at, there are lots online. I don't approve of female circumcision (nor forced male circumcision, those poor jews). For me the line is quite simple: when a human subject matures, it will have the ability to consent or dissent rationally. This fish never will. I do believe in human exceptionalism, of course there need to be limits to ensure the sustainability of practices. Shark-fin soup I find to be quite wasteful, because it is reducing a resource. troon: you're all about the bible right? Why don't you go check out Genesis 1:26-28? George: careful you don't fall into the classic mode of british colonizer so easily - "they don't know any better, we have to train them". And thank you, I do know quite well. How about: What makes us human? The ability to transmit cultural traits and abstract ideas from generation to generation. a final note to troon: we did not get into this situation through nation-states doing whatever they want, we got to where we are right now because of the ideas that Western Europe had that "Our way is the correct way and by god we're going to train those noble savages". no big difference for me if you eat the whole fish or cut off head and tail. but afaik most fish are killed directly after catching it, in most cultures. its probably necessary diplomacy not to deny anyone his meal, especially as a foreigner. the entertainment you (maybe everybody) gets from watching animals die reminds me of the entertainment you could been buying in cambodia for 50 us-$ some years ago. firing a bazooka at a (living) cow that was, probably being a novelty for most peeps too. the chicken-vids you mentioned... please give a link. and the choice you mention, i hope it exists. but self-criticism is something that is seen with much higher regard in western culture than it is in others. and especially the konfuzian chinese have a very stable, hierarchy-obeying culture, being the basis for quite a few problems they had in the past. i definitely see many mistakes in western culture, but i also point out things that i feel are wrong in others. IMO animal rights are an achievement, like human rights. both being promoted mostly (even if in bigottery) by the west, probably being a result of our own cruel past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 That fish is undercooked. lol! That shit is fucked up. Why, China? Why? i see the point you're trying to make but i hope you can see how that's pretty different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impakt Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Sick sick sick sick sick. And that's coming from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosmachine Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 What makes us human?The ability to transmit cultural traits and abstract ideas from generation to generation. Dolphins do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 and chimpanzees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think a better interpretation of "Dominion" in the Bible y'alls was talking about--and I'm by no means Christian--is "stewardship." Stewardship connotes good management so that both parties propagate and you create harmony. This means to not fucking chop up creatures alive, pull their skin off alive, shove them in 20 to crate, let them stand around in their own shit, put them in concrete barracks that don't allow them to turn around, slit them open alive so you can eat the still beating heart, decimate populations of bears and tigers for hilarious child's play concepts of medicine with no scientific basis, kill one of the most amazing predators about whom we know little just for a couple kg. of its fin, put fucking ice skates on a bear and punish it until it skates, use long bullhooks to dig into the flesh of an elephant to make it rear up and stand on its hind legs, stuff chickens into barracks and throw them against the wall when your bored or spit chewing tobacco in its face, throw cinder blocks on pig's heads when they won't die, send cattle upside down to bleed out when they're not quite stunned from the bolt gun, tying a rope around a bull's cock and balls, which pisses him off so badly, that's what generates the "bucking" for all those yee-haw hayseeds. I've never had a single problem with what men do to each other because we are a sick, baseless creature. Growing up, I had this illusion that somehow animals would be spared our sickness but the opposite is true. There is no God or any Heaven that would have us...maybe Islam's got some room; the eastern religions wouldn't have us. -------------------------------- I think a better interpretation of "Dominion" in the Bible y'alls was talking about--and I'm by no means Christian--is "stewardship." Stewardship connotes good management so that both parties propagate and you create harmony. we are truly in a state of sickness ...we must first want to be healed it is important to be clear about these types of distinctions so we can be humane human beings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theSun Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i must say, i am genuinely amused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J3FF3R00 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 That fish is undercooked. lol! That shit is fucked up. Why, China? Why? i see the point you're trying to make but i hope you can see how that's pretty different Exactly. All meat is an animal that had to be killed. Boiling lobster alive is indeed cruel but it's not like you boil the majority of it and eat it while it is watching you. Put the thing out of it's misery ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gump Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i love fish and i am all for killing them and eating them but i have two issues here. 1. kill the goddam fish. 2. it's not even a proper fish, that is a carp of some sort, it's a course fish, course fish generaly taste very muddy, like eating mud. we tend not to eat them here in the u.k get a proper fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 troon: dominion according to the king james bible Exodus 21 [28] If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. [29] But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. Here's something that might make you think: http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp with a video for the ADD among us all (myself included!) dolphins and chimpanzees do not pass on cultural traits through generations. Fish and lobsters do not have concepts of misery, they have reactions to external stimuli. You lot still want to impose your cultural values upon others. Please note the difference here - I am not asking you to deep-fry your fish still living, nor am I asking you to go live in a culture which does. I'm simply asking you to think about what your judgments mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 there is a dichotomy though: we can understand the concept, a fish cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 wild chimps indeed invent distinctive types of tools within communities, and these tools get passed from one generation to the next as a kind of cultural legacy natural history pwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Fish and lobsters do not have concepts of misery, they have reactions to external stimuli. It's useless to draw a distinction. Do you think those reactions don't transmit pain? Don't you think that fish would want to escape if its muscles hadn't been crisped? The nervous system has been well conserved from the flatworms to the humans--don't kid yourself into thinking there is the dichotomy between "just a response" and what we would call "misery". No one is considering the biological facts of this discussion and are thus making hackneyed statements about culture relativism. It's really a lot easier than that. sometimes it's the simplest things that are the hardest to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yegg Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The restaurant is just flaunting how fresh their cuisine is, that's all. call me old fashioned, but i'd prefer to see a tank of live fish over a dodgy youtube video with sadistic undertones. Tanks are often just for show, it's not definitive proof of freshness! Also, it's just a fish. What meat producers do to more highly evolved animals in the West is many times more appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 there is a dichotomy though: we can understand the concept, a fish cannot. sounds so pretentious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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